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Hostile reception to Libertarians?

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LvMIenthusiast Posted: Fri, Dec 11 2009 7:16 PM

Hello everyone, I've been a daily reader on this site for quite sometime and I'm currently a libertarian in progress, as I have many years of studying the works of the more prolific members of this institute. But, that's not what I came here to write about so, I'll cut to the chase here:

Is it just me or are we not like that well liked?

 

I just finished my first semester at college and most of my professors have a blatant disliking for Libertarians and classical liberalism. Ironically, the only professor that actually thoroughly enjoys my contributions in class is the biggest statist I've ever met.

Sorry if this post is insipid and boring, I just wanted to read some other perspectives on this matter.

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bloomj31 replied on Fri, Dec 11 2009 7:22 PM

I've had similar experiences.  I think it's mainly because people associate libertarian with "anarchist" and then anarchist with chaos.  So they think anyone who calls themselves a libertarian is for chaos.  This is based on anecdotal evidence though, I can't make any general statements.

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Alright, that's at least comforting to see that others have experienced this as well.

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Giant_Joe replied on Fri, Dec 11 2009 7:32 PM

LvMIenthusiast:

Sorry if this post is insipid and boring, I just wanted to read some other perspectives on this matter.

Not boring or insipid at all. Posts like this is one of the reasons for the forums.

I think the hostility lies in the idea that business must be regulated through government or else we'd all be enslaved by the bourgeois' capital. They fail to see that if anything comes close to the description of the bourgeois boogeyman, it's the people who have political power. Despite having over 40% of their income expropriated by the government, people find that the companies that serve them are the real enslavers. In my opinion, the government has been doing a damn fine job of keeping up this image. Even today, people blame the big banks alone for their "worthless capital" causing an economic meltdown. (If the capital was so "worthless" how could it enslave us?) They still don't see that these bankers were only able to make that possible through political power. Instead of removing the government which steals from us, people would much rather destroy companies that produce things at a profit, and are only able to produce things at a profit because they are creating things that are valuable society.

... but that's enough of from me and my insipid boring rant. :p

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Nielsio replied on Fri, Dec 11 2009 7:33 PM

LvMIenthusiast:

Alright, that's at least comforting to see that others have experienced this as well.

People are heavily invested in the mythology of the state. You're telling grown-ups that Santa Claus doesn't exist. They don't take too well to A. this revelation and B. to you.

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filc replied on Fri, Dec 11 2009 8:15 PM

I think there is a reason why socialists and statists do not actively engage genuine economists.

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Yes, and it's unfortunate. I remember last year trying to combat the forces of statism in my AP Economics course. Although, I definitely had some Austrian ideals established, i hadn't stumbled onto the actual school of thought.

I stood up and said the dollar was worth absolutely zero, which only conjured up a bunch of laughter.

My opposition to Bernanke, Geitner, and Keynes did not help either I can assure you. They began to call me a rambling idiot. Luckily, I stumbled onto Mises at the very end of the year.

 

This school needs to be recognized in contemporary culture or we're facing impending doom, if we haven't already past the tipping point. 

 

 

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Nope.  It's just professors and their stupid students.

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scineram replied on Fri, Dec 11 2009 8:43 PM

LvMIenthusiast:
I stood up and said the dollar was worth absolutely zero, which only conjured up a bunch of laughter.

Why don't you then send all of yours to me? I pay for the post.

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jmorris84 replied on Fri, Dec 11 2009 9:11 PM

Most of the opposition I face is usually along the lines of, "Well, those kinds of things wouldn't work with today's society" or "That's fantasy and doesn't work in the real world."

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bloomj31 replied on Fri, Dec 11 2009 9:38 PM

jmorris84:

Most of the opposition I face is usually along the lines of, "Well, those kinds of things wouldn't work with today's society" or "That's fantasy and doesn't work in the real world."

At some point, they will have to realize that the liberal/statist tactics don't really work either because they cause as many or more problems than they solve.

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Conza88 replied on Fri, Dec 11 2009 9:49 PM

LvMIenthusiast:
Is it just me or are we not like that well liked?

Depends on the approach, but obviously there will generally be resistance. People are often invested in it.

That being said:

Conza88:

These may help...

Simply: Itunes store -> freedomain radio -> subscribe to all four volumes -> go to podcasts -> scan the list of undownloaded podcasts and click "get" on ones that interest you.

Freedomain Radio! Volume 1: Introduction - 271
Freedomain Radio! Volume 2: Shows 272 - 561
Freedomain Radio! Volume 3: Shows 562 - 897
Freedomain Radio! Volume 4: Shows 898+

1331 Loving Your Opponent
1327 Debating Tips
1320 Bait'n'Switch - An elemental fogging tactic to watch for in debates...
668 How the Truth Looks to Others - Empathizing with the blind
627 Saving Others Part 1
531 Logical Fallacies Part 1
381: Loving the 'Sheeple'
287: Effective Discussions
268: Debating Freedom Without Solutions Part 1
257: Physics and the Three Laws of Logic
256: Blaming the Citizens for the State
252: Changing a Person's Mind
251: The Subtle Strength of the True Self
249: Libertarians, the 'minimal state' and basic logic
235: Libertarianism for the Young: Freedom for the tweens
192: Curiosity and Personal Relationship
162. Goals and Objectives: The Gun in the Room
158. 10 Arguments for Freedom (Part 1) How to find common ground during libertarian conversations
60. Loving the Lefties
39. The Economics of Conformity
22. They hate us because we're good?
17. Dealing with Non-Libertarians
7. The Argument From Morality (or, how we will win!)

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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LvMIenthusiast:
I just finished my first semester at college and most of my professors have a blatant disliking for Libertarians and classical liberalism. Ironically, the only professor that actually thoroughly enjoys my contributions in class is the biggest statist I've ever met.

Libertarians cannot afford to be anything less then the smartest, most tactful proponents of liberty and property. That being said, you will not find education in the halls of college per say. You will certainly be educated in what the opposition thinks but nothing of classical liberalism or libertarianism. You will come to find that this institute is your college, we are your classmates and the faculty our professors. There will come a time when you grow beyond the student motif and become a teacher yourself. Until such a day, bolster your library, train your mind and steel your heart.

'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael

 

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fakename replied on Fri, Dec 11 2009 10:43 PM

LvMIenthusiast:
Is it just me or are we not like that well liked?

 

 

One has not experienced true dislike until one has debated those of the Richard Dawkins forum or Nathan.

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fakename:
One has not experienced true dislike until one has debated those of the Richard Dawkins forum or Nathan.

Or Revleft

'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael

 

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bloomj31 replied on Fri, Dec 11 2009 11:08 PM

Laughing Man:

Or Revleft

I've never even posted there, but I read the forums from time to time.  They're....insane.  At least to me they are.

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I haven't really experienced that dislike... but I've been mistaken for a conservative before.  In my political ideologies class I took last year I was advocating for personal responsibility when a statist liberal argued that people acted for their own selfish interests.  I actually was a Democrat before... so I don't really have the experience of being disliked as great.  I don't know.  I guess I haven't had that experience before.  

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Marko replied on Sat, Dec 12 2009 12:04 AM

LvMIenthusiast:

Is it just me or are we not like that well liked?

I just finished my first semester at college and most of my professors have a blatant disliking for Libertarians and classical liberalism. Ironically, the only professor that actually thoroughly enjoys my contributions in class is the biggest statist I've ever met.

Ah, so this was at a college? Well, what did you expect? 

We are not well liked in congress, in colleges and in the military. 

We are also not well liked in prisons, re-education camps and concentration camps.

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Hard Rain replied on Sat, Dec 12 2009 12:40 AM

The last thing people want to hear are their idealistic statist fantasies being crushed.

I've realized, to most people, the state is like a four year old child with a learning disability; he's completely innocent, his mistakes aren't his fault and if we just love him enough he'll eventually succeed. 

"Few men desire freedom; the greater part desire fair masters" - Sallust. 

"I don't believe in ghosts, sermons, or stories about money" - Rooster Cogburn, True Grit.
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Kakugo replied on Sat, Dec 12 2009 3:55 AM

Cheer up, I've been mistaken for a Fascist of all things! Wink

Also remember that all government employees know perfectly well that anything even resembling a free market reform would result in some of their number getting fired or having to work for reduced privileges so they are our worst enemies. Yes, even worse than armchair Socialists.

My advice? Do not waste time debating or contributing to these classes. Do the minimal to pass with decent grades and do not waste your time and strength with these leeches and their disciples. Use your resources to achieve a better, more complete education. As the Brits would say quietly take the p***. Wink

Together we go unsung... together we go down with our people
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Sieben replied on Sat, Dec 12 2009 8:01 AM

bloomj31:
I've never even posted there, but I read the forums from time to time.  They're....insane.  At least to me they are.
Basically the revleft believe everything we do about free and voluntary association and prosperity but don't understand economics have been taught to hate words like "capitalism".

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Snowflake:

bloomj31:
I've never even posted there, but I read the forums from time to time.  They're....insane.  At least to me they are.
Basically the revleft believe everything we do about free and voluntary association and prosperity but don't understand economics have been taught to hate words like "capitalism".

I'm not sure I agree -- I've heard loads and loads of purge-deniers, great-leap-forward-deniers and Stalinist apologists. They seem to love murder

The difference between libertarianism and socialism is that libertarians will tolerate the existence of a socialist community, but socialists can't tolerate a libertarian community.

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Isomies replied on Sat, Dec 12 2009 2:47 PM

I've spent the last semester (grad) engaged in mortal combat with the educational establishment. Ok, maybe I'm exaggerating. Without over-generalizing, there is a hell bent bias towards statism across the post-secondary educational world.

The key to success in dealing with such professors and classmates, however, is to be such a knowledgeable, well-read, nuanced, pleasant and enjoyable a speaker and writer that you can demolish their idiotic notions of the glory of government while promoting liberty and keep them smiling simultaneously. Yes, it does involve practice like any good salesman, if that is your calling. I've blown up a few of my own grades for no other reason than saying the wrong thing at the wrong time to the wrong person. So much for university campi being bastions of intellectual curiosity and freedom.

At any rate, know what the hell is right, be able to write it well and speak it intelligently, and hold your head high because liberty is nothing to be ashamed of.

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Conza88 replied on Sun, Dec 13 2009 12:02 AM

Thedesolateone:

Snowflake:

bloomj31:
I've never even posted there, but I read the forums from time to time.  They're....insane.  At least to me they are.
Basically the revleft believe everything we do about free and voluntary association and prosperity but don't understand economics have been taught to hate words like "capitalism".

I'm not sure I agree -- I've heard loads and loads of purge-deniers, great-leap-forward-deniers and Stalinist apologists. They seem to love murder

http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/8834/227523.aspx

Sorry just had too... lol

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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Conza88:
http://mises.org/Community/forums/p/8834/227523.aspx

My gosh, that feels like a lifetime ago.

'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael

 

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