Free Capitalist Network - Community Archive
Mises Community Archive
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.

Does Walter Block really endorse of the positions in Defending the Undefendable?

rated by 0 users
Not Answered This post has 0 verified answers | 15 Replies | 2 Followers

Not Ranked
Male
80 Posts
Points 2,320
Turin posted on Fri, Nov 19 2010 11:00 PM

Does Walter Block really endorse of the positions in Defending the Undefendable? I mean he quotes Mill as  stating one should produce a counter argument to your own argument if none exists. Is he playing devil's advocate or does he really endorse all of the positions are is there a combination of endorsment and devils advocate?

Also if Walter Block is apposed to child abuse (rightly so I think) it seems to be at odds with his view on abortion (i.e. evictionism). If the the woman has the right to expel the tresspasser (fetus) even if it leads to the fetus' death, then why don't parents have rights to abuse their children? Does the mother own the fetus? If she does then do the parent's own their children'? If they do than given the woman's rights over her fetus don't they similar rights over their children?

  • | Post Points: 35

All Replies

Top 50 Contributor
Male
2,051 Posts
Points 36,080
Bert replied on Fri, Nov 19 2010 11:03 PM

There's already at least 5 abortion threads made in the past year it seems.  Browse them to see what had come of such topics...

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Male
2,124 Posts
Points 37,405
Angurse replied on Fri, Nov 19 2010 11:53 PM

Ask Dr. Block yourself.

"I am an aristocrat. I love liberty, I hate equality."
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 200 Contributor
445 Posts
Points 7,120
thelion replied on Sat, Nov 20 2010 12:00 AM

Children, as thinking beings, have self-ownership. A fetus is not a thinking being. Professor Block's distinction follows therefrom.

 

This is how I understand it, at least.

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 25 Contributor
Male
3,055 Posts
Points 41,895

What do you mean by positions?  The vocations that he defends?  He's defending civil disobedience.  That book seems to get a lot of negative review.  I don't get it.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 50 Contributor
2,491 Posts
Points 43,390

Infants are not thinking beings.

  • | Post Points: 35
replied on Sat, Nov 20 2010 4:17 AM

Children, as thinking beings, have self-ownership. A fetus is not a thinking being. Professor Block's distinction follows therefrom.
action axiom is a mysticist premise that rejects science in the first place, so you cant possibly reject it on a scientific basis.

  • | Post Points: 5
replied on Sat, Nov 20 2010 4:17 AM

Children, as thinking beings, have self-ownership. A fetus is not a thinking being. Professor Block's distinction follows therefrom.
action axiom is a mysticist premise that rejects science in the first place, so you cant possibly reject it on a scientific basis.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
7,105 Posts
Points 115,240
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

Xarthaz, how is talk of intentions mystic? How can you reject teleology when the only way others can understand "Xarthaz rejects teleology" is by their reliance on teleology?

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

  • | Post Points: 20
replied on Sat, Nov 20 2010 4:54 AM

i dont reject teleology, merely point out its incompatibility with science. The two dont mix, yet some austrians blatantly appeal to science as a justification of selective use of the mysticist concepts(aka cars dont act,animals dont act, computers dont act, etc).

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
7,105 Posts
Points 115,240
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

Do you have an argument that makes the case for incompatibility or are we to take it on faith?

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

  • | Post Points: 5
Not Ranked
Male
80 Posts
Points 2,320
Turin replied on Sat, Nov 20 2010 9:32 AM

"What do you mean by positions?  The vocations that he defends?  He's defending civil disobedience.  That book seems to get a lot of negative review.  I don't get it."

It seems unclear to me whether he is playing devil's advocate or does he really believe them. I mean legalizing 'Crying fire in a theater' if it inadvertently leads to the deaths of fellow theater goers seems a bit a callous.

Defending civil disobedience is not in and of its self unpalatable to be people perse, but say the legalization of blackmail and slander seem excessive. I mean would not a blackmail business arise, in the advent of legalization, which would proliferate and become a dead weight on society, it would produce nothing, but be a large financial drain on private firms, trying to pay them of.

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 500 Contributor
304 Posts
Points 5,160

Some animals certainly do act, and economize. They're rather stupid, though, which combined with their strong predispositions prevents them from being possible to integrate with the division of labor.

Computers don't act because they're not conscious. Consciosness and reasoning are not data, data is only data because there are thinking beings to interpret it. Human brains are computers, but they're not just computers. Features of it causally generate consciousness. Babbages machines do not.

...
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Male
2,051 Posts
Points 36,080
Bert replied on Sat, Nov 20 2010 9:48 AM

It would be better to ask Mr. Block yourself, but he seems to take people or actions that are generally frowned upon and puts it through the perspective of those who are the ones acting in said scenarios.  By doing this you may see these people/actions through a new light, and perspective you haven't thought of before, take Defending the Slumlord for example.  When he explains why slumlords exist, you get a new light on the subject, compared to someone just bashing slumlords without knowing why things are the way they are.

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 200 Contributor
445 Posts
Points 7,120
thelion replied on Sat, Nov 20 2010 10:25 AM

xarthaz

 

Action axiom and property are conception originally put forward by De Condillac (and De Tracy interpretted it as relating to property and self-ownership). Mises uses the idea to develop economics; he probably read both, since Menger and Jevons cited Condillac.

Most neuroscientists have a very high opinion of Condillac's treatise on sensations, if they not behaviorists (except in the Karl Lashley sense, who called himself behaviorist but is not really, so he's fine). Condillac had the first developed theory of reflexes, sensations, and behavior based on stimulus and response, and how the external world is interpretted by the brain (he used "soul" and "brain" interchangably). Most research in neuroscience is filling in the blanks of how the brain works more or less within his framework, even if authors themselves don't know it.

 

As far as action axiom itself, it is a logico-mathematical tool. As Jevons would say, it belong to the realm of science of science, where if science is recognizing A = B, then science of science is recognizing A = B .|. B = C => A = C.

  • | Post Points: 5
Page 1 of 2 (16 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS