I am starting this thread as inspired by Sage's comment quoted below. From this thread. You don't need to read it but if your wondering where all this started thats where.
Sage:Excellent post. I think another worthwhile project would be to gather all of the premises from which libertarianism follows and represent them in an argument tree/flow chart. This would be a great heuristic device, because it would show exactly how libertarian conclusions follow from our premises.
I think another worthwhile project would be to gather all of the premises from which libertarianism follows and represent them in an argument tree/flow chart. This would be a great heuristic device, because it would show exactly how libertarian conclusions follow from our premises.
In addition to another project we are working on here, I'd also like to set something up like this.
Format
I am currently thinking of a pie like chart covering 3 topics.
Economics \\ Philosophy \\ History
Each Pie peice in their respective sections will carry the details of that section. Each detail will have a relational trace leading back to other related details. The end result will show how each peice is intertwined and important but also how certian peices directly relate to others.
For example in the Economics section there will be a box or pic-art called Business Cycle Theory. That box may have a line connecting to History's "The Great Depression" or the Depression of 2007 or whatever.
Effects of Taxation may be in the economics section and it may link to other Austrian Economic details. Taxation may also link to NAP, and NAP would like to the definition of Property. Since aggression cannot be defined without a clear definition of property, this is why IP advocates have such a hard time.
Topics
There are literally hundreds of topics and not all Austrian topics will possibly fit inside our chart. I'd like to make it poster sized. The more relevant or more important topics or details will be larger boxes or pic-arts over less important boxes. Foundational Topics especially need to be bigger, but they can then trace off to smaller more detailed topics.
Someone should literally be able to trace their finger from topic to topic and see how everything is relational. It shows how our beliefs are not made on a whim but on possibly the most comprehensive consistent moral and ethical construct mankind has ever known.
I will be the first to admit that I am not anywhere remotely well read as many here on the mises forums and History is especially my weak spot. So I will create a draft and post it here. The draft will be small but just tell me what topics to add, how relevant they are (Determine their size) and what their relationships will be. I hope to have a draft posted tonight or tomorrow.
Grandoise Vision
If we do a good job I'd like to have a professional go back over the chart and polish it up. They can add relevant pictures for each topic and make it look real good. Ultimately I think it would be an awesome idea for a poster that could be for sell at the mises store.
Even if that goal is not obtainable the project could render a seriously useful utility for many of us here as Sage has pointed out.
On a side note I need some advise for another project here.
Shoot I forgot to add. I would really like to have a huge digital version of this chart. Each topic will have a link pointing to a specific Wiki page. The Wiki page will have pages relevant to each topic, and a list of literature pertaining to that topic.
For example, the Economic Calculation Topic will have a hyperlink to an Economic Calculation Wiki managed by us, the page will
Just a concept. I put this up in a few minutes. Obviously the final poster will be much bigger with possibly hundreds of more topics. I'll also want to use better visual representations of each topic if possible.
Click the link for a bigger picture.
Red topics are negative ones showing topics we would not approve of. They connect to positive green topics which show our critique's against them. It helps us contrast others from us.
It's obviously lacking in History and Philosophy. Feel free to give me more topics. As I add more the picture will get larger. I'll have to make smaller topics so you all will have to use original poster size to see everything. Eventually I'll start changing out Topic ovals for actual pictures of stuff more representative.
Perhaps History isn't a good third section, but "Application" instead? A section siting real world examples, whether present or historical.
filc: Perhaps History isn't a good third section, but "Application" instead? A section siting real world examples, whether present or historical.
"For Rothbard, as for his mentor Ludwig von Mises, one could not hope to understand current political problems without a grasp of history, one could not understand history without knowing economic theory, one could not understand economic theory without investigating such philosophical matters as epistemological apriorism and the nature of agency, and so on." Link.
It all connects.
Right on, I'll keep it as History. Got any Topics/relations you want to add? Just list em out and I can add them!
filc: Right on, I'll keep it as History. Got any Topics/relations you want to add? Just list em out and I can add them!
Perhaps you could make a point, uh, of... what am I trying to say... Statism is helped along by "court intellectuals" and old timey philosophers from way back when. Connecting that, someone, to history?
You observe, but you do not see.
Justin Laws:Perhaps you could make a point, uh, of... what am I trying to say... Statism is helped along by "court intellectuals" and old timey philosophers from way back when. Connecting that, someone, to history?
I think I get where your going. Pretend I am extremely ignorant. Can you give me anything more concrete? Anything and everything related to our beliefs can be put in here but I need specific points and their relations. I have some more in my head I'll be adding tonight.
I think he is reffering to things like this:
http://mises.org/story/1676
In the U.S. the most extreme and thoroughgoing instances of domestic interventionism occurred during the two World Wars of the twentieth century. It was therefore no surprise that the movement to professionalize American economics, which began in the 1880's, experienced quantum leaps during these war crises. For when the State goes to war it needs professional expertise to plan and direct the massive mobilization of the resources it requires. This translates into a cornucopia of lucrative and prestigious jobs for economic experts and specialists in the bureaus and advisory boards of the political planning apparatus that centrally directs the war economy.
Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid
Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring
Bump.
I need more input!
More philosophy, and history please. Going to add some stuff today.
Specific topics please and relations of other topics.
I move for the "monopoly on force" concept to have a central position - maybe even somehow configure it into an overarching organizational scheme for the elements already there.
Why anarchy fails
If I understand where you are aiming with this these might be decent topic suggestions:-Libertarian Heritage; history (possibly on the border with philosophy), green, big, related to private property, laissez-faire, Socialism and Fascism-Examples of Private Supply of Law (medieval Ireland, medieval Iceland, Somalia); history, green, medium (or split apart and each given a small topic?)-Libertarian Class Analysis; political philosophy, green, important, related to private property, taxation, capitalismBTW , maybe make a tender split (a slightly different shade, but no border line) between Philosophy (more theorethical, ethics) and Political Philosophy (more practical, the myth of national defense etc) and between history (examples relating to war and law and civil liberties) and economic history (examples like the Great Depression, the German Economic Miracle, the Asian Tigers, the failure of central planning in the USSR)?
I'm liking this idea lot.It would really simplify libertarianism and/or austrianism to have this as a tool. I will try to see what i can create . Well done on the ideas and things people have created so far.
I don't really want to comment or read anything here.I have near zero in common with many of you.I may return periodically when there's something you need to know.
Near Mutualist/Libertarian Socialist.
I seem to have adopted too many projects at once. If you want I'd be happy to share the visio file with you.
Conza88:It all connects.
Cantor's multiple levels of infinity :)
I dunno guys this is getting carried away very quickly! It's starting to look more spaghetti like. How could I re-format it to improve it's readability? Perhaps I shouldn't have too many sub-topics and just stick to the foundational stuff. Also my history and philosophy sections are still week but judging by how big this is it's going to get difficult to add more and keep it easily understandable.