"Until its complete extermination or loss of national status, this racial trash always becomes the most fanatical bearer there is of counter-revolution, and it remains that. That is because its entire existence is nothing more than a protest against a great historical revolution... The next world war will cause not only reactionary classes and dynasties, but also entire reactionary peoples, to disappear from the earth. And that too is progress." -Karl Marx, 1849, Neue Rheinische Zeitung.
"The classes and the races too weak to master the new conditions of life must give way.... They must perish in the revolutionary holocaust." -Karl Marx (Marx People's Paper, April 16, 1856, Journal of the History of Idea, 1981)
Anyone?
"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."
This may be of some help: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/index.htm.
The first quote appears to be from an article (Hungary and Panslavism) written by Friedrich Engels and approved by Marx who wrote for the same publication (Neue Rheinische Zeitung), in January 1849.
In Ralph Waldo Emerson's journal he attributes the second quote to Marx. He is generally dependable. I don't have any Marx books to double check it though.
A cult is a religion with no political power. - Tom Wolfe
Life without music would be an error. - Nietzsche
We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home. - Edward R. Morrow
Try Rev Left. At least it will be entertaining to see the responses.
I'm guessing someone watched that recent documentary about Russia and Germany (THE SOVIET STORY). Anyway; yes, Marx advocated genocide; as did Bernard Shaw; and more often than that.
Marx also wrote quite a few antisemitic pamphlets (because it was the thing to do to make himself popular). The Left always are the first racists. Google anti-semitism and the Soviet Union. You'll get lots of stuff from Lenin and his circle as well (lets not mention Stalin at this point). There is plenty of literature on that, in fact (although much of it is in Russian).
I suggest reading Victor Suvorov's works, since that has been translated. If you know Russian, or they get translated, then Mark Solonin and the rest of Victor Suvorov's stuff.
thelion: I'm guessing someone watched that recent documentary about Russia and Germany (THE SOVIET STORY). Anyway; yes, Marx advocated genocide; as did Bernard Shaw; and more often than that. Marx also wrote quite a few antisemitic pamphlets (because it was the thing to do to make himself popular). The Left always are the first racists. Google anti-semitism and the Soviet Union. You'll get lots of stuff from Lenin and his circle as well (lets not mention Stalin at this point). There is plenty of literature on that, in fact (although much of it is in Russian). I suggest reading Victor Suvorov's works, since that has been translated. If you know Russian, or they get translated, then Mark Solonin and the rest of Victor Suvorov's stuff.
The Marxists are obviously denying it--I need actual evidence.
I am sorry that I can not find the Engels quote about how Croats should have a church bell tied around their necks and be drowned in the Danube. I always thought that was a colorful one.
thelion: Google anti-semitism and the Soviet Union. You'll get lots of stuff from Lenin and his circle as well (lets not mention Stalin at this point). There is plenty of literature on that, in fact (although much of it is in Russian).
Google anti-semitism and the Soviet Union. You'll get lots of stuff from Lenin and his circle as well (lets not mention Stalin at this point). There is plenty of literature on that, in fact (although much of it is in Russian).
Lenin as an anti-semite? That is a fresh one. Actually the first generation of Communists in the Soviet Union was anti-zionist, anti-anti-semitic and disproportionately Jewish (and disproportionately made up of minorities in general). Lenin himself was to a minor degree of Jewish descent. The famous examples being Trotsky and the butcher Kaganovich.But hey, lets not let historical accuracy get in the way of a good story.
thelion: I suggest reading Victor Suvorov's works, since that has been translated.
I suggest reading Victor Suvorov's works, since that has been translated.
Any other clowns to recommend? Solzhenitsin wrote a book on it (200 Years Together), but hey lets not mention that and instead recommend a certified moron.
I'm unable to verify the quotes, so they should be dismissed. But here's Engles:
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Do you have a specific month for the first quote? I have all the articles but they span several years.
'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael
Laughing Man: Do you have a specific month for the first quote? I have all the articles but they span several years.
No.I just went through about 60 articles from that year, and came up with nothing.
Esuric: “To the sentimental phrases about brotherhood which we are being offered here on behalf of the most counter-revolutionary nations of Europe, we reply that hatred of Russians was and still is the primary revolutionary passion among Germans; that since the revolution hatred of Czechs and Croats has been added, and that only by the most determined use of terror against these Slav peoples can we, jointly with the Poles and Magyars, safeguard the revolution. We know where the enemies of the revolution are concentrated, viz. in Russia and the Slav regions of Austria, and no fine phrases, no allusions to an undefined democratic future for these countries can deter us from treating our enemies as enemies. Slav nationality leaves the revolution entirely out of account, then we too know what we have to do” –Engles, Neue Rheinische Zeitung No. 223, February 16, 1849
Yes this quote is authentic.
Esuric:No.I just went through about 60 articles from that year, and came up with nothing.
Where did you find the quote? Was it a digital source or a written source?
Laughing Man:Where did you find the quote? Was it a digital source or a written source?
I heard it on a youtube video and then googled it--a lot came up. I can't find the article, Hungary and Panslavism (1849) anywhere, and it's where the first quote supposedly comes from.
The closest I got was reference to an article by George Watson in a 1984 edition of the Encounter which is a Christian theology journal. Do you have the link to youtube where it says this?
Marko wrote the following post at 12-20-2009 4:25 AM:
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You haven't lived in Russia eh?
First of all, its Solzhenitsin who himself often blames Jews and the West for Socialism. He hated Anatoly Kuznetsov, who wrote Babi Yar (and Kuznetsov disliked Solzhenitsin, so he denounced him to build trust in himself with the authorities to get out into the West, where he instantly defected and published his unabridged magnum opus--the point of his defecting).
Secondly, Suvorov knows what he's talking about, to the best of his ability. As a military worker he is on solid ground. Solonin is a professional historian.
Thirdly, Lenin had many Jewish advisers. But they are the same quality Jews as George Soros, who resent the fact they are Jewish. Like Marx himself. They are proud to be communists. Lenin often attacked Trotsky for his Jewishness. In Russia, Soviet or not Soviet, antisemitism in the open was always part of society. For instance, a doctor goes to a job, and she is told Djidi Nam Ne Noogjni. And this in the twenties.
Solzhenitsin in public blamed the West for Socialism; he blamed Jews in general, and Western civilization specifically. He was a Russophile, so of course, if you like him, you won't like Suvorov, who says twenty four million dead on the Russian side is the pragmatic equal of losing the ("Great Patriotic") war.
Hell, here's Mises in Planned Chaos on the topic:
“Neither were the Soviets afraid of a Nazi aggression… they were certain that such a new world war, in which they themselves planned to stay neutral, would result in a German defeat. And this defeat, they argued, would make Germany—if not the whole of Europe—safe for Bolshevism. Guided by this opinion Stalin already in the time of the Weimer Republic aided the then secret Germen rearmament” (Mises 1947:52-53).
This is the "controversial" Icebreaker thesis of Suvorov. (For those that don't have it, summary by Richard Ebeling:http://www.fff.org/freedom/1191d.asp ;but the next two books of his on that topic require knowledge of Russian, and are also worth reading if you do know the language.)