This might do better in one of the OWS threads, but next week I might go out and join the local Occupy Virginia Beach protests with my girlfriend and other friends who have been going the past weeks (It's on Sundays and I have the day off those days, so why not).
If I do I might as well bring my own sign which would be more with my own liberterian input (sneaking some ideas in?) I have an idea for a double sided sign with a quote on both sides. I need something that isn't that specific and it's something everyone can agree with.
From Mises I have:
"Corruption is an evil inherent in every government not controlled by a watchful public opinion."
"The worst and most dangerous form of absolutist rule is that of an intolerant majority."
"The mixing of politics and business not only is detrimental to politics, as is frequently observed, but even much more so to business."
"Whoever wishes peace among peoples must fight statism."
From Hayek:
"In government, the scum rises to the top."
From Bastiat:
"Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
Edit - From Plato (since everyone should know his name):
"Whereas the truth is that the State in which the rulers are most reluctant to govern is always the best and most quietly governed, and the State in which they are most eager, the worst."
From those you can see what I'm aiming towards. Figure I could have one quote a person (but 1st and 3rd Mises' quotes I think everyone out there would agree with). Any suggestions?
I think the Bastiat quote is probably most appropriate. I also tend to like the one in the Star Trek video above. There's a few ways you could turn that into a sign quote.
A fave of mine,
"In every government on earth is some trace of human weakness, some germ of corruption and degeneracy, which cunning will discover, and wickedness insensibly open, cultivate and improve." --Thomas Jefferson
Keep it simple. The Bastiat quote wins, hands down. A great invitation for questions from the "demanders" and an opener for a discussion.
If I can get the materials and time before the next Occupy VB protest/gathering, I'll make the sign. Hopefully I can find some decent sized poster board, and paint it yellow with black font (wood handle, probably a 2 x 4 and maybe some smaller pieces of wood for support if it's windy - if I'm going to make a protest sign it's going to look like a capitalist made it). One side will be:
The mixing of politics and business not only is detrimental to politics, as is frequently observed, but even much more so to business.
- Ludwig von Mises, 1944
The other side:
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
- Frédéric Bastiat, 1848
I'm averse to that Mises quote because you're most likely going to be encountering people who are already against business, so it's not going to bother them much. I would think something like the "Whoever wishes peace among peoples" would be more appropriate. Or perhaps some (or some form) of one of these:
-Men, cooperating under the system of the division of labor, have created all the wealth which the daydreamers consider as a free gift of nature.
-The standard of living of the common man is highest in those countries which have the greatest number of wealthy entrepreneurs.
(I realize these may be more combative than you wish to come off, so more follow):
-The masses, in their capacity as consumers, ultimately determine everybodys revenues and wealth.
-To the grumbler who complains about the unfairness of the market system only one piece of advice can be given: If you want to acquire wealth, then try to satisfy the public by offering them something that is cheaper or which they like better. Try to supersede Pinkapinka by mixing another beverage. Equality under the law gives you the power to challenge every millionaire. It isin a market not sabotaged by government-imposed restrictionsexclusively your fault if you do not outstrip the chocolate king, the movie star and the boxing champion.
(of course you'd need to shorten or excerpt from this one)
You might find The Quotable Mises tool helpful for this.
The other 3 quotes I posted could work just as well, but I feel that quote specifically can relate to OWS without seperating the different political ideologies that people have who support and go to those protests. It seems pretty head one, the government is involved with business - bailing out banks, etc., and business is involved with government - lobbying for their interests, and it creates a problem on both ends. This seems to fit with some of the sentiment of the OWS protestors. I'll probably tell my friends who have been going how they feel about it
I have the Quotable Mises in PDF which is what I was going through, I assume the online version has all the same quotes. Too bad there's not a quotable Rothbard or Leonard Reed. I have tons of PDF's all from this site and I'd be damned to go through them all looking for something quotable.
I like the Bastiat quote. The Mises one is a bit off, because government obviously is showing favoritism to businesses.
Maybe something like "legalize capitalism" or one of these designs.
There is a very real antagonism between government and business but it's not what most people think - the antagonism is over how much revenues will be paid up to the government versus how much will be retained by the business owner himself or herself. Democrats are people who believe businesses should keep less of their own revenues and government should get more and Republicans vice-versa. Nobody disagrees with the principle of taxation or the principle of government force which is used to maintain the status quo.
Clayton -
Wheylous:Maybe something like "legalize capitalism" or one of these designs.
Yes. The other quotes are both way overlong for a sign and also incomprehensible to most of the OWS crowd, even the Bastiat one (even I hardly understand what he's trying to say!).
Maybe: "LEGALIZE CAPITALISM: Let failed businesses fail"
Why anarchy fails
@Bert -
Maybe some ting like this?
We are the soldiers for righteousnessAnd we are not sent here by the politicians you drink with - L. Dube, rip
AJ: even the Bastiat one (even I hardly understand what he's trying to say!).
even the Bastiat one (even I hardly understand what he's trying to say!).
AJ, read Bastiat's source essay (L'Etat) if you haven't already. The quote seems crystal clear and powerful to me -- extremely relevant to OWS.
Everything that Bastiat writes is clear and amazingly written. He's sort of like the French Ron Paul of his time.
The problem with some of the suggestions is that it's what you'd except to hear or see from a libertarian. Keep in mind OWS is a populace movement with many different views, and even though I might encounter libertarians I'd be around leftists more than others. Putting some obvious free-market capitalist rhetoric on a sign would cause seperation (and debates as well as a semantics battle I don't care to get into), but the common ground is corporatism. For the Mises quote I have, it's perfect, you have politics and business, it's short and to the point. When they work with one another it causes problems, with that statement alone people can agree. With the Bastiat quote one could bend it towards the same idea, banks and government working together benefiting each other (now, the people here take it more towards an anti-State slogan), but I could very well regard it to the banks getting bailouts as well. It's short statements anyone could and can agree with.
I'm not going to go out there and parade myself as a capitalist unless I'm asked (the quotes sort of open an invitation of asking), and if people out there know of Bastiat and Mises, great.
(To get an idea of the opposing views out there, I know a guy who considers himself a "post-left anarchist" (he sure as hell says it enough in conversations). He's just a leftist, the Chomsky type. He's anti-capitalist, and told me recently he felt Ron Paul was too "extreme" in his views, because he doesn't compromise his anti-State stance to make some "progress." (He believes some anarchist are too "dogmatic" because they don't compromise.) He also voted for Obama for the benefits of free birth control. Those are some of the people I'll encounter, so jumping into some openly pro-capitalist rhetoric is sort of throwing a wrench into an engine. I'll just take the wrench and fine tune the engine.)
z1235: AJ:even the Bastiat one (even I hardly understand what he's trying to say!). AJ, read Bastiat's source essay (L'Etat) if you haven't already. The quote seems crystal clear and powerful to me -- extremely relevant to OWS.
AJ:even the Bastiat one (even I hardly understand what he's trying to say!).
Also be sure and read Clayton's adaptation here...and the video of the final version toward the bottom of the first page.
I bought the supplies tonight, and now I'm thinking I might actually have to choose a shorter quote. At the max are the quotes I've chosen, so now I'm trying to find something a bit shorter (the Hayek quote now becomes on the top of the list).
Be humorous but without being a jerk.
"You can take my freedom but you cannot take my pork"
"More taxes for Wall Street, more welfare for me"
"I will fight to the death for other people's money"
The Bastiat Quote is perfect. Simple, to the point, powerful, and you may be introducing new people to Bastiat!
z1235: AJ: even the Bastiat one (even I hardly understand what he's trying to say!). AJ, read Bastiat's source essay (L'Etat) if you haven't already. The quote seems crystal clear and powerful to me -- extremely relevant to OWS.
I mean, I get what it's saying after a few moments' reflection, but I have to think it through each time to get at what he might be talking about specifically. And I've been thinking and studying about this stuff for a few years now. So I just doubt most people would get it fast enough for a poster, other than "the state is this kind of weird, contradictory thing."
Kakugo: "More taxes for Wall Street, more welfare for me"
This one is funny.
It reminds me of "everything for everyone and nothing for ourselves!".
One for all, and all for none.
Well now that just doesn't make sense.
Neither does statism! O_o
So I hear that liberty without brakes is menacing. Who is she menacing ? Who shall fear the untamed horse, but one who would tame it ? Who shall fear an avalanche, but one who would stop it ? Who trembles in front of liberty, but tyranny ? A menacing liberty... one ought to say it's the opposite. What is frightening in her is the sound of her irons. Once those are shattered, she is no more tumultuous; but calm and wise. – Anselme Bellegarrigue
'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael
''A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul''. George Bernard Shaw
“Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few.” George Bernard Shaw
'' The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.'' Stephen Hawking
Liberty Is Always the Absence Of Government
I'm working the kinks out with spacing, etc. I had to add a small lower portion (cut some board off the right of it and put on the bottom so I had room to put Mises). I want to color the words in with different colors so it stands out more. Still, this gives an idea of the size of the boards I'm working with and the stencils, so anything longer than that quote is not happening unless I combine these two poster boards together.
The yellow poster boards are 22" by 28" (the one above has been cut slightly), and I use a thicker white foam board as backing that's 20" by 30". If I combine the yellow ones I could have a 44" by 28" which might give me the space I need.
This board would probably be completely misunderstood and would match what 90% of the "99%" think and want:
The "1%" have enriched themselves through exploitation and greed, despite the watchful eye of the govt (which has NOT made them richer, btw, as the first half of the board proclaims). Now, said govt should make them poorer (as the second half of the board proclaims) for the benefit of the people.
That sort of made no sense at all to me. The emphasis should be put on the government, that it cannot make man richer, it cannot improve his wealth, but the opposite, it can only make him poorer and worse off. Now, putting Mises' name at the bottom with that quote will hopefully make someone interested in who he is, etc., and I can go from there.
I'm not sure how someone could take a...leftist sentiment out of that quote. If they agree and someone I don't know decides to talk to me, again, I can explain the quote further and who Mises is and his views.
Just as you say the 99% could agree with that quote the same could be said about the Tea Party.
“It all began, as usual, with the Greeks,”
"It is easy to be conspicuously 'compassionate' if others are being forced to pay the cost."
Murray Rothbard
Consider this the "fixed" and final of that quote. I guess I'll just wait til Sunday for reactions to it. Final size is 26" by 22".
"Socialism is Fascism" would have provoked a good deal of people.
You sign should say:
"I'm so angry, I made a sign."
Anenome's back! The resident ancap-masked-as-minarchist!
"END THE STATE!"
"TAXATION IS THEFT"
"More Government = More Taxation"
“It all began, as usual, with the Greeks." - Someone will think of the Greek revolution.
"I'm so angry, I made a sign." - This is honestly one of the better suggestions I've seen.
"More Freedom through Less Government". "Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice. Moderation in defense of Justice is no virtue" (Goldwater). Howsabout a double sider : "John Galt says 'No More Bailouts'" with "Who is John Galt?"
Wheylous: Anenome's back! The resident ancap-masked-as-minarchist!
Back? That site's been down for months for me--what URL do you guys use? >_>
The main prob I have with both labels is the 'anarchist' portion :P
I personally have an issue with the word "anarchist" too, except when I know it is being used explicitly in the anarcho-capitalist sense. The term "anarcho-capitalist" doesn't bother me at all, for whatever reason (except when I was a minarchist for a brief while). I also like the terms "Rothbardian" and "Libertarian." Not a big fan of the terms "Voluntarist" or "Classical Liberal" to describe myself, however.