Left-Libertarianism

I consider myself a left-libertarian. To avoid any confusion over what this may imply, I fully support private property, voluntary exchange, money, rent, employment, and so on (or more strictly speaking, I don't advocate their abolition). And I completely oppose the state. I advocate a free market in everything, from clothing and shelter to defense and arbitration. I have a dislike for people like Noam Chomsky, who I feel is largely economically illiterate and confused. I'm not a marxist or a communist or a syndicalist. Some may therefore be thinking, "so what's so 'left' about it? what differentiates you from 'right' libertarians? you sound like any other anarcho-capitalist to me!". I'd like to explain myself in order to make it clear that there is a very real distinction to be made.

Firstly, it is worth exploring how one views power in general. All libertarians, particularly market anarchists, oppose the power of the state. A lot of emphasis is placed on the power of the state and how it effects society. However, in my understanding, while the left-libertarian joins their comrades in opposing the state, they oppose the concentration of power and centralization in general. This includes the concentration or centralization of so-called "private power". While cookie-cutter anarcho-capitalists make brilliant arguments against state power, they tend to specialize so much in doing so that they may neglect the problems with the concentration of "private" power. Their libertarianism is "thin" in the sense that it is restricted to anti-statism.

The cookie-cutter anarcho-capitalist often seems to act as if whatever is "private" is legitimate in all respects. It's almost as if the principles somehow magically don't apply when we are dealing with non-state organizations. But to use a simple example, a gang or mafia may be "private" but it certainly is not legitimate. The left-libertarian views matters more broadly, that is, they apply libertarian principles not only to delegitimize the state but also to any other group of "private" people who violate rights. The left-libertarian's libertarianism is "thick" in the sense that it is more than just a matter of anti-statism, it is more broadly a matter of anti-authoritarianism and anti-centralization. The left-libertarian may additionally oppose corporations, extremely large buisinesses and possibly even organized religion. The left-libertarian sees no good reason why buisinesses should be centralized.

Karl Hess once described "the right" as supporting the concentration of power into the fewest hands possible, while in contrast "the left" stands for spreading it about as much as possible in an equilibrium. "The left" implies "equality of authority" in which everyone's freedom is limited by the like freedom of everyone else - a mere restatement of the non-aggression principle. Using this analysis, right-libertarians are to "the left" to the extent that they oppose the concentration of power in the hands of the state, but they nonetheless are still to "the right" to the extent that they still support private concentrations of power. While the right-libertarian may be consistantly anti-state, they are not consistantly opposed to the concentration of power. They may even fully endorse "private" concentrations of power and portray such organizations as victims of the state.

In short, the right-libertarian or cookie-cutter anarcho-capitalist, while they are likely fully aware and informed of the fact that we don't currently live in a free market or free society, functions as a "vulgar libertarian". What this means is that they function as apologists for big buisiness, corporations and currently existing conditions or property titles. They use free market theories or analysis to legitimize conditions and organizations that came about in a non-free market. They tend to cling to a worldview in which "big buisiness is America's most persecuted minority", as Ayn Rand once stated. They still tend to think of state intervention as somehow being inherently anti-buisiness, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The right-libertarian is essentially pro-buisiness more or less across the board without proper consideration for context. The left-libertarian calls them out on this.

Another difference between the left-libertarian and the right-libertarian is over what they think society will be like in the absence of the state. Cookie-cutter anarcho-capitalists essentially envision a society more or less identifical to currently existing society but without the state. But the left-libertarian sees much more broad implications that would seem to radically alter the organizational structure of a society. The left-libertarian does not think that the results of a free market would mirror current economic conditions by any stretch of the imagination. Left-libertarians may tend to think that free competition would function as a check on the general size of economic organizations, and therefore draconian large buisinesses simply couldn't survive or exist. They may also be tolerant of or more open to possible "socialistic" experiments within a free market, or advocate a signficant increase in self-employment over standard wage-employment.

The difference between the two sides can also be thought of in terms of how one's position relates to the traditions of the anti-authoritarian left, or how one views their own position in relation to it. It's partially a matter of historical context and the political spectrum. Right-libertarians buy into the cliche that socialism is inherently a statist/political system, while left-libertarians aknowledge the existance and possibility of voluntary or anarchistic socialism (in short, all they're really doing is taking an anarchist without adjectives approach). To the right-libertarian, all socialist forms of organization are inherently violent or political systems - all socialism is state-socialism. To the left-libertarian, there is a distinction to be made between state-socialism and genuinely libertarian socialism. The left-libertarian has a much greater degree of tolerance for "socialistic" forms of organization so long as they are voluntary, while the right-libertarian considers all "socialistic" forms of organization to be inherently involuntary.

There's a major difference in terms of where one finds their roots. To the right-libertarian, their philosophy derives from and grew out of the "old right" and the founding fathers of America. To the left-libertarian, their philosophy derives from and grew out of the old libertarian left (the mutualists, the individualist anarchists, the voluntaryists, etc.) and wouldn't exist without them. The left-libertarian sees market anarchism as having grown out of old non-state socialist traditions and is likely to see ideas such as mutualism as not really being that far off from their own position in the grand scheme of things. In contrast, the right-libertarian is largely out of touch with such roots and probably considers mutualists and other more voluntaristic socialists to be enemies. They see little to no connection between these ideas and contemporary market anarchism, where the left-libertarian does.

Another major difference is over strategy and where one thinks their true alliances lie. The left-libertarian is much more likely to be opposed to the political process and consequentially they may not vote, argue against running for office and regularly denounce the libertarian party and reformism. The left-libertarian is a radical and a revolutionary. In contrast, the right-libertarian essentially functions as a minarchist in practise as they regularly participate in the political process, encourage people to participate in it, run for office themselves and advocate reformist strategies. Comparatively, the right-libertarian is a gradualist and even counter-revolutionary. The right-libertarian more or less takes the exact same strategy that a minarchist would, and consequentially falls prey to political oppurtunism and get-liberty-quick schemes.

The difference over where one thinks their alliances are is also significant. Right-libertarians regularly ally with conservatives, particularly paleoconservatives. To the right-libertarian, conservatism is the closest thing to libertarianism on the political spectrum and conservatives inherently are less statist then "the left". They may even views themselves as an extension of the conservative movement. The left-libertarian, in contrast, wants nothing to do with conservatism and sees no reason why it should be regaurded as somehow less statist than "the left". The left-libertarian sees conservatives as hijacking the libertarian movement and employing quasi-libertarian rhetoric to get people to associate their own positions with liberty and free markets. To the left-libertarian, conservatism in the original sense of the term is the polar opposite of liberty, as it stands for the status quo, the romantisization of the past and an endless sea of authoritarian tendencies.

From the perspective of the left-libertarian, sometimes the right-libertarian takes positions on current issues that in fact are conservative rather than libertarian. One of the most common cases of this is over the issue of immigration, in which right-libertarians essentially support restricting people from crossing political borders. To the left-libertarian, this merely grants legitimacy to the state and treats it as if it were a legitimate private property owner. The same is true of many so-called "privatization" schemes in which the state sells "its" property off to a single economic organization, essentially transfering from a state held monopoly to a private monopoly. The left-libertarian is much more skeptical of so-called "free market" reforms than the right-libertarian is, being much more likely to consider them manifestations of mercantalism or corporatism.

Another difference between the two may simply be a matter of cultural traits or preferances. Right-libertarians may often be strict "cultural conservatives" and therefore have traits such as opposition to multiculturalism, feminism and secularism. They may openly praise "the family", "the church" and "the nation". In contrast, the left-libertarian is much more likely to see these things such as multiculturalism and secularism as being good and support voluntaryist versions of them. The left-libertarian may add things such as anti-racism and anti-patriarchy to their agenda, and such things need not be imposed by the state but a result of voluntary efforts. And while many right-libertarians may tend to praise "the family", the left-libertarian may very well be skeptical about the organizational structure of many families and view them as abusive. And perhaps most importantly, the left-libertarian is not a nationalist.

It should be clear at this point what the left-libertarian is not: they are not vulgar libertarians, conservatives, in bed with conservatives, anti-immigrationists, reformists, extreme gradualists, and so on. It is likely (although not necessarily mandatory) that they are not racists, organized religion supporters, nationalists, chauvenists, and so on. The left-libertarian is not an apologist for "private" concentrations of power and corporations. The left-libertarian may very well oppose corporations. In short, the left-libertarian has distanced themselves from conservative traits as much as possible and view themselves as supporting liberty in a much more broad sense than your cookie-cutter anarcho-capitalist does. It is in the context of this much more broad perspective that they are to "the left" of their comrades.

Comments

# Cork said on 26 May, 2008 05:24 PM

I have called myself a left-Rothbardian before, but I am starting to think I’m just a plumb-line anarcho-capitalist (something like Walter Block).  I have my disagreements with both the paleos and the left-libertarians.

First off: I’ve never understood why businesses have to be small, or why smaller businesses are inherently better than bigger businesses.  In the end, a business is just a group (or network) of *individuals* trading as they see fit.  Thus, “small” or “big” business is just an illusion.  Yes, they will most likely be smaller to some degree, but we would not be living in a society of dinky little worker co-ops like some mutualists think.

Independent contractor jobs are going to be too difficult/insecure for much of the population, and worker cooperatives are inferior to capitalist firms (as blunt and un-PC as it is, it’s the truth).  If by “voluntary socialism” you mean people setting up co-ops and communes with their own property, then I agree it can exist.  But I’ve never met a socialist who advocates anything like that---except maybe Carson, if he counts as a socialist.  And many paleoconservatives are a gazillion times more libertarian than the left.  

While I’m not a cultural conservative at all, I don’t think the Hoppean libertarians really a problem if they aren’t advocating aggression.  I think they’re wrong on secularism, natural rights, etc but if they want the same thing I do, then they’re allies.

FYI: I’m a big fan of your blog, even though I sometimes disagree. ;)

# Cork2 said on 26 May, 2008 05:56 PM

"I have called myself a left-Rothbardian before"

The word "left-Rothbardian" is a neologicism.

"I don’t think the Hoppean libertarians really a problem"

They are anti-immigrationists who use crackpot arguments against immigration, such as "private property borders". However, the "illegal" immigrants can just fly over or just pay the owners to cross the "private property borders." This implies that Hoppeans are incredibly stupid at arguing, and their stupidity is confirmed by their childish belief of religion.

Right-libertarians are just ideological dreamers of their version of society, without thinking if their ideology can be really implemented. They are intolerant of other cultures and religions because they are just idealists who cannot handle any imperfections that contradict with their ideology.

But I tend to see Brainpolice associate all left-libertarian positions with those positions that coincide with Brainpolice. Brainpolice also tends to overemphasize dichotomies like left/right, egoism/altruism, etc. Not all of them fits in dichotomies and I see the utilization of dichotomies as emotional. Brainpolice labels every position that he disagrees on as "right-libertarian" and tend to label every position that he agrees on as "left-libertarian". Not all positions that left-libertarians disagree on are "right-libertarian."

But the definition of "right-libertarianism" is a subjective phenomenon that are be defined by left-libertarians. True "right-libertarians" do not identify themselves as "right-libertarian" because the definition of right-libertarianism is corrupted by left-libertarians by associating the word "right-libertarianism" with negative connotations such as racism, misogynism, etc.

But right-libertarians are not actually libertarians, so I cannot see why some define left-libertarians classify right-libertarians as "libertarian." It would be better if left-libertarians just call replace the word "right-libertarianism" as with "statism", "monarchism" or "idealism".

# Cork said on 26 May, 2008 06:01 PM

As far the left/right debate goes...anarcho-capitalism is generally recognized as being on the libertarian right.  

There isn't a shred of compulsory egalitarianism, collectivism, democracy, or communism in it, which is why I wouldn't put it on the left.  It's also obviously not on the authoritarian right (with Nazism, neo-conservatism, protectionism, theocracy, or monarchy).  

I have come to consider anarcho-capitalism a branch of libertarianism, rather than a branch of (historical- classical) anarchism.  Anarchism is brain-dead anti-capitalism and nothing more.

# Cork said on 26 May, 2008 06:10 PM

Cork2,

“They are anti-immigrationists”

Good point.  Immigration is one area where some of them fall short of the NAP.  And all I can do is laugh when they say there would be less immigration.  In reality, business owners would be flying immigrants over here one plane after another.  They would be paying for transportation by the truckload.

“Right-libertarians are just ideological dreamers of their version of society, without thinking if their ideology can be really implemented. They are intolerant of other cultures and religions because they are just idealists who cannot handle any imperfections that contradict with their ideology.”

Yeah, they can certainly be neanderthals on cultural issues (by right-libertarians, I assume you mean culturally conservative libertarians), but they still tend to be fairly strong libertarians. As you said, some are wrong on immigration, which is unfortunate.

# Brainpolice said on 27 May, 2008 06:26 AM

"As far the left/right debate goes...anarcho-capitalism is generally recognized as being on the libertarian right."

True, and I object to that, because I don't identify with "the right" at all - and my favorite "anarcho-capitalists" are all very...well..."leftist" in comparison to most anarcho-capitalists (like Roderick Long). I think that contemporary market anarchism is just individualist anarchism + a subjective theory of value and theory of time preferance - and individualist anarchism was clearly on "the left" in its historical context. To me, there are certain traits of "the right" that take it outside of the realm of any anarchism at all.  

"I have come to consider anarcho-capitalism a branch of libertarianism, rather than a branch of (historical- classical) anarchism.  Anarchism is brain-dead anti-capitalism and nothing more."

This is where my view of my roots differ. I think that the roots of contemporary market anarchism can be found in more traditional anarchism like the individualists and mutualists. I honestly don't think that contemporary market anarchism differs that much from mutualism. I think that the vitrolic and fiery attacks between market and social anarchists largely consists of semantics and misunderstandings. While social anarchists often attack us as not being anarchists at all, I see us as being totally in line with anarchist tradition, only having evolved past some of the old cliches in some ways.

# Brainpolice said on 27 May, 2008 06:30 AM

"And many paleoconservatives are a gazillion times more libertarian than the left."

I take issue with this statement. The way I see them, most paleoconservatives are a bunch of white nationalists and closet monarchists. Fascists even. Maybe a soft version of that at best. I see the genuinely anti-authoritarian left as being far more libertarian than the paleo-conservatives.

# Brainpolice said on 27 May, 2008 06:36 AM

"But I tend to see Brainpolice associate all left-libertarian positions with those positions that coincide with Brainpolice. Brainpolice also tends to overemphasize dichotomies like left/right, egoism/altruism, etc. Not all of them fits in dichotomies and I see the utilization of dichotomies as emotional. Brainpolice labels every position that he disagrees on as "right-libertarian" and tend to label every position that he agrees on as "left-libertarian". Not all positions that left-libertarians disagree on are "right-libertarian.""

Maybe I haven't been clear enough. I'm not saying that one has to support multiculturalism, feminism or secularism to be a left-libertarian. I am saying that the left-libertarian is probably more likely to have those traits though. And the left-libertarian understands libertarianism in a historical context that is a bit more friendly to "the left". Someone isn't a "right-libertarian" merely for disagreeing with me about a few things. They have to fall into a fairly broad worldview that I disagree with.

What I consider to be "right-libertarian", cultural issues aside, is a world-view that considers libertarianism itself to be part of "the right", sees conservatives as "natural allies" against the evil "left" and falls into the trap of certain cliches of "the right" (particularly vulgar libertarianism). People like Hoppe and Lew Rockwell are very clearly "right-libertarians", due to more than just their cultural preferances.

# jtucker said on 27 May, 2008 07:43 AM

I used to be sure that right libertarian described me perfectly but I've begun to suspect that the meaning of this term has changed in the Bush years. I now associate right libertarianism with nationalism and pro-war attitudes as well as a relentless anti-immigration feeling, and perhaps even some theocratic tendencies. In this case, no way, and I can't embrace the term. However, left-libertarianism bugs me with its anti-corporate strain and Jacobin tendencies toward social leveling, believing that all inequality is a result of the state. This is really wrong headed too.

So, in the end, perhaps plumb-line libertarian is about the best description. It seems less subject to changed meanings that the left/right designation.

# Brainpolice said on 27 May, 2008 08:24 AM

I wouldn't say that all economic inequality is the result of the state, but I do think that perhaps counter-intuitively economic conditions would actually be more egalitarian in the absence of the state. I don't think you'd see huge class divisions like we basically have now. While Marx's class analysis is incorrect in many ways, I do think that we live in a class society.

I largely agree with Walter Block's "plumb-line" approach but I nonetheless side a bit more with the left-libertarians. Although, the way I'm defining my terms, a left-libertarian (by which I don't necessarily mean to refer to, say, anarcho-syndicalists or anarcho-communists) basically is a plumb-line libertarian, while some of the people I consider "right-libertarians" are comparatively, well, moderate I guess.

# scineram said on 27 May, 2008 11:34 AM

Well then you are inconsistent. Lew considers himself anarchist, hardly moderate.

# Brainpolice said on 27 May, 2008 02:33 PM

How am I being inconsistant? I know that Lew is an anarcho-capitalist. What I'm saying is that many anarcho-capitalists are often quite "moderate" when it comes down to it. My reasoning for this is because they don't extend their view much beyond anti-statism and sometimes end up functioning as apologists for buisiness. And from time to time certain anarcho-capitalists take positions on certain issues that makes them function as minarchists rather than anarchists.

# Cork said on 27 May, 2008 08:50 PM

“I think that contemporary market anarchism is just individualist anarchism + a subjective theory of value and theory of time preferance - and individualist anarchism was clearly on "the left" in its historical context.”

The subjective theory of value and time preference make a colossal difference, though.  Without them, you’ve got the tired Marxist exploitation theory that capitalists steal “surplus value” from the workers.  That is a pretty enormous, crucial deviation, don’t you think?  

Anyway, mutualism is the only “leftist” philosophy I’m aware of that doesn’t advocate a full blown collectivist dictatorship, and it is not a very major or well known one.

“I honestly don't think that contemporary market anarchism differs that much from mutualism.”

Mutualists (the 2 or 3 that still exist) believe in the same silly exploitation theory that Marxists do, so that is a pretty huge difference from contemporary market anarchism.   This isn’t some petty misunderstanding over semantics.  They are opposed to capitalism, whether statist or completely free-market.      

And what do you mean by “anti-authoritarian left?”  All leftist political theories advocate communal control over all people and resources (yes, mutualism may be an exception, but it’s an extreme rarity).  I’ve never met a leftist who wasn’t a wannabe dictator.

# rothbardian said on 27 May, 2008 10:16 PM

A debate over a libertarian spectrum of left versus right seems mostly distracting. There have been times when the term left-libertarian and right-libertarian have been applied in which the definitions of these terms meant almost the opposite (minus cultural preference) as they have been applied here in this post. At LRC, for example, the term left-libertarian has been used on those who are pro-war and those who support the centralization of governmental power. If we apply the term right-libertarian to LRC, then it is hard to say that they think “big business is America's most persecuted minority.”

What really matters, it seems, is if an individual passes the Walter Block test of a plumb-line libertarian. Does the “right” fall into bad habits? Perhaps. But, as Tucker has said, so does the “left.” Plumb-line libertarianism should straighten both out. Saying that we are “left” or that we are “right” just adds to confusion.

But, I am curious. Who exactly are all of these Hoppeans, as a replier indicates, who daydream about their purest, utopian society without thinking if it can ever happen? Hasn’t Hoppe written about the need for a strategy of secession and about personal withdraw from government? Now I am someone who would probably be defined as on the “right” in cultural preferences, but I am not idealist (and I doubt Hoppe is or that his supporters are). Plus I doubt you could find any serious person who thinks everyone would have the same culture or (absurdly enough!) the same religion. What Hoppe seems to indicate, is that a free civilization would have a multitude of different kinds of associations.

# Brainpolice said on 27 May, 2008 10:55 PM

"The subjective theory of value and time preference make a colossal difference, though.  Without them, you’ve got the tired Marxist exploitation theory that capitalists steal “surplus value” from the workers.  That is a pretty enormous, crucial deviation, don’t you think?"

It's a difference in economic theory, not means. So long as they don't advocate political means, it's fairly trivial actually. Genuinely voluntary socialists actually tend to think that the outcome of a free market would reflect an LTV, not that the LTV implies that something should be imposed. The LTV, while a wrong theory, does not necessarily imply support for political means. And political vs. voluntary means is what truly matters.

"And what do you mean by “anti-authoritarian left?”  All leftist political theories advocate communal control over all people and resources (yes, mutualism may be an exception, but it’s an extreme rarity).  I’ve never met a leftist who wasn’t a wannabe dictator."

"The left" has always had anti-authoritarian tendencies. Traditionally, it is "the left" who has most often been opposed to war, militarism, nationalism, racism and chauvenism. Those are all forms of authoritarianism worth opposing and I'm not aware of a broad group of "rightists" who oppose them. In fact, traditionally it's best the "rightists" who support them the most.

The statement that "all leftist political theories advocate communal control" is simply false once one realizes that the entire tradition of individualist anarchism is part of "the left". It seems to me that the implication of your worldview is that "the right" is somehow inherently anti-statist or anti-authoriarian, at least in comparison to "the left". I don't buy that at all.  

# Brainpolice said on 27 May, 2008 11:00 PM

"What really matters, it seems, is if an individual passes the Walter Block test of a plumb-line libertarian."

The way I define my terms, a left-libertarian IS a "plumb-line libertarian", while a right-libertarian isn't quite plumb-line enough and comparatively "moderate" in both the content of their position and their strategy for liberty. The left-libertarian is much deeper in "the plumbline" because their anti-authoritarianism is broader than just anti-statism. They are "thick libertarians".

"What Hoppe seems to indicate, is that a free civilization would have a multitude of different kinds of associations."

Then why does his openly stated worldview appear to rather blatantly advocate extreme homogeniety when the implications of a free society are supposed to actually be pluralistic?

# Cork said on 27 May, 2008 11:48 PM

Brainpolice,

"It's a difference in economic theory, not means. So long as they don't advocate political means, it's fairly trivial actually. Genuinely voluntary socialists actually tend to think that the outcome of a free market would reflect an LTV, not that the LTV implies that something should be imposed."

Fair enough, but that still amounts to a gigantic philosophical difference, even if it doesn't amount to a big difference politically.  One group thinks capitalists exploit workers, the other doesn't.  That is a pretty important difference, no?  

""The left" has always had anti-authoritarian tendencies. Traditionally, it is "the left" who has most often been opposed to war, militarism, nationalism, racism and chauvenism."

This arguing is a little pointless.  Sure, all those things are bad, and it's generally (but not exclusively) the right that loves them.  But as a matter of basic, modern terminology, ancap (if it can even be placed on the political spectrum) would generally be considered as part of the libertarian "right."  "Left-wing" today means collectivism, democracy, radical egalitarianism and so on.  

"The statement that "all leftist political theories advocate communal control" is simply false once one realizes that the entire tradition of individualist anarchism is part of "the left"."

Yes, I explicitly acknowledged that, and said individualist anarchism is a rarity and a lesser known "left" philosophy.  It is a political enigma, in that it buys into the exploitation theory but still endorses a quasi-capitalist market economy.  

"It seems to me that the implication of your worldview is that "the right" is somehow inherently anti-statist or anti-authoriarian, at least in comparison to "the left"."

No, not at all.  There are plenty of bad guys on the right.  I'm just saying that most people would put ancap on the *libertarian* right, if it can be placed on the overly simplistic left-right spectrum at all.  This is because it is extremely individualistic, pro-market, etc.  Those things are associated with the "right" today.

# Brainpolice said on 28 May, 2008 02:07 AM

Well I'm saying that to place it on "the right" is simply to buy into the false paradime of modern politics. Why allow the contemporary political spectrum to misrepresent us? I don't consider myself to be part of "the right" at all. I'm actually insulted by people characterizing me as a conservative or a "right-wing anarchist". I'm saying that what "most people" think about the political spectrum is simply wrong and I refuse to allow myself to be mischaracterized by it.

# Brainpolice said on 28 May, 2008 02:09 AM

The problem is that I don't consider myself to be a part of "the right" and to buy into that characterization is simply to allow the false definitions of current politics to falsely peg us. In fact, I'm insulted when "leftists" characterize me as some kind of convervative or "right-wing anarchist". Why allow the false spectrum of contemporary politics to mischaracterize us? What "most people" think about the political spectrum is wrong. I will do everything in my power to make it clear that I am NOT a part of "the right" and I want absolutely nothing to do with it. I don't want contemporary politics to paint me, a square peg, into a round hole that I don't fit.

# Nitroadict said on 28 May, 2008 12:32 PM

Here Here, BP.  

Perhaps a different term might be appropriate for left-libertarianism then?

Of course, that would just add to the words, which probably wouldn't help at this point, unless the new word / term was linguistically clear enough to be different, I suppose.

# Cork said on 28 May, 2008 08:19 PM

"In fact, I'm insulted when "leftists" characterize me as some kind of convervative or "right-wing anarchist".  "

Same here.  But after all of the (astoundingly vicious) abuse I've taken from the left over years of politely trying to connect with them, I have basically just given up and said "screw it."  I refuse to suck up to these morons and prefer to simply mock them. Frankly, they're the biggest group of losers on the planet--which is where all the 'egalitarian' bs comes from.  I've come to enjoy being denounced by them, to be honest.

If all you're saying that you prefer to think of yourself as being on the Tucker-Spooner "left," then I can understand and sympathize.  Maybe you could make a post showing the left-wing roots of market anarchism, if that is what you are saying.  That could be interesting.

# Cork2 said on 02 June, 2008 06:00 PM

True democracy, without the constraints dictatorialy imposed by the Constitution, would inevitably lead to chaos. But that does not imply that dictatorship is better. Dictatorship is a monopoly imposed on everyone, by force. An right-wing dictatorship use

wars such as force to restrain competition, thus implying that left-wings' opposition to wars would render prosperity by competition. However, the left-wings' forced collectivist control of the state would hinder competition no matter how many rival states competing. True competition can only exist with the right to private property controlled by a single individual, which means the right to discriminate and impose the views of a single individual on everyone. Thus, this might be equated to a voluntary dictatorship by some, but competition and respect of private property, unlike the unilaterally imposed coercive dictatorship by right-wing governments, would excel utility unlike any right-left dichotomy.

True anarchists do not identify to the left nor the right. They all have disagreements--leftists view that voluntary racism cannot exist and rightists view that voluntary socialism cannot exist. But they all have the same belief--those inharmonous views are based on emotion gut-feeling reactions. They believe in the same thing, but use labels that have ambiguous and emotional connotations. All dichotomies have paradoxes.

# Brainpolice said on 04 June, 2008 03:26 PM

In the original meaning of the word (not the majoritarian or electoral politics one), anarchism IS democracy. It is a voluntary participatory market democracy. In either case, I don't see what inspired this comment on democracy or what it has to do with anything previously stated.

# cork-2 said on 05 June, 2008 02:36 PM

These ideas that the left and right fit exactly together, as Brainpolice commented.

Rightists are mainly hereditarians, who believe that genes have a large impact of living beings. They believe that the current wealth distribution and social inequality stems from the genetic impact of groups. They are more likely to not give a *** about the poor because they believe that it is genetic. They are also more likely to be racist because they are genetic determinists and that the current racial inequality is purely genetic. They are more likely to defend the current status quo just because they think that our current inequalities are "natural," caused by the genetic differences.

Leftists are mainly environmental determinists, who deny that genes have a large impact. Thus, they are more likely to support the working class and racial minorities because they believe that these inequalities are evironmentally determined, such as influenced by state oppression. They are less likely to defend the current status quo.

Because of their anger of the current status quo, they would apply their anger to do radical counter-economic strategies. Rightists are more likely to support the status quo so they do not want to do radical things, and stick with reforms.

Religion does not have a large correlation with the belief in whether genes have an impact. In fact, most religious people believe in creationism, so they are less likely to hold this idea of genes.

People of all religions and atheists can have conservative views. Racial minorities in the United States are more likely to be atheist so they oppose religion in politics. Also, almost all whites are religious. So associating religion with conservatism is an Americanism. Not all types of conservatives are religious. But religion has a high correlation with the belief in values that do not change, so religious people are more likely to believe in social conservativism.

Leftists are more likely to be freethinkers because they are more open-minded to research about anarchism. They are more likely to change their moral values so they would be more tolerant to change in state religion.

The true definitions of conservatism is opposing change, and the word liberal is opposing the current status quo because they disagree with it. They do not have anything to do with religion, hereditarianism, per se.

# cork-2 said on 05 June, 2008 03:12 PM

Correction -- genetic determinists are more likely to support conservatism, not the other way around.

But my point is that Brainpolice seems to classify all "rightists" as racist, religions, etc. That is a form of collectivism.

Religious people are more likely to support social conservatism, but that does not mean that they support conservatism, as a whole. There are many socialist religious people.

Also, Brainpolice attempts to assume that people can be both religious and genetic determinists at the same time. But correlation does not imply causation. These two groups are people are entirely different; they just support the the same conservatism.

Almost all racists are white. Almost all whites are religious. Therefore, you assume that these two variables, such as religion and racism are correlated. But religious whites tend to oppose racism and some racists believe in evolution. Brainpolice seems to arbitrarily associate all the connotaions with rightists. That is not true. This is an overgeneralization. In fact, Germany's policies in the 1930s are quite liberal, by definition.

What I commented is that not all ideologies nicely fit together in a dualistic "dichotomy." Brainpolice seems to be collectivist when associating all ideologies in only two groups.

# cork-2 said on 05 June, 2008 03:27 PM

Brainpolice also seems to agree on a political *spectrum*, which implies that paleoconservatism is "less" rightist than neoconservatism; and that minarchism is "less" harmful than big government. But mall governments tend to get corrupt and turn big. So believing in the political spectrum is equivalent to believing in reforming.

There is no "spectrum" of anarchism; and It is clearly black and white. Support it or oppose it. Peroid. There is no "moderate" position such as minarchism.

# cork 2 said on 05 June, 2008 03:42 PM

Those who support political borders are economically ignorant. However, other people that support political borders belief in cultural superiority. (cultural imperialism) Social conservatives are more likely to support political borders to preserve their culture. They support political borders only because they believe that their religion is superior. They oppose godless foreigners promoting atheism.

Only a tiny fraction of those who support borders are racists. So Brainpolice's attempt of using empirical reasoning to find a correlation between racism and religion is flawed. Empirical reasoning is bad.

# Faithkills said on 16 October, 2009 06:36 PM

necromancy ftw

It may be that many 'right' libertarians believe that a free market will cause things to be more or less the same but with more 'freedom'. Personally I see the result of truly free markets as being not just the best, but only, possible means of addressing things like income de-diversification.

So I guess I would say.. if you agree on method with 'right' libertarians but not on the expected result that (you think) they desire.. why quibble?

I also think you underestimate economic and otherwise serious libertarians in not understanding the results of true freedom, should it be attained, and that they don't desire those results.

One very big reason I am anti-state is because I am anti-big business, and anti oligarchy. We've experimented enough with the results of increasing the state to accomplish those ends. We know it doesn't work.

So unless you propose to figure out new and clever ways to use the state to curtail other aggregations of power, as opposed to freedom that 'right' libertarians think they want, then I find myself very much agreeing.

But I wouldn't care to call myself right or left. Both of those words are artifacts democracy.