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Slavery and the State

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BrianAnderson Posted: Mon, Jul 12 2010 4:40 AM

Two questions.

1. Would slavery have existed without the consent of the state in the first place?

2. Would slavery have ended without the Civil War?

Feel free to voice your opinion or facts/statistics.

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MaikU replied on Mon, Jul 12 2010 5:46 AM

Slavery haven't ended it just changed its form.

"Dude... Roderick Long is the most anarchisty anarchist that has ever anarchisted!" - Evilsceptic

(english is not my native language, sorry for grammar.)

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Sieben replied on Mon, Jul 12 2010 7:20 AM

Ooo i'm going to be writing something soon on slavery and the state. Not specifically the civil war though, so I'll comment on that now.

The USA was the only nation to require a war to abolish slavery. One of many reasons for its stability in the south was the fugitive slave act. On paper, it seems like it wouldn't be a big deal, but slaves escaping across borders is how slavery collapsed in Brazil.

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Brian:

Two questions.

1. Would slavery have existed without the consent of the state in the first place?

2. Would slavery have ended without the Civil War?

Feel free to voice your opinion or facts/statistics.

Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism talks about this, how the State was totally needed to subsidize slave owners, because it wasn't profitable otherweise.

Also how the very reason the South lost the Civil War in the first place was because the North didn't have slavery, and was for that very reason an economic powerhouse compared to the backwards South.

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Smiling Dave:

  Politically Incorrect Guide to Capitalism talks about this, how the State was totally needed to subsidize slave owners, because it wasn't profitable otherweise.

In the Roman Kingdom/Republic/Empire, slavery also existed. Did the state had to subsidize slavery back then? 


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good q.

" In ancient Greece and Rome, slavery was
viewed as a temporary status as slaves were often encouraged to buy
their  freedom.  These  slave  systems,  like  the indigenous African
variety, could only be sustained through a continuous influx of  new
slaves obtained through war. " From a Mark Thornton article.

I'm also interested in more info.

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Here's Mises' explanation of why slavery is doomed:


"If  one treats men like cattle, one cannot squeeze out of  them more than
cattle-like performances.

But it then becomes significant that man is physi-
cally weaker than oxen and horses and that feeding and guarding a slave
is,  in proportion to the performance  to be  reaped, more  expensive than
feeding  and  guarding  cattle. When treated  as  a chattel, man  renders  a
smaller yield per unit of  cost expended for current sustenance and guard-
ing than domestic animals.

If  one asks from an unfree laborer human performances,

one must provide him with specifically human inducements.

If the employer  aims  at obtaining products which  in quality and quantity
excel those whose production can be extorted by the whip, he must interest
the toiler in the yield of  his contribution. Instead of  punishing laziness and
sloth, he must reward diligence, skill, and eagerness.

But whatever he may
try in this  respect, he will never  obtain  from a bonded worker,  i.e.,  a
worker who does not reap the full market price of  his contribution, a per-
formance equal  to that rendered by a freeman,  i.e.,  a man hired on the
unhampered labor market. The upper limit beyond which it is  impossible
to lift the quality and quantity of  the products and services rendered by
slave and serf  labor is  far below  the standards of  free labor.

In the pro-
duction of  articles of  superior quality  an  enterprise  employing  the ap-
parently cheap labor of  unfree workers can never stand the competition of
enterprises employing free labor. It is this fact that has made all systems of
compulsory labor disappear. "

He adds that historically, every single time slavery [or serfdom] was tried, it was an economic failure:

"Yet  the  fact that  the enterprises employing unfree labor would not be
able to stand the competition of  enterprises employing free labor was not
contested by anybody. On this point the eighteenth- and early nineteenth-
century authors on agricultural management were no less unanimous than
the writers of ancient Rome on farm problems.
"

Of course, would love to see more primary sources on this.

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MaikU:

Slavery haven't ended it just changed its form.

 
Beat me to it.
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What are the main reasons that the southern state seceded?

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Joe replied on Mon, Jul 12 2010 7:39 PM

tariffs for 1

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Can you explain/expand?

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