Hello. I'm a Marxist. I hate everything you stand for, and I'm aware that the feeling is mutual. However, in the course of one of my many debates with one from your ranks, I was reminded once again of my own hypocrisy; after insisting that my opponent read Marx's "Capital" before speaking further on the subject of Marxian economics, that annoying homunculus in my head began nagging me once again for not having read Austrian economics.So. I'm here in the camp of my enemies to ask a favor: Would you please point me to your counterpart, as it were, to "Capital"? Also, if you'll forgive another crude approximation, do you have a "call to arms" document, roughly comparable to the "Manifesto" in spirit and length (short)? I seek both theory for the brain and fire for the belly, to get a reasonably rounded beginner's grasp on the Austrian School.Thank you. And don't worry, I don't intend to pester you in your house. I'm well aware of how annoying that is.
I'm just a guy lurking around here, but I'd say the Austrian counterpart to Marx' Capital is Mises' Human Action. The most famous Austrian attempt to refute Marx would probably be Mises' Socialism. But that's just my take.As for your second question, I'll have to leave that to someone more knowledgeable to answer.
Try any of the basic pamphlets by Rothard. But if you want an article that destroys Socialism, try Mises' regarding the calculation problem.
"The power of liberty going forward is in decentralization. Not in leaders, but in decentralized activism. In a market process." -- liberty student
so you openly admit that logos (theory for the brain) is not enough and you require pathos (fire for the belly). the reasoned arguments demonstrating flaws in your reasoning you may find here aren't enough and you resort to ethos (authoritative sources) and think that we should do the same.
I say thee nay.
A bad argument is a bad argument. Do you expect that someone will take the time to read up on your position after seeing that you obviously have and yet can't present a coherent picture of it? Anytime I argue libertarianism with someone and they don't wind up much closer to my position at the end of my conversation than at the start I always regard that as MY failure. Failure to tailor the information to them, failure to answer all their objections, failure to achieve my goal. Only once they agree with me do I send them off for more material. To do otherwise is to expect others to do my work for me.
LadyAttis I agree with you completely, but the problem is that in debating marxists you aren't going to find many who have a rigorous understanding of the labor theory of value. As originally concieved it is laughable. More robust versions have been developed by the marxist school, but of course even the most robust runs into the calculation problem. My technique therefore is too first disavow the marxist in question of any "toy" versions of Labor Theory first, this will often be enough. If they come back with a more logically consistent version you then know that they are capable of more subtle reasoning and can hit them with "heavy guns" so to speak. Otherwise you'll often be wasting your time.
Bohm-Bawerk's Capital and Interest comes to mind, there's an entire section devoted to demolishing the labor theory of value as put forth by Rodbertus, Marx, Sismondi, etc.
Other than that, as others suggested, Human Action and Socialism by Mises.
As for a Manifesto? 'Fraid there's nothing as epic and univerally regarded as The Communist Manifesto in this camp.
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David Z
"The issue is always the same, the government or the market. There is no third solution."
What brought you too Marxism exactly? And please stay. It's fun destroying fallacies... like the LTV. What do you know about the Austrian school, just off the top of your head?
The opposing text with the same caliber as Marx's "Capital", would have to be a comic book. "How an Economy Grows and Why it Doesn't ". That's what I would recommend if I was being spiteful. But in all serious obviously from my perspective it's far better... fun and learning combined, well worth checking out.
Human Action by Ludwig Von Mises would be the more in depth source / 'counterpart'. If you are serious about learning this, or Austrian Economics - you'll read it. Or Man, Economy and State by Murray Rothbard.
In terms of books that provide refutations of Marxism / Socialism etc.
Socialism by Ludwig Von Mises
Karl Marx and the Close of His System by Eugen von Boehm-Bawerk
Marxism Unmasked: From Delusion to Destruction by Ludwig Von Mises
Requiem for Marx by Yuri N. Maltsev
Resurrecting Marx by David Gordon
Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth by Ludwig Von Mises
And overall I would recommend a few choice readings (anything) from Rothbard, that I think might appeal to you.
Egalitarianism as a Revolt Against Nature Anarcho-Communism Freedom, Inequality, Primitivism, and the Division of Labor
If you'd like an outlining of Libertarian Ethics, look no further than - Ethics of Liberty by Murray N. Rothbard
The call to arms document would have to be, in my opinion:
For A New Liberty by Murray N. Rothbard
Also, funny this: "greedy" capitalists basically giving away every single book for free in pdf and audiobook on this site? SO selfish...
Try with Rothbard's "For A New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto".
NobodyYouKnow:I hate everything you stand for, and I'm aware that the feeling is mutual.
Hate is a pretty strong word. Find out what we believe and WHY, and then maybe hate won't be necessary.
NobodyYouKnow:I don't intend to pester you in your house. I'm well aware of how annoying that is.
By all means, return to ask questions if you have them.
NobodyYouKnow:So. I'm here in the camp of my enemies to ask a favor: Would you please point me to your counterpart, as it were, to "Capital"?
Conversion doesn't get any easier than this.