http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=abY5sSXoN_wo
The Polish people I am acquainted with, think that Obama is an idiot for doing this.
Yeah, I noticed that. Now, all of a sudden, Poles seem to hate Obama. I find this actually quite funny, since I am Polish, but if I were to be the President of the United States I would definitely cut this program. The worst part though is that Obama cut the program on the "anniversary" of the Soviet invasion of Poland during WWII.
Political Atheists Blog
krazy kaju: The worst part though is that Obama cut the program on the "anniversary" of the Soviet invasion of Poland during WWII.
The worst part though is that Obama cut the program on the "anniversary" of the Soviet invasion of Poland during WWII.
Exactly! It reminds so many of us about the Yalta... BIG mistake!
But...
At least we know clearly how "precious" we are for the U.S. government.
Our supposed "friend" has spat right in our face...
Well!
"You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
It will be very beneficial to us eventually...
That's the story I get from the Poles, too. Ironic thing is, though, that the missile defense system would make Poland the first target for nuclear missiles. The US has just saved Poland from a potential Russian nuclear bombardment by ending an aspect of an "entangling alliance" with them. This is one step closer to world peace. :)
Ah, peace for our times. We are somewhat sensitive to such stuff here in Central Europe.
February 17 - 1600 - Giordano Bruno is burnt alive by the catholic church. Aquinas : "much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."
Juan:Aww. The poor and patriotic military contractors won't be selling their useless junk. That's pretty bad for the economy...
They took our jobs!
"Look at me, I'm quoting another user to show how wrong I think they are, out of arrogance of my own position. Wait, this is my own quote, oh shi-" ~ Nitroadict
i read a news report that Obama is having the missiles staying and brought in by the navy (of course different kind of missiles) and the a deal is on the table to get them into Turkey. There's rumors (saw it blogged at Lew Rockwell) that missiles might go to Georgia. The more ramped up developments with Iran is making all of this more of a geo-political shift - nothing more nor less. Look for some trade-off with Russia in some form or fashion. Of course Obama will play it up that he is for peace, but it's a lie.
others may have seen this. report says:
"'Barack Obama, the US president, said a day earlier that the decision to abandon the Bush administration’s plans was taken after a change in Washington’s perception of the threat posed by Iran.
Following a review, US intelligence decided short- and medium-range missiles from Iran now pose a greater near-term threat than the intercontinental ballistic missiles the Bush plan addressed.A new missile-defence plan would rely on a network of sensors and interceptor missiles based at sea, on land and in the air as a bulwark against Iranian short- and medium-range missiles, said Robert Gates, the US defence secretary....
In his speech, Rasmussen said long-range ballistic missile technology in the hands of such countries as North Korea and Iran threatened the West and Russia in large part because it could lead to regional proliferation.
“If North Korea stays nuclear, and if Iran becomes nuclear, some of their neighbours might feel compelled to follow their example,” he said.'"
i've read this in other news sources, but can't remember where, but there ya go.
Byzantine:I think that the Poles are idiots
You are so high cultured.
krazy kaju: Byzantine:I think that the Poles are idiots You are so high cultured.
Always with the culture when it comes to Poles.
Well the timing is certainly off - rather amateurish. I think the decision is a sound one.
Ska is lame and so am I.
Byzantine: krazy kaju:You are so high cultured. Anarchists don't believe in culture. Statist.
krazy kaju:You are so high cultured.
Anarchists don't believe in culture. Statist.
http://mises.org/journals/jls/11_1/11_1_1.pdf
Byzantine: Conza88: Byzantine: krazy kaju:You are so high cultured. Anarchists don't believe in culture. Statist. http://mises.org/journals/jls/11_1/11_1_1.pdf Please. I don't read the lunatic screeds of xenophobes.
Conza88: Byzantine: krazy kaju:You are so high cultured. Anarchists don't believe in culture. Statist. http://mises.org/journals/jls/11_1/11_1_1.pdf
Please. I don't read the lunatic screeds of xenophobes.
This stopped being funny awhile ago, even if people are being sarcastic. Might be time to get back to discussing the OP.
liberty student: Byzantine: Conza88: Byzantine: krazy kaju:You are so high cultured. Anarchists don't believe in culture. Statist. http://mises.org/journals/jls/11_1/11_1_1.pdf Please. I don't read the lunatic screeds of xenophobes. This stopped being funny awhile ago, even if people are being sarcastic. Might be time to get back to discussing the OP.
I honestly couldn't tell; the sarcasm was so dry I thought the thread was in the Sahara.
Actually, the majority of Poles agree with the decision (and the margin would probably have been wider if it occurred on a better day):
48% favor the move compared to 31% opposed
They haven't scrapped it entirely, rather changed the technology to be deployed (and it's going to be delayed as well). I have no idea if it's going to be more efficient or less expensive, the reports are conflicting.
Judging by the Russian media, Russian government was less concerned with a few missiles in Poland and Czech Republic (not a big threat to Russia anyway) than with the proposed Czech radar that would see all of the European part of Russia to the Ural Mountains. So NATO is probably going to use the Russian radar in the Caucasus mountains against the possible threat from Iran which suits Russia just fine.
I suspect that Obama and Putin/Medvedev have reached some kind of a bargain: US changes the missile doctrine to more palatable to the Russians while Russia won't sell long-range missile systems to Iran.
If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.
J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
It's certainly going to be better (as in more lucrative) for the military and defense contractors who will ask for more funding in response.
Juan:Too bad. But Iran will get their missiles anyway, sooner or latter. The sooner the better.
Indeed, the Iranian people are at a big disadvantage, in that they cannot defend themselves against potential attackers.
Look at how much the west has backed off threatening and bullying North Korea since they bettered their armament.
Violence, only respects violence. A sad consequence of imperial times.
Wow this is all smoke and mirrors guys. Whatever you see on TV about military actions is 100% BS. It is a line and nothing more. All of those missiles will most likely still go to Poland, and Russia will most likely still counter. You just won't hear about it anymore. Can I provide you proof? Nope. All I can say, is that the polices given to the public are contrary to the polices carried out. I use to carry out the contrary policies. Sorry about that. I was wrong.
Don't waste your time.
Criminals, there ought to be a law.
Criminals there ought to be a whole lot more. Bon Scott.
Byzantine: Well back on topic then, why, exactly, do the Poles think Obama is an "idiot" for doing this [...] why is it up to American taxpayers to foot the bill for the defense of Europe against Russia, Iran, or any other neo-con hobgoblin?
Well back on topic then, why, exactly, do the Poles think Obama is an "idiot" for doing this
[...]
why is it up to American taxpayers to foot the bill for the defense of Europe against Russia, Iran, or any other neo-con hobgoblin?
As far as I know Americans wanted first and foremost to defend themselves.We - the great majority of Poles - did not want their missiles on our land.
We understood clearly that it would be a great problem for us - not real advantage.
I do not care if Obama is an idiot or not - that is Americans' problem - not Poles'.
;-)
Remember just one thing...
For Poles September 17 is a far, far, far worse day than e.g.
December 7 or September 11 for Americans...
For us September 17 is an open and vividly hurting wound - a treason wound!
Therefore...
We perceive this as American signal given to Russia...
:-/
Now think of the quality of Obama's i.e. U.S. government foreign policy...
liberty student:Indeed, the Iranian people are at a big disadvantage, in that they cannot defend themselves against potential attackers.
just sayin'
Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid
Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring
nirgrahamUK: the iranian state is not the iranian people. the iranian people suffer the iranian state just like we suffer ours. just sayin'
the iranian state is not the iranian people. the iranian people suffer the iranian state just like we suffer ours.
What are you saying?
Byzantine: Well back on topic then, why, exactly, do the Poles think Obama is an "idiot" for doing this and, next question, what's stopping them and all the other European nations from building their own damned missile defense system. Stated another way, why is it up to American taxpayers to foot the bill for the defense of Europe against Russia, Iran, or any other neo-con hobgoblin?
Well back on topic then, why, exactly, do the Poles think Obama is an "idiot" for doing this and, next question, what's stopping them and all the other European nations from building their own damned missile defense system. Stated another way, why is it up to American taxpayers to foot the bill for the defense of Europe against Russia, Iran, or any other neo-con hobgoblin?
Did anyone actually oppose Obama's move before your inflammatory and uncivil comment?
Byzantine:Read the original post, polski.
Clean it up or take a hike.
In 1941 the Red Cross in Poland discovered the executed bodies of the entire Polish officer corp and determined that it was done by the Soviets. FDR swept it under the rug.
Juan:Granted, but given the existence of rogue states like the american state and the israeli state, it makes sense for the iranian state to acquire weapons so as to check the deranged plans of other deranged people like themselves.
Would you be willing to concede that an islamic dictatorship has less legitimacy than a constitutional republic?
Felipe:Would you be willing to concede that an islamic dictatorship has less legitimacy than a constitutional republic?
What about a constitutional dictatorship and an islamic republic?
liberty student: Felipe:Would you be willing to concede that an islamic dictatorship has less legitimacy than a constitutional republic? What about a constitutional dictatorship and an islamic republic?
But doesnt the term "constitutional" implies that there is a respect for certain individual rights? and doesnt "islamic" implies a theocracy?
Juan: it makes sense for the iranian state to acquire weapons so as to check the deranged plans of other deranged people like themselves.
it makes sense for the iranian state to acquire weapons so as to check the deranged plans of other deranged people like themselves.
By selling the missiles to other deranged people like themselves.
The CCCP had a constitution.
Capital Pumper: By selling the missiles to other deranged people like themselves.