http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TskdiL_YqRw
the sodium fluoride literally comes from toxic waste.
So, why aren't everyones teeth destroyed if this is so bad and everyone is using it?
You should read about what long term exposure to Fluoride does to the physiology of the body.
Gipper:You should read about what long term exposure to Fluoride does to the physiology of the body.
Why not just answer my question? I have not read about what it does to the physiology of the body over a long period of time, but you did not know that when you posted. So I ask, again, why people's teeth aren't falling out from drinking water filled with flouride?
Please, understand I am not saying I believe or don't believe it is harmful. I'm posting through my own observations.
Yeah, what are the effects of using toothpaste with fluoride. What brand do you use for teeth?
So what? If the compound itself is isolated then it matters not a bit where it comes from. Fundamental misunderstanding of chemistry here I think. How scary is this to you then? Table salt *gasp* "comes from" explosive sodium metal, and poisonous chlorine gas. Better warn your friends and family!
This is not a defense of government fluoridation of the water supply. Just saying, if you're going to attack it do it intelligently.
Some fruits 'naturally' contain cyanide.
The mineral 'Iron' is essential for you only in minimal doses.
From a dental POV, from what I figured out by looking at lab tests. Fluoride helps only in certain doses with teeth.
I also seen tests that showed people with degrees of flouride exposure have lower IQ and more cases of really low IQ.
All Fluoride are not the same. Calcium Fluoride is relatively harmless but does not react with the body, so it does not have the dental benefit like sodium.
"
This is not a defense of government fluoridation of the water supply. Just saying, if you're going to attack it do it intelligently."
So what? that's it? sodium fluoride is toxic...the amounts they put in water is more than trace amounts. It offers absolutely no benefit to drink it, in fact, like you already realize, its toxic. Why waste resources to buy the toxic waste and add it to the drinking water?
why would you eat sodium cholride? why not eat real salt? why eat sodium chloride that has been stripped of all its nutrients and bleached?
limitgov, can you provide links to research showing that the amounts that people are ingesting from drinking water is toxic and harmful to the body?
"limitgov, can you provide links to research showing that the amounts that people are ingesting from drinking water is toxic and harmful to the body?"
I'll tell you what...why don't you show me a study that proves that drinking sodium fluoride is beneficial?
Why dont u both use gogol. Its what I did. "Fluoridation Long Term Effects"
limitgov:I'll tell you what...why don't you show me a study that proves that drinking sodium fluoride is beneficial?
Nah. You're the one claiming how horrible it is for people to consume so either share some of the reserach you've investigated or quit crying wolf already.
Sieben:Why dont u both use gogol. Its what I did. "Fluoridation Long Term Effects"
What did you find?
The best (semi-conspiratorial) explanation I've heard about fluoride is that sometime in the past, the industries which paid large amount of money disposing of the many toxic waste fluoride compounds successfully made a bunch of bogus studies and lobbying to get the government to take their trash for free, and dump it in the water supply. It also opened up the whole fluoride toothpaste industry.
I feel fluoride as a cavity deterrent is a big snake oil salesman trick, but I don't go as far as saying it's meant to reduce the population's IQ (edit: at least not anymore) or make them docile, etc., as that's a much more falsifiable theory.
Are you afraid of google?
Avoiding sites which are obviously political/biased, like nofluoride.com, I turned up the following
Fluoride is okay in medium doses but bad in high doses. It also sucks if u have kidney problems which a lot of people do
Its bad for babies
Skeletal FLUOROSIS
Basically it looks like if you're healthy its fine, but if you have anything like kedney or blood problems it could screw you.
In conclusion, this study confirms that fluoride accumulates in the brain and muscle of mice causing stress and inhibiting auto-oxidation mechanisms, thereby resulting in oxidative damage of neural and muscular tissues. Fluoride also inhibits enzymes involved in energy production, transfer, membrane- bound ion transport, and neurotransmission. Thus fluoride accumulation leads to cascading effects resulting in altered functions of brain and muscle. This study also shows that muscle is more susceptible to fluoride uptake than brain, which may be due to the blood brain barrier as well as differential sensitivity of various organs to fluoride toxicity.
A high fluoride intake was associated with a lower intelligence. No correlation was found between age and intelligence in the areas with a medium and severe prevalence of fluorosis. The effect of exposure to a high level of fluoride on intelligence may occur at an early stage of development of the embryo and infant when the differentiation of brain nerve cells is occurring and development is most rapid.
Wibee: In conclusion, this study confirms that fluoride accumulates in the brain and muscle of mice causing stress and inhibiting auto-oxidation mechanisms, thereby resulting in oxidative damage of neural and muscular tissues. Fluoride also inhibits enzymes involved in energy production, transfer, membrane- bound ion transport, and neurotransmission. Thus fluoride accumulation leads to cascading effects resulting in altered functions of brain and muscle. This study also shows that muscle is more susceptible to fluoride uptake than brain, which may be due to the blood brain barrier as well as differential sensitivity of various organs to fluoride toxicity. http://www.fluoride-journal.com/00-33-1/331-17.pdf A high fluoride intake was associated with a lower intelligence. No correlation was found between age and intelligence in the areas with a medium and severe prevalence of fluorosis. The effect of exposure to a high level of fluoride on intelligence may occur at an early stage of development of the embryo and infant when the differentiation of brain nerve cells is occurring and development is most rapid. http://md1.csa.com/partners/viewrecord.php?requester=gs&collection=ENV&recid=3927109&q=fluoride&uid=789382553&setcookie=yes various organs to fluoride toxicity.In conclusion, this study confirms that fluoride accumulates in the brain and muscle of mice causing stress and inhibiting auto-oxidation mechanisms, thereby resulting in oxidative damage of neural and muscular tissues. Fluoride also inhibits enzymes involved in energy production, transfer, membrane- bound ion transport, and neurotransmission. Thus fluoride accumulation leads to cascading effects resulting in altered functions of brain and muscle. This study also shows that muscle is more susceptible to fluoride uptake than brain, which may be due to the blood brain barrier as well as differential sensitivity of various organs to fluoride toxicity.
The lethal dose for fluoride in humans is 5mg/kg, and those rats were treated "with NaF (20mg/kg/body weight) for 14 days", so surely somethings gonna happen to them...
To have some perspective, the fluoride in the water is around 1ppm, or 1mg per 1 liter, which is what a person is expected to ingest a day. That's a bit far from the lethal dose for an adult, which should be around 400mg... though for a baby, it could be as little as 15mg, that without taking into consideration that the brain's under deveolpment, etc.
I think there's a lot of bad studies on both sides, that don't really prove anything (empirical criticism aside), and if anything, I think there's a bigger case to be made against fluoride in the question whether it should be added in the water in the first place (involuntary mass medication, morality, gunverment, etc.)
Edit: that chinese study may suffer from selection bias also. They've picked separate areas that may have had differences in IQ regardless of fluoridation due to other factors...
"Nah. You're the one claiming how horrible it is for people to consume so either share some of the reserach you've investigated or quit crying wolf already."
So, you have no idea why the government should be adding it to water?
As a libertarian, or a free market person, does that not seem like a waste of resources to you?
"So, why aren't everyones teeth destroyed if this is so bad and everyone is using it?"
plenty of people in the states get cavities and lose their teeth.
Fluoride in toothpaste I could maybe agree with, but fluoride in water is just ridiculous. The predominant effect of fluoride is topical, and it's a pretty poisonous substance to be ingesting casually. Also even if this "medicine" is right for certain people at certain times, medicating an entire population several times a day without their consent?! Why not put aspirin in the water, too? </s>
Why anarchy fails
To recommend a non-specific dosage of anything is quackery by the standards supposedly upheld by the medical associations. That's what it comes down to and that's what water supply fluoridation is.
US Safe Water Drinking Act. Testimony of Dr. J Wiliam Hirzy, Senoir Vice President Enviromental Protection Agency(EPA) Union>>>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRLz4a7lDVM