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What problem do you guys have with consipracy theories?

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Caley McKibbin replied on Tue, Sep 8 2009 11:08 PM | Locked

If it was up to me, onebornfree would be banned.  There should be a limit to how much drugs members can use.

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Natalie replied on Tue, Sep 8 2009 11:08 PM | Locked

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

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Seph replied on Tue, Sep 8 2009 11:16 PM | Locked

Poptech:
ROFLMAO!!! This has to be the most idiotic comment yet on this forum. You are a clueless fool who needs to study the definition of words.

I could write the rest of my posts in Chinese, and it wouldn't really make any difference to you, would it?

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Poptech replied on Tue, Sep 8 2009 11:18 PM | Locked

Seph:
I could write the rest of my posts in Chinese, and it wouldn't really make any difference to you, would it?

If you write something idiotic, it is just as dumb in another language.

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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Seph replied on Tue, Sep 8 2009 11:27 PM | Locked

Poptech:

Seph:
I could write the rest of my posts in Chinese, and it wouldn't really make any difference to you, would it?

If you write something idiotic, it is just as dumb in another language.

A post lacking in substance, yet brimming with vitriol?!

Im absolutely shocked. Are you going to respond to my criticisms of your minarchist position, or is your constant ridicule sufficient evidence of my obvious idiocy? 

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AF replied on Tue, Sep 8 2009 11:43 PM | Locked

I think the main problem many on here have with conspiracy theories is that once you understand libertarian political theory, you already know the state is an inherently evil organisation, you know that it steals trillions of dollars of wealth every year and that throughout history states have killed countless millions. I suppose a lot of people just figure that once you're at this stage the benefit of uncovering a conspiracy theory becomes a very small part of the picture.

For example, your average person sees nothing wrong with the state, but would be outraged if, say, the government was responsible for 9/11. On the other hand your typical libertarian is already outraged at the actions of the state, and whether the 9/11 allegations are true or not has pretty much 0 impact on how they see the state.

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AJ replied on Tue, Sep 8 2009 11:46 PM | Locked

Exactly. Once you realize there is a monopoly on violence, the idea that some shadow group could possibly do something violent or evil becomes a nonconcern.

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onebornfree replied on Tue, Sep 8 2009 11:47 PM | Locked

Caley McKibbin:

If it was up to me, onebornfree would be banned.  There should be a limit to how much drugs members can use.

Crying

 

For more information about onebornfree, please see profile.[ i.e. click on forum name "onebornfree"].

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Natalie replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 9:38 AM | Locked

AJ:
Exactly. Once you realize there is a monopoly on violence, the idea that some shadow group could possibly do something violent or evil becomes a nonconcern.

The government claims that it has the legitimate monopoly on the use of violence. That doesn't mean that it can always stop someone else from doing just that. For example, the government steals half of you income supposedly to provide much needed services. However, that doesn't mean there're no other nefarious characters that might want to assault your person or property outside of government control.

And of course the government also doesn't like when someone challenges it's power which is what revolutionary militant groups like al Qaeda essentially does. That doesn't mean they're the puppets of any government or can't act independently.

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

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liberty student replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 10:45 AM | Locked

AJ:
Exactly. Once you realize there is a monopoly on violence, the idea that some shadow group could possibly do something violent or evil becomes a nonconcern.

This is false. 

Again, there is a failure to understand the nature of the state.  It doesn't rest on force.  It rests on consent.  Consent is gained through emotional manipulation, lies and the ever present threat of force.

The fact that the protector is the predator is an important thing to expose.   Exposing conspiracies, particularly deadly ones like information about how wars are ginned up, are key to success if one wants to have non-violent change towards peace in this world.

"When you're young you worry about people stealing your ideas, when you're old you worry that they won't." - David Friedman
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Conza88 replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 11:10 AM | Locked

liberty student:

fezwhatley:
Are you sympathetic with 911 truthers?

Sure I am.  The Lusitania has been exposed as a false flag.  The Bay of Tonkin was a false flag, and Operation Northwoods were similar plans to 9/11 for another false flag.  Why would anyone in their right mind believe the US government?   And why would anyone believe a commission that the statist insiders who chaired it, now says was totally subverted?

I don't know what happened on 9/11.  But I don't buy the (publicly) Austrian viewpoint that the government is just incompetent and not evil.  The claim that Bush could not have pulled of 9/11 because he is too incompetent, is destroyed by the fact he was able to fabricate a war against Iraq with false evidence and manufactured consent.

No, I don't think it helps Austrians to run around screaming 9/11 was an inside job, or acting like a bunch of Alex Jones idiot e-fanatics.  But at the same time, the whole thing stinks, from the way testimonies were falsified, no one was fired, and the engineering reports after years of study, still cannot justify the collapse of the 3rd building.  Not to mention the immediate removal of all forensic evidence for what should have been something thoroughly investigated.

fezwhatley:
Or you believe that even if someone is rabidly for conspiracy theories, they still can have a lot of credibility.

What is credibility?  Obama has credibility.  We do not.  He gets up there and blatantly lies to millions of people, and he's got credibility.

As far as conspiracy theories, do you mean the conspiracy theory that Cheney lied to the 9/11 Commission?  Or that hundreds of engineers, pilots, physicists and politicians internationally question the official 9/11 story?  Do you mean the conspiracy theory for a global currency?  Or a new world economic and political order?

What about the conspiracy theory that global warming is a myth?

Maybe you are talking about the bank conspiracy, to have a central non-governmental cartel assume control of the nation's currency?

Maybe you mean the Tuskeegee conspiracy where black men were infected with syphilis.  Or where the CIA experimented on Canadians in a Montreal hospital.  Is MK Ultra a conspiracy?  What about Operation Mockingbird?  Were the results of the Church committee hearings just a figment of our imaginations?  Did Barry Goldwater rail against the Trilateral Commission?  Did Reagan promise during the presidential primaries to investigate the Trilateral Commission if elected?  Was Eisenhower crazy when he warned about the military industrial complex?  Are these just figments of some conspiratorial fiction?

I guess next we're supposed to believe that the US government isn't monitoring all communications illegally and they do not kidnap people and send them to Syria to be tortured without due process...

Smile

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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twistedbydsign99 replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 11:20 AM | Locked

liberty student:
if one wants to have non-violent change towards peace in this world.

Indeed there is only one other alternative.

On an unrelated note, does anyone here truly believe that the towers were not demolished? I'm not saying by whom, but I haven't heard any good evidence against the fact that the towers were destroyed by controlled explosives. I don't mean the circumstantial evidence I mean the raw recorded physical evidence:

1. 2 110 story towers collapse at free fall speed.

2. An off center plane strikes cause 2 110 story towers to collapse close to within their own foot print

3. Jet fuel and 1 mechanical impact is enough to cause the entire tower to collapse, break thick steel beams into 10 foot sections, and pulverise concrete.

And anyone that doesn't think WTC7 was demolished... seriously? What are you smoking I need some.

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Conza88 replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 11:23 AM | Locked

Pay No Attention to That Man Behind the Screen by Butler Shaffer

Recorded 10/15/2004 at Radical Scholarship: The Guerrilla Movement for Liberty [19:29]

http://mises.org/multimedia/mp3/RadicalScholarship/SS-Schaffer.mp3

"You might also be aware of Operation North woods scam"

"That in the early 1960's the Joint Chiefs of Staff had put together a plan directed towards an eventual attack on Cuba. And part of this plan would be for people in the United States to be shot in the streets, planes to be hijacked and destroyed, terrorist acts to be carried out in major cities, bombings and so forth. Innocent people to be framed for these bombings. All for the purpose of blaming Castro, in order to rationalize a war in Cuba."

"The Cold War itself was premised on an international communist conspiracy. And those of us who denied this and saw the Cold War as a scheme for perfect state interests were attacked by the anti-conspiracy league as "paranoid conspiracy theorists".

"But it's interesting, right after 9/11 we have George Bush getting on television and telling us "Let us have no Conspiracy theories about all of this".

"He then began expouting on his own conspiracy theory. It was Al Qaeda, Axis of Evil, International Terrorist Networks, Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein."

"In otherwords, any conspiracy theories that are outside the realm of what is politically correct are not to be examined. Stick to the conspiracy theories we give you and you'll be alright. Those who believe in the establishment conspiracies are patriots. Those who suspect the establishment of their own conspiracies are paranoid. 'They conspire but we do not.'"

"Paranoia in this connection is not a fear of others, but a baseless fear of others. What would one say of a Jewish person in Nazi Germany who thought the government was out too get him? Paranoid? If so, what would you say about about another Jewish person in Nazi Germany who didn't think the government was out to get him? Psychologically healthy?

"Does 'paranoid' in fact not describe the state of mind of US officials who see all of us as potential terrorists." etc etc.

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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Conza88 replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 11:30 AM | Locked

Ron Paul on Barack Obama and New World Order

"McCain was obviously the back up candidate if Obama didn't win"

"They've been positioning Obama for a long, long time"

"You know the plans are laid for him to take care of the corporate elite"

Ron Paul Speech - One World Government

"The only question to be answered with right now is; what is it going to be replaced with?

Believe me they are working very hard to devise a new system. They are talking about an international fiat currency paper system, with the loss of US national sovereignty.

"We have to stop this move towards one world government and one world currency."

The Drive for a World Central Bank by Hans-Hermann Hoppe

"Before I will explain why there is a drive towards a world bank."

"Why is there a drive towards world government?"

"Because the drive to a world bank, can be best understood by an intermediary step in the underlining drive to world government."


Below - it is from the some of the elite's own words, all sourced below...

Future is Calling - G. Edward Griffin

Ron Paul: Bad Foreign Policy Started with Woodrow Wilson

"Ron Paul can you speak about the NWO's plan for a one world government? Will they succeed?"

Ron Paul:- "They'll succeed if we don't do anything about it."

 

But seriously, this thread gets one star. There is no need for this on LvMI.

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 5:52 PM | Locked

twistedbydsign99:
I don't mean the circumstantial evidence I mean the raw recorded physical evidence:

That isn't the raw physical evidence that is Truther propaganda spread by people who are illiterate in structural engineering.

Why the Towers Fell (60min) (NOVA)

twistedbydsign99:
And anyone that doesn't think WTC7 was demolished... seriously? What are you smoking I need some.

Only the people who think that WTC7 was demolished are smoking something. Three is ZERO evidence for ANY controlled demolition.

The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 - The Truth Behind The Third Tower (60min) (BBC)

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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Juan replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 5:57 PM | Locked
So now the british broadcasting corporation, flagship of the nationalized/socialized media, is an authority to be taken seriously.

But I guess It makes sense in a way. If you are parroting US government propaganda it makes sense to also quote propaganda from the british government.

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 6:08 PM | Locked

Juan:
So now the british broadcasting corporation, flagship of the nationalized/socialized media, is an authority to be taken seriously.

Please Juan don't watch the video and remain ignorant. Obviously the BBC is part of the conspiracy and have been paid off by Dick Cheney. Anyone else who is interested may actually learn something.

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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Juan replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 6:12 PM | Locked
Ah poptech you and and your endless propaganda...

It's hard had to face the fact that your 'minimal government' is just a murderous scam no ? Oh, but 'national defense' is the reason why a 'limited' government is needed...

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 6:16 PM | Locked

Juan:
Ah poptech you and and your endless propaganda...

You mean my endless facts. Have no fear rational people are not afraid to the watch the videos. I know you are too scared to watch them.

The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 (60min) (BBC)

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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Juan replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 6:20 PM | Locked
No poptech, I don't waste my time watching trash produced by the british government, or by the mafia they fund through legal privileges.

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 6:31 PM | Locked

Juan:
No poptech, I don't waste my time watching trash produced by the british government, or by the mafia they fund through legal privileges.

I understand your fear, unlike you I have no fear and have watched every major nonsensical truther video. After laughing so hard it hurt I found videos with facts and logic. I also found embarrassing debates with the Truthers.

Dylan Avery, Jason Bermas (Loose Change) vs. Mark Roberts (9/11 Researcher) (1/2) (30min)

Dylan Avery, Jason Bermas (Loose Change) vs. Mark Roberts (9/11 Researcher) (2/2) (30min)

Conspiracy theorists are impossible to deal with because they refuse to watch or read anything which is how they arrived at their nonsensical theories to begin with.

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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Seph replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 6:32 PM | Locked

Poptech:

Juan:
Ah poptech you and and your endless propaganda...

You mean my endless facts. Have no fear rational people are not afraid to the watch the videos. I know you are too scared to watch them.

The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 (60min) (BBC)

Ah, I assume you've read the endless rebuttals given by truthers? 

SInce, you know, you're not afraid of evidence and all. 

Simply responding to evidence by quoting a statist documentary that has been refuted since the week it was released, wont fly I'm afraid...

Just one example:

Barry Jennings, now dead of 'unknown causes' was the last man to get out of WTC 7 alive. He reported:

Massive explosions

Dead Bodies littered everywhere

Intense heat

All before the collapse of WTC 1 and 2, which is what the government conspiracy theorists have claimed caused the collapse.

Well, actually they first claimed that it was because there were no fire engines available to fight the fires....then it came out that there were fireboats pumping water from the Hudson, one of which is equivalent to 14 engines drafting water. 

So whatever story they're telling now (is it still 'thermal expansion') is now at least their third story....

But that's no reason to believe they are lying...

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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 6:53 PM | Locked

Seph:
Ah, I assume you've read the endless rebuttals given by truthers?

Nonsensical responses are not rebuttals.

Seph:
Simply responding to evidence by quoting a statist documentary that has been refuted since the week it was released, wont fly I'm afraid...

They haven't been refuted. In almost all cases they were never read or watched.

The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 - The Truth Behind The Third Tower (60min) (BBC)

6 Debunked 9/11 Conspiracy Claims From NIST's New WTC 7 Report (Popular Mechanics)
How the Loss of One Column May Have Led to the Collapse of WT7 (PDF) (Structure Magazine)
NIST WTC 7 Investigation Finds Building Fires Caused Collapse (National Institute of Standards and Technology)
Questions and Answers about the NIST WTC 7 Investigation (National Institute of Standards and Technology)

You need to start sourcing your claims from non-truther sites. Instead of just posting random truther nonsense.

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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Seph replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 7:01 PM | Locked

Poptech:
Nonsensical responses are not rebuttals.

Oh, well because you say so...

Tell me, have you ever made a post of substance?

 

Poptech:
You need to start sourcing your claims from non-truther sites. Instead of just posting random truther nonsense.

Are you going to ignore what I said about Jennings, just like you totally ignored my critique of your blatant statism?

Your posts all follow a similar pattern:

1) Ignore any solid evidence contradicting your views

2) Ridicule anything else

3) Post links to a debunked government video

 

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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 7:14 PM | Locked

Seph:
Are you going to ignore what I said about Jennings

Again you don't read or watch anything. Barry Jennings is covered in the video. Truthers don't want the truth they want to perpetuate ignorance on the Internet. All my posts have various links to videos and sources that cover all this nonsense in detail.

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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Juan replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 7:19 PM | Locked
As a side note, out of curiosity, I checked BBC's funding scheme. It turns out 86% of their income comes from the fee the state collects for them at the point of a gun from people who own tellys. Plus some 200 millions they get from the state directly.

I'm pretty sure the BBC is an unbiased free-market entity whose mission is to report 'the truth'.

February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church.
Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."

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liberty student replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 7:21 PM | Locked

OT, Poptech, pull those commercial links out of your signature please.  Advertising links are not cool.

"When you're young you worry about people stealing your ideas, when you're old you worry that they won't." - David Friedman
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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 7:21 PM | Locked

Juan:
I'm pretty sure the BBC is an unbiased free-market entity whose mission is to report 'the truth'.

No they are clearly funded by Dick Cheney and part of the conspiracy. I have never seen someone so scared to watch a video in my life that they make any excuse not to watch them.

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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Seph replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 7:21 PM | Locked

Poptech:

Seph:
Are you going to ignore what I said about Jennings

Again you don't read or watch anything. Barry Jennings is covered in the video. Truthers don't want the truth they want to perpetuate ignorance on the Internet. All my posts have various links to videos and sources that cover all this nonsense in detail.

Actually, his timeline was totally misrepresented in the video, which is what caused the original video of him stating that he saw explosions and dead bodies before the collapse of wtc 1 and 2, to be released at all. 

http://www.911blogger.com/node/16573

and here are just a few videos' debunking the debunkers'

http://elasticband.memebot.com/debunkingthedebunkers.html

But those are just for the people who might be on the fence. I can tell you're not interested. 

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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 8:03 PM | Locked

Seph:
Actually, his timeline was totally misrepresented in the video, which is what caused the original video of him stating that he saw explosions and dead bodies before the collapse of wtc 1 and 2, to be released at all. 

Do you have any non-truther sources? Barry Jennings is making assumptions about what he heard and what he saw was taken out of context. Michael Hess who was with Jennings does not support the truther position. It is embarrassing you keep linking to David Ray Griffin, Ph.D. in Religion who has stated outright lies numerous times over and over. The one video trys to claim the BBC is part of the conspiracy. LMAO! Truthers are absolutely delusional. Everyone who debunks their nonsense is in on the conspiracy! ROFLMAO!

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 8:20 PM | Locked

liberty student:
OT, Poptech, pull those commercial links out of your signature please.

Free software is commercial? Interesting but I will comply with your statist demands. I am surprised to see you have adopted regulatory policies. Hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me here.

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wilderness replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 8:31 PM | Locked

Poptech it's private property, but maybe being an advocate for a government you forget what that is from time to time.Stick out tongue

"Do not put out the fire of the spirit." 1The 5:19
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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 8:47 PM | Locked

wilderness:
Poptech it's private property, but maybe being an advocate for a government you forget what that is from time to time.

Hey I have no problem with your statist demands and regulations. Just please don't ever preach to me about you being against them ever again.

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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liberty student replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 8:55 PM | Locked

Poptech:
Free software is commercial?

Your adsense ads are commercial.

Poptech:
Interesting but I will comply with your statist demands. I am surprised to see you have adopted regulatory policies.

You never really had a choice.  It's community policy.  You're posting on private property.

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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 9:00 PM | Locked

liberty student:
You never really had a choice.

I complied with your statist demands and regulations. Yet I keep laughing at the hypocrisy.

liberty student:
It's community policy.

What is this a communist site now?

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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Seph replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 9:07 PM | Locked

Poptech:

Seph:
Actually, his timeline was totally misrepresented in the video, which is what caused the original video of him stating that he saw explosions and dead bodies before the collapse of wtc 1 and 2, to be released at all. 

Do you have any non-truther sources? Barry Jennings is making assumptions about what he heard and what he saw was taken out of context. Michael Hess who was with Jennings does not support the truther position. It is embarrassing you keep linking to David Ray Griffin, Ph.D. in Religion who has stated outright lies numerous times over and over. The one video trys to claim the BBC is part of the conspiracy. LMAO! Truthers are absolutely delusional. Everyone who debunks their nonsense is in on the conspiracy! ROFLMAO!

You're actually resorting to stating that Jennings 'made assumptions' when he saw a roomful of dead bodies? Or when the staircase he was running down, blew up and he was forced to hang on to the edge, miraculously crawling back and later escaping out a window? 

Whatever, I'm done with this. It's clear that you're being willfully ignorant at best. I can only hope people who were formerly on the fence, will take note of this, and that it will hopefully influence them toward 9/11 truth. Cheers. 

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Poptech replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 9:10 PM | Locked

Seph:
You're actually resorting to stating that Jennings 'made assumptions' when he saw a roomful of dead bodies? Or when the staircase he was running down, blew up and he was forced to hang on to the edge, miraculously crawling back and later escaping out a window? 

Please provide a non-truther source confirming this.

Seph:
Whatever, I'm done with this. It's clear that you're being willfully ignorant at best. I can only hope people who were formerly on the fence, will take note of this, and that it will hopefully influence them toward 9/11 truth. Cheers. 

I am still waiting for truthers to provide sources that are not websites created by other truthers.

"Anarchism misunderstands the real nature of man. It would be practicable only in a world of angels and saints" - Ludwig von Mises

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Natalie replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 9:24 PM | Locked

Poptech:

liberty student:
You never really had a choice.

I complied with your statist demands and regulations. Yet I keep laughing at the hypocrisy.

liberty student:
It's community policy.

What is this a communist site now

Let's not exaggerate. This is a private site with voluntary participation. Many places have rules like that.

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

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BioTube replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 9:43 PM | Locked

Let's say 9/11 was a government conspiracy and they've managed to keep it quiet all this time - under this assumption, it's omre likely that the planes carried agents to aid the collapse, rather than a precision demolition being set up. Consider: the towers had their support split between the center and the exterior; there were no explosions on the outside of the towers, which are done even on buildings with more traditional design. The planes, whether delivered by the government or Muslim terrorists, were the agents of the towers' destruction.

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Natalie replied on Wed, Sep 9 2009 9:52 PM | Locked

Why is everybody forgetting that government is a group of people officially in power? So why there couldn't be another group, independent from it, that wants to challenge its power by violent means? It's as if no revolution has every happened in the past couple of centuries...

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

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