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The "Avatar" of Capitalism

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Stranger Posted: Sun, Dec 20 2009 11:58 AM

Yes, many reviewers linger on the corporation vs natives story, and how the evil humans want to destroy everything that the nature-bound Na'vi hold dear. But apart from the message of the story, what message does the film itself send out?

That five hundred million dollars in capital were invested based on one single man's vision that it could be turned into a vehicle for tenfold profits, that this vision could bring wonder and joy to people of all nations, and that he could bring it to market without the state ever putting a hand on it.

The director even fits the stereotype of an evil capitalist, often requiring his workers to work over 12 hour days and forbidding them bathroom breaks, not out of malice but because he won't allow himself these comforts either, dedicated as he is to the work there is to be done.

Enjoy the film everyone. It is astonishing.

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It is visually spectacular, its more a tale of anti-imperialism than anything else.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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nirgrahamUK:

It is visually spectacular, its more a tale of anti-imperialism than anything else.

I've heard the anti-white left call it a movie about white guilt.

To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process.
Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!"
Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."

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Stranger:
That five hundred million dollars in capital were invested based on one single man's vision that it could be turned into a vehicle for tenfold profits, that this vision could bring wonder and joy to people of all nations, and that he could bring it to market without the state ever putting a hand on it.

This.

"When you're young you worry about people stealing your ideas, when you're old you worry that they won't." - David Friedman
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Conza88 replied on Sun, Dec 20 2009 5:24 PM

From FB status updates, to the reviews I have seen... would it be accurate to call it a visually mind blowing Fern Gully... green agenda extraordinaire..?

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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tacoface replied on Sun, Dec 20 2009 5:29 PM

The sfx are astonishing, yes, but the story is lame and the script is weak.

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I enjoyed it, and initially shrunk at its (supposedly) clear environmentalist/anti-capitalist message, but then realised that more realistically it is seen as an attack on imperialism, whether by corporation or government, rather than a particularly anti-libertarian film.

The difference between libertarianism and socialism is that libertarians will tolerate the existence of a socialist community, but socialists can't tolerate a libertarian community.

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Actually it could be interpreted as an anti statist film, which is what I did. The company in Avatar was a state wasn't it? It laid claim to a territory (country), laid claim to valuable resources (taxation), used force to do this (guns and anything to confiscate the territory), offered bullshit recompense (public education, socialized medicine ECT), and gave little consideration for those individuals who were not within its specific pay role.

The only reason that this wasn't a movie against statism is that at leas this was more noble than normal statism, the funds which were at least obtained voluntarily and there was no intrinsic need or threat for violence, it just so happened that the major deposits of unobtainium (lold at the name, don't know how you spell it) was right below the site of a major tribe, and at least that which is extracted would have enriched the lives for all those on the market.

Loved the movie.

"Lo! I am weary of my wisdom, like the bee that hath gathered too much honey; I need hands outstretched to take it." -Thus Spake Zarathustra
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its a film about special effects and feeling bad for the little guys getting pushed around by bullies.

details of the background are of little import.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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bloomj31 replied on Sun, Dec 20 2009 8:59 PM

Honestly, one of the best movies I've seen in a long time.  The visuals were breathtaking and jawdropping and the story was lucid, coherent and brisk despite the movie almost running three hours.  I felt like I was there for one hour and I never wanted to take my eyes off the screen.

I do think that it had an obvious bias, but I was over that within the first hour. 

They did try to paint the humans as being the enemies of peace and it was an obvious allegory for the way native americans were treated by whites when they first got here.  There was even a trail of tears.  No diseased blanket trading though.

Anyways, I thoroughly enjoyed it and I would recommend it to anyone.

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Stranger replied on Sun, Dec 20 2009 9:24 PM

If you are trying to find a message in the story of Avatar, you might as well go looking for a message in Titanic, Terminator 2 and Aliens.

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Stranger:

If you are trying to find a message in the story of Avatar, you might as well go looking for a message in Titanic, Terminator 2 and Aliens.

The neocons on Hotair already did beforehand, so they could find an excuse to hate it. No wonder the GOP looks like it's dying:

"I hate Anti-American/Anti-Semitic/Pro-Jihadi Democratic Traitor Hollywood Marxist Leftist Eco-nuts Obama-ites, as much as the next person; and I’ve been prepared for weeks, that “Avatar” was pretty much of the same old Anti-American/Anti-Military/Anti-Capitalistic pap we’ve seen from Hollywood, for the past 35 years!"

"Now Ed Morrissey is promoting a movie that couldn’t be more anti-American, a movie that liberals and Muslims will love."

Too funny.

 

 

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Stranger replied on Mon, Dec 21 2009 3:54 PM

Capital Pumper:

The neocons on Hotair already did beforehand, so they could find an excuse to hate it. No wonder the GOP looks like it's dying:

That there is a website called "Hotair" is already news to me.

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meambobbo replied on Mon, Dec 21 2009 4:37 PM

Stranger:
If you are trying to find a message in the story of Avatar, you might as well go looking for a message in Titanic, Terminator 2 and Aliens.

Ships sink, don't piss off robots, and run.

Check my blog, if you're a loser

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Stranger:

Terminator 2

Robots replacing humans, amirite?

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there's also good, ie. ally and protect humans, robots in the second and third terminator.  i don't know if one of those kind were shown in the first one.

"Do not put out the fire of the spirit." 1The 5:19
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filc replied on Mon, Dec 21 2009 10:19 PM

A film about property rights. Here are some thoughts I pulled from it though.

The Human Side.

At the end of the movie it is said that Men returns to his dying planet. I'm assuming that this rock they were mining was a fuel. What if the movie was not about the navi but instead was about massive human suffering on earth and the answering being this rock. IT would then become just another "StarShip Troopers" movie where humans kick alien butt to stake claim over territory imperialistically.

So many stories follow that line and people dont give a rats ass about the property rights the humans are stealing from. It disturbs me how fickle people are in this regard, how easily suaded they are from a film. Had the story been followed like that it would have been another human vs aliens movie. The Humans would have been the innoscent race desperately fighting to feed or fuel its people back home. 

Had that been the case everyone would hated the Navi for being evil greedy hoarders not even using the wealth they own. I find most people hypocritical in this regard. 

Dying Planet

At the end of the movie it is stated that man returns to his dying planet. IF we are to assume that Earth is dying(Which in concept I believe to be a fallacy) then lets rollplay this out again. Lets assume that this mineral they are mining is fuel that will prolong the life of earth and save bilions of people. They will want to extract as much of the mineral as possible.

It seems entirely illogical for the company to jeapordize it's entire operation, one which could net minerals from the whole planet, simply for one motherload. Instead if they wanted to maximize profits they would have done a better job at respecting the Navi's property, partnering with them, trading with them, and extracting minerals in an area of the planet that was un-occupied or unclaimed. 

They could then create a permanent peaceful residence. This would benefit the Navi and Humans alike. I find it highly unlikely that somehow this corporation grew to the size that it was by taking the short road out everytime.

Fallacy of Dying Planet

I don't think I need to state this here on this forum but oh well. Human's economize over time via technological advancement ect... We do more while consuming less. It's entirely possible that our economic footprint and "environment footprint(queezes inside)" could dwindle if our society were that advanced. Maybe cities would be more like Fifth Elements style of concentration, and forests would be denser than ever. Who knows but I think it's a fallacy to conclude that man will exhaust his resources on earth. I feel that people think thats what will logically happen but its a fallacy at best.

My take

Great story on property rights and why they are important.

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kiba replied on Mon, Dec 21 2009 10:22 PM

The "fuel" that they're trying to mine is what make islands float. Also, you misspelled dying several time.

http://libregamewiki.org - The world's only encyclopedia on free(as in freedom) gaming.

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filc:

Great story on property rights and why they are important.

BINGO!

"Lo! I am weary of my wisdom, like the bee that hath gathered too much honey; I need hands outstretched to take it." -Thus Spake Zarathustra
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garegin replied on Mon, Dec 21 2009 11:45 PM

i am amazed that libertarians can convert the message of the story to their liking. the movie is filled with dimestore liberal slogals. the whole time i was expecting would retard character to jump out with a bush=hitler, healthcare for all poster. americans cannot make artisticly redeeming films, period. pasolini could shit out a better movie than all your lord of rings and clint eastwoods combined. awesome cinematic moments cant mask the turd literary content, you philistines! 

P.S. this post is not directed at the posters of mises.org, but at american cinema. i hope that many movie conosoirs here would find my sentiments perceptive.Big Smile

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filc replied on Mon, Dec 21 2009 11:58 PM

garegin:
i am amazed that libertarians can convert the message of the story to their liking. the movie is filled with dimestore liberal slogals.

We gotta take what we can get.

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filc replied on Tue, Dec 22 2009 12:00 AM

kiba:

The "fuel" that they're trying to mine is what make islands float. Also, you misspelled dying several time.

I fixed it thanks. And your avatar is upside down. Stick out tongue

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garegin replied on Tue, Dec 22 2009 12:05 AM

every movie is vaguely about "freedom". you cant sell opression. even nazis didnt do that. the problem is that their freedom is rent control and tobacco taxes.

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garegin replied on Tue, Dec 22 2009 12:10 AM

Stranger:

 not out of malice but because he won't allow himself these comforts either, dedicated as he is to the work there is to be done.

thats a logical fallacy. the allegations of capitalist abuse cannot be justified by saying that they themselves work like dogs. with that logic all "polar bears" can go around throwing people into freezing waters

 

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Thanks for the Avatar Wiki entry, Capital Pumper!  It would seem that the company in the film is not simply a private entity, but more like an arm of a future corporate state.  Beginning with post #240 In this thread:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/295869/official-avatar-discussion-thread/210

I talk about the prevailing anti-business attitude in Hollywood.  Some of the comments others in the thread made about the nature of business and government were quite interesting.

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bloomj31:
The visuals were breathtaking and jawdropping and the story was lucid, coherent and brisk despite the movie almost running three hours.

Honestly, I must completely disagree with you here.  The story was one big cliche, I knew everything that was going to occur half an hour within the movie, and I was never surprised a single time (the plot of Modern Warfare 2, a mere first-person shooter video game was far more imaginative, and artistic).  Furthermore, the characters were boring (you knew what cliche they used within the first five minutes of meeting each character), and the themes heavy-handed.  It was nothing but a butchering of the plot of "The Last Samurai".

It is one of the worst movies I've ever seen.

Abstract liberty, like other mere abstractions, is not to be found.

          - Edmund Burke

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filc replied on Sat, Jan 2 2010 1:41 PM

Has anyone seen Princess Mononoke? Avatar is practically a clone storywise.

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Nielsio replied on Sat, Jan 2 2010 1:48 PM

filc:

Has anyone seen Princess Mononoke? Avatar is practically a clone storywise.

I've seen Princess Mononoke (and all other Studio Ghibli movies). I haven't seen Avatar yet so I can't comment on it yet.

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There are no new stories, just new ways to tell the old ones.

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z1235 replied on Sat, Jan 2 2010 2:52 PM

liberty student:
Stranger:
That five hundred million dollars in capital were invested based on one single man's vision that it could be turned into a vehicle for tenfold profits, that this vision could bring wonder and joy to people of all nations, and that he could bring it to market without the state ever putting a hand on it.
This.

nirgrahamUK:
It is visually spectacular, its more a tale of anti-imperialism than anything else.

The Late Andrew Ryan:
filc:
Great story on property rights and why they are important.
 BINGO! 

Indeed. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY rights, first and foremost, as without them only a fool would plunge $500mil in capital and hundreds of man-years in labor to create it. Couldn't possibly have imagined a better place to rest my pro-IP case. 

Z.

 

 

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high costs of production are in large part the result of monopoly.

I quote Boldrine and Levine:

Recognize, first, that intellectual monopoly is a double edged sword. The existence of monopolies increases the cost of
creation. In one extreme case, a movie that cost $218 to make had to pay $400,000 for the music rights.3

3 The $218 movie was Tarnation and the information from BBC News, is at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3720455.stm.

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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z1235:

Indeed. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY rights, first and foremost, as without them only a fool would plunge $500mil in capital and hundreds of man-years in labor to create it. Couldn't possibly have imagined a better place to rest my pro-IP case.

1. Fool in your opinion.

2. Who says it would be $500 million to produce the same thing if IP weren't enforced?

3. How does this rest your case? Without the current structure of production and without laws being currently the way they are, we wouldn't have the movie Avatar come out as it as at a cost of $500 million?

I'm pretty damn sure people are going to see the movie in theaters instead of watching bootlegs. "Only a fool" would watch a bootlegged copy of this movie.

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laminustacitus:

Honestly, I must completely disagree with you here.  The story was one big cliche, I knew everything that was going to occur half an hour within the movie, and I was never surprised a single time (the plot of Modern Warfare 2, a mere first-person shooter video game was far more imaginative, and artistic).  Furthermore, the characters were boring (you knew what cliche they used within the first five minutes of meeting each character), and the themes heavy-handed.  It was nothing but a butchering of the plot of "The Last Samurai".

It is one of the worst movies I've ever seen.

Damn.  Well, I enjoyed it.

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z1235:

liberty student:
Stranger:
That five hundred million dollars in capital were invested based on one single man's vision that it could be turned into a vehicle for tenfold profits, that this vision could bring wonder and joy to people of all nations, and that he could bring it to market without the state ever putting a hand on it.
This.

nirgrahamUK:
It is visually spectacular, its more a tale of anti-imperialism than anything else.

The Late Andrew Ryan:
filc:
Great story on property rights and why they are important.
 BINGO! 

Indeed. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY rights, first and foremost, as without them only a fool would plunge $500mil in capital and hundreds of man-years in labor to create it. Couldn't possibly have imagined a better place to rest my pro-IP case. 

Z.

 

 

What would occur if he did so and didn't have intellectual property rights?

 

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John Ess:

z1235:

liberty student:
Stranger:
That five hundred million dollars in capital were invested based on one single man's vision that it could be turned into a vehicle for tenfold profits, that this vision could bring wonder and joy to people of all nations, and that he could bring it to market without the state ever putting a hand on it.
This.

nirgrahamUK:
It is visually spectacular, its more a tale of anti-imperialism than anything else.

The Late Andrew Ryan:
filc:
Great story on property rights and why they are important.
 BINGO! 

Indeed. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY rights, first and foremost, as without them only a fool would plunge $500mil in capital and hundreds of man-years in labor to create it. Couldn't possibly have imagined a better place to rest my pro-IP case. 

Z.

 

 

What would occur if he did so and didn't have intellectual property rights?

 

The question is nonsensical. Without IP rights, such a thing would not be possible to do.

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Stranger:

The question is nonsensical. Without IP rights, such a thing would not be possible to do.

Yes it would.

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Giant_Joe:

1. Fool in your opinion.

2. Who says it would be $500 million to produce the same thing if IP weren't enforced?

3. How does this rest your case? Without the current structure of production and without laws being currently the way they are, we wouldn't have the movie Avatar come out as it as at a cost of $500 million?

You are insane if you think that the abolition of IP rights would reduce the cost of producing movies.

Giant_Joe:
I'm pretty damn sure people are going to see the movie in theaters instead of watching bootlegs. "Only a fool" would watch a bootlegged copy of this movie.

And without IP rights, there is nothing the filmmakers could do to stop fully-featured theaters from offering screenings of Avatar without paying them a dime.

We're not talking about legitimizing a bunch of rag-tag bootleggers here, but empowering enormous capitalist enterprise to steal.

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This film was an attempt to be anti-capitalist, which is funny because it fails on three points.  One, it used the mythical version of capitalism that involves lots of market interference by the government.  Two, it used the ludicrous idea that a company, seeking to maximize profits, would spend billions on a mercenary army, then billions on an Avatar project (needed because the mercs had already pissed off the natives), when it could have started with a few thousand on a defensive force to protect negotiators from the local wildlife and bartered with the Na'vi.  "Hey, see this rock?  We need more.  There's lots under your tree, and if you were to dig it up we'll provide amazing medical procedures, useful technologies, and all the copies of Ferngully you could want."  Three, the whole reason the Na'vi were the good guys, defending their land, was because it was THEIR LAND!  Their moral claim is based entirely on property rights, which the anti-capitalist crowd doesn't like to acknowledge.

Aside from the propaganda attempt, though - very awesome movie.  I'll be buying it on Blu-Ray.

People don't like to be meddled with. We tell them what to do, what to think, don't run, don't walk. We're in their homes and in their heads and we haven't the right. We're meddlesome. -- River Tam

I aim to misbehave. -- Malcolm Reynolds

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Stranger:

You are insane if you think that the abolition of IP rights would reduce the cost of producing movies.

You are insane if you think that the abolition of IP rights wouldn't reduce the cost of producing movies.

Giant_Joe:
I'm pretty damn sure people are going to see the movie in theaters instead of watching bootlegs. "Only a fool" would watch a bootlegged copy of this movie.

And without IP rights, there is nothing the filmmakers could do to stop fully-featured theaters from offering screenings of Avatar without paying them a dime.

How do you know this? Why? Isn't it possible to come up with a solution whereby the theater can make money and the producers of the movie can make money? Business wouldn't be able to reorganize itself in such a way to handle this situation?

You must be insane if you think that.

Aster_Lacnala:

Aside from the propaganda attempt, though - very awesome movie.  I'll be buying it on Blu-Ray.

According to Stranger, you wouldn't buy it on Blu-ray only because the law stops you from downloading it.

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