Thought I might update this thread: I started the old "squats and milk" workout regimen and after only two workouts my two pairs of jeans are REALLY snug. I've gained 4.2 pounds of solid muscle, mostly on my legs and glutes. The most surprising part is that I haven't been doing GOMAD yet. I've only been building up to drinking a gallon. Currently, I drink about 3/4 of a gallon of milk a day. Once I beef up my diet (no pun intended) and once I start drinking a full gallon of milk a day my growth will probably explode. Sleeping more and partying less will also help. I'm excited. (:
After I get done with the super squats program I think I might move on to Westside. I'm thinking about throwing together a primitive periodization program by altering super squats with Westside over the course of a year.
Anyone else have anything interesting to add?
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I always wondered how healthy massing up really was, especially in the long run.
I'm a boxer by day, so I do some weight lifting - only about twice a week - and usually only the very basic movements.
Squats, deadlifts, and some powerlifting type exercises. Again, though, not too much. It does me literally no good to bulk up, it actually would probably hurt me. But I know my way around teh gym still.
existence is elsewhere
"Thought I might update this thread: I started the old "squats and milk" workout regimen and after only two workouts my two pairs of jeans are REALLY snug. I've gained 4.2 pounds of solid muscle, mostly on my legs and glutes. The most surprising part is that I haven't been doing GOMAD yet. I've only been building up to drinking a gallon. Currently, I drink about 3/4 of a gallon of milk a day. Once I beef up my diet (no pun intended) and once I start drinking a full gallon of milk a day my growth will probably explode. Sleeping more and partying less will also help. I'm excited. (:
Anyone else have anything interesting to add?"
What is wrong with the quote function!!!???
Anyway, sounds good kaju. Squats are a great exercise for nearly any fitness-oriented goal. Don't worry too much about the milk. If you can, get yourself a weightgainer shake. If not, any type of meat will do especially beef, steak, and fish (I know it's not considered meat). Also underrated - drink a ton of water and get as much sleep as possible. Remember, your body grows when you are resting not lifting.
Also, check out www.tmuscle.com - tons of free information on weight lifting, weight training, power lifting, strongman, and bodybuilding by the pros. Just keep focus on getting stronger, experiment with different programs and see what works best. If you check out that site, look at Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 program. I've been following it since August with some really great results. If you are a novice you may not even need to deload. Anything from Westside is going to be badass; check out West Side for Skinny Bastards 1 & 2. Let me know if you need help with anything.
Best regards,
Chris
I use kettlebells almost exclusively. They are excellent.
I do--in fact, it's become one of my biggest hobbies over the last year. Hit the gym about 4 times a week and love it.
Chris:What is wrong with the quote function!!!???
idk, it's been messed up for a while.
Chris:Don't worry too much about the milk. If you can, get yourself a weightgainer shake.
That's kind of the point of GOMAD, though. By consuming a gallon of milk a day you're naturally increasing your intake of Microlactin and boosting your body's production of testosterone and IGF-1. Or so I've read. The other benefit of GOMAD (for me) is that my parents help me with food costs, but not with supplements (which makes sense).
In any case, I do have a weight gainer, but I haven't been using it that much lately. In between my diet and all the milk I drink I've already doubled my caloric intake. Adding a weight gainer to that seems like a little much, ya know? Or am I wrong?
I do also eat lots of meat. I LOVE chicken and pork. I'm trying to eat more beef though.
Chris:Anything from Westside is going to be badass; check out West Side for Skinny Bastards 1 & 2. Let me know if you need help with anything.
Thanks. (:
sirmonty:I use kettlebells almost exclusively. They are excellent.
Kettlebells seem like a GREAT tool for cardio and endurance-strength, but not that good for just gaining slabs of mass (which is my goal for this summer). What do you think of my assessment?
Cork:I do--in fact, it's become one of my biggest hobbies over the last year. Hit the gym about 4 times a week and love it.
Nice! When you say 4 times a week does that mean you're doing some kind of bodybuilding routine or something more along the lines of Westside?
I would definitely consider it a bodybuilding routine, though I don't want to give the impression that I look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. I work every muscle group at least once per week and usually to the point of exhaustion (super sets, forced reps, you name it). I've improved significantly since my ultra-skinny days (used to have a BMI of 19 for chrissakes) and can lift way more weight on nearly everything--although I think having correct form is more important than stockpiling weights.
Been going for about a year now and am not about to stop!
krazy kaju:That's kind of the point of GOMAD, though. By consuming a gallon of milk a day you're naturally increasing your intake of Microlactin and boosting your body's production of testosterone and IGF-1. Or so I've read.
My own experience was, eating the standard 40/40/20 pro/carb/fat diet every 2-3 hours, including a bunch of milk before I went to sleep, I believe, and am still exploring this, that I developed a testosterone deficiency after a while. It manifested itself as tendinosis, which is microtears rather than an acute tear of the tendon. It is terrible. I have been out of weightlifting for too long, and it can take half a year for tendinosis to recover. I'm currently seeing an orthopedist about my condition.
What I've gone to is the Cyclic Ketogenic Diet. It is very low carbohydrate 5.5-6 days a week, so that test and GH levels can be high. The 1-1.5 other days are used as a carb spike, which your body takes as a survivalist response, releasing extra test, GH AND insluin at the same time. This is also a weight loss diet, so you can stay permanently ripped on it. I've lost 9lbs in 2 weeks eating 4000 kcal/day. It is hard to eat that much. Anyway, not everyone needs a CKD. A lot of people have no problems on the conventional diet. Its just genetics. The Pros also don't need to pay attention to sort of thing, cus if you need Test, just inject it.
And if you feel any part of your body ever wobbling, just take it back a notch. The core muscles might not be struggling but some stabilizer is. Injuries, really, really, really suck. Good luck.
What's good for losing slabs of fat?
To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process. Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!" Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."
^CKD Youtube Gary Taubes. See his berkely lecture. Its very good and scientific.
Chronic Kidney Disease?
I've heard AIDES is better, but I think he meant Cyclic Ketogenic Diet.
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Bob Dylan
Daniel Muffinburg: What's good for losing slabs of fat?
Not eating processed foods.
If I wrote it more than a few weeks ago, I probably hate it by now.
So steamed vegetables all day? I'm trying to lay off meats, fried stuff, and oily stuff.
"So steamed vegetables all day? I'm trying to lay off meats, fried stuff, and oily stuff." - Daniel Muffinburg
Eat less. And don't do a CKD. Complex diets are not necessary for normal people to lose weight. If you're an advanced body builder and already down in body fat percentage and what to cut more, CKD is one approach. For a normal human being it's much simpler: eat less, exercise regularly. That's how you lose fat. When you plateau, eat even less, keep exercising regularly. And do not go to tmuscle or any other site out there. There's plenty of written, vetted literature on this subject to make avoiding the wanking on internet boards, most of it done by people who don't have a clue what they're talking about, more than worth while.
For losing fat, HIIT is the best thing ever. Fun, releases dopamine through the cyclic nature of the training, doesnt take much time. Improves endurance a lot too. No downsides other than that it can be psychologically tough(kinda like doing high weight squats)
Then just do a regular Ketogenic diet. Eat tons of fat and protein and 30-40g of carbs/day. There are low carb tortillas with 12 g of carbs (8g of fiber, so 4 net) that I eat for my main meals. For breakfast, I have 8 eggs. Its just a lot of meat. You also have to eat really healthy vegetables since you can't eat a lot of them. So brocoli, spinach... etc.
xharx:For a normal human being it's much simpler: eat less, exercise regularly. That's how you lose fat. When you plateau, eat even less, keep exercising regularly.
Raw calories don't matter. Its the hormones that determine if you deposit fat. Believe it or not, there's actually an obesity problem in countries where people are eating less than 2000kcal/day. They're basically eating only rice = carbs = insulin. Seriously watch Gary Taubes on youtube. He's very smart, honest, and thorough.
SnowFlake, have any of his videos in mind?
Here. Its a pretty good presentation. Lots of information at the end.
nandnor, I got my friend hooked on HIT (not HIIT) and he threw up half way his first workout.
Crossfit ftw.
On a side note, doing OHS makes my right hand go numb, every time. It's so numb to the point that I'll drop the weight. The last 3 times I've done OHS in my xfit workout I've had to switch it around and do front squats or back squats instead.
I'm pretty sure I'm pinching a nerve as the feeling eventually comes back and I feel fairly confident that I am holding the bar correctly. Any thoughts as to why my hand straight up goes numb? Literally it's like after 5 reps of 95# and it's done for..
[EDIT]
Perhaps this explains it,
http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=22395
I am probably doing too much weight, will have to scale back on OHS until I get my (@(# together.
Another grappler turned weightlifter reporting in.
I did Judo and BJJ for several years while working a very physically strenuous day job. Therefore I never really bothered with strength or conditioning work beyond the warmup exercises of the Judo classes - I barely had enough energy to go to my grappling classes as it was.
Then I decided to go back to school to earn my BA, and not only did I stop working so hard - I also couldn't roll anymore(isolated rural campus w/no grappling).
Now, richer one BA degree and 40 pounds of excess fat around the midsection, I´m trying to whip myself into a good enough shape that I can go back to grappling without feeling like a total failure.
I do a mixture swimming, kettlebells, powerlifts and oly lifts(I LOVE the clean and jerk), and I´m slowly getting back into shape. Mind you, losing weight is a LOT harder for me now that I´m over 30 than it was ten years ago. If you are overweight and in your teens or early twenties, LOSE WEIGHT NOW - don't postpone it.
I do freeweight and machine training, fairly hard, for a couple of hours a week. I also do cardio and aerobic excercises about 5-7 hours a week. I have been working out some way or another since I was about ten, I think, and tried gymnastics. I never made it in gymnastics, but I liked working out.
I'm not really intent on becoming incredibly strong or anything, but I do try to push myself pretty hard.
“Socialism is a fraud, a comedy, a phantom, a blackmail.” - Benito Mussolini"Toute nation a le gouvernemente qu'il mérite." - Joseph de Maistre
Interval sprints and anaerobic exercises.
Burpees are good to start with. Stay away from the aerobics if you can - if you can't maintain intense workouts, however, just do aerobics until you build a base level of fitness.
Not only will the fat just melt off of you, you'll be stronger, leaner, and feel like you have a lot more energy.
Best way to cure a hangover.
^
Yuck
What the hell are you drinking?
More booze. And I'm not at all joking!
Daniel, if you wanna lose slabs of fat, come live with me this summer for a few weeks. I'm starting a small fitness commune in my home. I'm not kidding.
^ Yuck
I never said they're the most productive workouts. But if you do all the usual steps to avoid a hangover and still wake up feeling like crap then hitting the gym usually works to make you feel better.
Dondolee, my drink of choice is a vodka with a whey protein mixer, unfortunately I've not had the balls to try it yet so I usually go for straight vodka.
If you want to lose weight you have to put on muscle, which you're not going to be able to do unless you have enough protein. If you do a Google search you'll be able to find how much protein you should be having and how often you should be having it. So, no, absolutely don't avoid meats, there are certain ways to cook them that are better but make sure to eat plenty of steak, liver, tuna or whatever other meat you prefer. For most people, myself included, eating enough proper meals to get all of your nutrition is simply not feasible, so supplement your diet with protein shakes. All this in addition to working out of course.
In response to Snowflake, here is what Mark Rippetoe and Lon Kilgore write in "Practical Programming for Strength Training (2nd Edition):"
Insulin. A highly anabolic hormone, insulin regulates the permeability of cell membranes and facilitates the transport of glucose and other substances into the cell. This function is crucial for recovery from training, since depleted glucose and amino acids must be replaced so that comprehensive recovery processes can occur. Animal research has demonstrated that hypertrophy can proceed in the absence of insulin, so other mechanisms are also at work, but insulin remains one of the most potent, abundant, and easily manipulated anabolic hormones.
Insulin-Like Growth Factor. IGF-1 is a peptide hormone similar to insulin in configuration. Insulin-Like Growth Factor-1 has a strong anabolic effect in both children and adults. It is secreted by the liver in response to growth hormone, and low levels of GH as well as inadequate protein and calorie intake can inhibit its release. It affects almost every cell in the body, and is a potent regulator of cell growth. Production of this hormone has been linked to weight training in a few studies, but this finding has not been consistently demonstrated. One study has shown that bathing isolated muscle cless with IGF-1 in a Petri dish induces hypertrophy, but there is no good data showing that IGF-1 can be easily and favorably manipulated with training. It has been observed that IGF-1 is found in milk, poosibly contributing to milk's reputation as a growth food for heavy training.
That is why the famous "squats and milk" program has worked so well for so many people. Weight trainers in the 1930s and 1940s gained 20-30 lbs in a month from following the program. Squats stimulate many major muscle groups (e.g. your lower back, glutes, quads, and hamstrings), which stimulates the production of growth hormone, while the milk stimulates the production of insulin and IGF-1. Besides this, milk also contains fat which stimulates the production of testosterone. Basically, following the "squats and milk" program is like taking a safer, healthier version of synthetic steroids.
Basically, what I'm saying is that if you wanna get big and strong, carbs are your friend. In fact, if you want to get big, you want to have more insulin, so you should consume more carbs.
As for your claim that somehow eating carbs lowers your testosterone, I don't quite get where you're getting this information from. I guess you could draw a chain from more carbs to more insulin to more fat to more estrogen to less testosterone, but the fat in milk would also help stimulate the production of testosterone. So, on net, your testosterone levels would be minimally effected. Moreover, since insulin is in itself an anabolic hormone, trading a lot more insulin for a little less testosterone could be a good thing.
krazy kaju:That is why the famous "squats and milk" program has worked so well for so many people.
krazy kaju:Basically, what I'm saying is that if you wanna get big and strong, carbs are your friend. In fact, if you want to get big, you want to have more insulin, so you should consume more carbs.
krazy kaju:As for your claim that somehow eating carbs lowers your testosterone, I don't quite get where you're getting this information from.
krazy kaju:Moreover, since insulin is in itself an anabolic hormone, trading a lot more insulin for a little less testosterone could be a good thing.
Do this day in day out for months on end, and we get concerns about insulin resistance, as well as fat gain, since insulin is fat-sparing. The liver will also convert a large portion of the carbohydrates to triglycerides if glycogen stores are full, which then go into the blood stream and are deposited as fat (fat is deposited on a density gradient).
So, in conclusion, if you can have insulin, Test, GH and IGH-1, you're golden. We agree. People may be genetically gifted and be capable of this. I actually think the majority of people aren't as inhibited as I make the human body out to be, though I believe mine is. I'm throwing this information out there because I wish someone had told me about it, so that when my efforts didn't seem to be working, I would already have had a theory as to why that might be. Also, the (cyclic) Ketogenic diet is great for losing a lot of fat quickly. I weighed 180lbs before I started weight training, and in 1 year got up to 270 eating the 40/40/20 diet and working out four days a week. More body fat than I would care to admit, and I was certainly in denial along the way. The CKD has me dropping 9lbs in 2 weeks. I could probably drop more if I got rid of my carb-up periods.
I think its easy to get overconfident during your initial beginner's phase because its all so easy. But the real key to long term bodybuilding is incremental progress: avoiding as many possible setbacks, such as fat gain or injury, and maintaining a managable lifestyle that will facilitate gradual improvement. Or you could use steroids. I wish they would make steroids legal so that companies would develop safe(r) versions of them. Post biological humanism works for me too.
Daniel Muffinburg: So steamed vegetables all day? I'm trying to lay off meats, fried stuff, and oily stuff.
Anything not processed. Not just steamed vegetables. Here is a provider of clean, unprocessed seafood.
xahrx: [E]at less, exercise regularly. That's how you lose fat.
[E]at less, exercise regularly. That's how you lose fat.
Which is addressing only the symptoms, just hacking at the branches.
hayekianxyz: If you want to lose weight you have to put on muscle[.]
If you want to lose weight you have to put on muscle[.]
Huh?
hayekianxyz: For [me], eating enough proper meals to get all of [my] nutrition is simply not feasible[.]
For [me], eating enough proper meals to get all of [my] nutrition is simply not feasible[.]
I doubt that.
I. Ryan: hayekianxyz: For [me], eating enough proper meals to get all of [my] nutrition is simply not feasible[.] I doubt that.
"Your body shuts itself down if you restrict calories." - Snowflake
Your metabolism can slow, your body does not 'shut down'. When your body shuts down, you die. When you're alive, your body can not violate the laws of physics, so unless you have a space-time anomaly stashed in your digestive system pumping matter and energy in from another universe, eating less than you burn will let you lose weight.
"Raw calories don't matter. Its the hormones that determine if you deposit fat."
This is by far the most ridiculous statement I've yet read on these boards. Insulin does not violate the laws of thermodynamics, human beings are not magical machines that are immune to the laws of physics.
"Believe it or not, there's actually an obesity problem in countries where people are eating less than 2000kcal/day. They're basically eating only rice = carbs = insulin. Seriously watch Gary Taubes on youtube. He's very smart, honest, and thorough."
I'm familiar with Taubes', and he's a moron. His calories don't matter philosophy is a complete violation of the laws of thermodynamics. And I'm not getting into a wankfest that will have this thread buried in PubMed references of poorly designed studies on people with pathological conditions like lypodystrophy or which use self reported calorie intake so Taubes' case can be made. The article The Energy Balance Equation by Lyle McDonald sums up the mistakes Taubes and others make nice and handily, and since you and Taubes are the ones claiming the human body is magically resistant to the laws of thermodynamics, since you are the ones claiming energy can be created out of nothing, it's up to you to prove your case. Because the claim itself is ridiculous on its face.
xharx:Your metabolism can slow, your body does not 'shut down'. When your body shuts down, you die.
xharx:His calories don't matter philosophy is a complete violation of the laws of thermodynamics.
So in the in-out=accumulation energy balance, 'out' is equal to expenditure + excrement + whatever else. What macronutrients get used for is ENTIRELY dependent on how your hormones allocate them. But If you want to get really technical, the enthalpy of sweat droplets ought also to be counted. But by your interpretation, you can't explain why people who eat similar amounts of food and have similar physical outputs might have different amounts of body fat. The burn more than you eat philosophy treats human beings like automobiles. Our energy storage process is completely hormonal. Your entire post basically just flames this idea. You present no counterarguments against the dominant role of hormones in body fat accumulation. *Shrug*
xharx:The article The Energy Balance Equation by Lyle McDonald sums up the mistakes Taubes
Fundamentally, all I have described is a low-carbohydrate/ketogenic diet coupled with training which happens to address most, if not all, of the processes we are trying to optimize for fat loss.