The US citizens cannot sustain our current lifestyle if we just cook hamburgers for each other, sue each other, sell each other life insurance & financial advice to each other, clean each others toilets, clean up the environment, distribute & sell imported consumer products, get on some US government payroll and be paid with US dollars borrowed back from foreign industrial nations, and/or not create any of the things that we consume or need to sustain our standard of living and/or our non-producing lifestyle.
The individual families (also the nations, city-states, islands, and tribes) of the world do not normally share the fruits of their labors with the global community, nor should they. Each family lives a lifestyle and standard of living that is maintained by consuming the wealth that is produced by the working wealth producing members in that family and that wealth is shared by all of the members of that family.
Each family on an island, state, nation, continent, or in the entire world is not obligated to share the fruits of their own labors with any other family, tribe, state or nation.
Governments have always passed laws to force the working wealth producers in that politically defined economic area to contribute a portion of the fruits of their labors to support jobs such as police, teachers, military, finance, social services, welfare, environmental and other bureaucratic jobs generally do not produce any of the food, shelter, and clothing required to sustain life or create any wealth for the nation. Most of these government jobs are needed to support and protect the citizens that do produce the things that the society needs to survive, but a lot of these government jobs could be eliminated. This community of mutual contributing and mutual support should be one part of the definition of civilization.
Governments might and usually do pass laws to force the working wealth producers in that family to provide a portion of fruits of their labors to the citizens that are not as fortunate.
Sometimes those unfortunate citizens wanting to share the resources that others worked to produce have purposely squandered their own resources on new cars, fast food, Big Screen TV's, vacations, booze, cigarettes, concerts, drugs, tattoos, body piercings, etc. instead of expending their resources on educations, businesses, trade schools, tools, equipment, materials.
The leaders of the wealth producing family could quit working and stop creating wealth. They could then export all of the gold, products, services, commodities and wealth created by the previous generations of the wealth producing family as needed to allow the current members of that family to stop working and live a non wealth producing lifestyle and standard of living maintained by selling title to the privately owned businesses, factories, casinos, hotels, farms, land, ports, breweries, refineries, forests, ports, breweries, refineries, and other privately owned assets located in the USA to pay for imported products and our US federal government expenses.
After the previously wealth producing family has sold all of their assets, they could print paper bonds (that required their children and their unborn grandchildren work hard and produce wealth to redeem these debt instruments when they become due) and then sell these freshly printed paper bonds to raise money to pay for imported products for the citizens to consume, rather than the citizens making the products that the (previously wealth producing) family needs for consumption to maintain their lifestyle and standard of living.
In order to pay for our growing US government expenses and our imported consumable products, the USA is now exporting title to our privately owned real estate, factories, casinos, hotels, office buildings, ports, businesses, etc. to pay for government expenses and imported consumer items. This can continue only until we run out of US private assets to sell in order to redeem our freshly printed paper US bonds.
The USA creates lots of things. An increasing number of those things are services and/or information products and unfortunately the only growing sectors are those where the USA has a lead or in the area of government services which include education, now health care and medicine, military/intelligence/law enforcement (Force, Destruction and Death).
But to say the USA produces nothing is ridiculous. Look around you, the building, roads, power, materials is mostly produced locally. And the USA exports technology to other areas of the world to help them exploit their advantages.
I would not say the USA is in the best position, certainly the Swiss and other small countries of the EU are better off and the future (Because of expanding government) is better in China and India (because of increasingly limited government).
True but these local assets cannot be sold for a profit to bring in wealth to the general area. Other information technologies are a viable resource but as the government continues to divert capital from the private demands of the individual the increasing costs of development become less of a value and in turn forces the capital development outside of the governments effective economical area. Into areas such as China, Korea, India, Japan, Taiwan, ect.
Real wealth, jobs, industry, and real monetary value is created and/or acquired ONLY when the members of a family (or a nation, city-state, island, tribe, etc.) plant, grow and/or harvest something of commercial value from the earth, extract something of commercial value from the earth, provide professional services (medical, legal, dental, engineering, architecture, accounting, land surveying, technology, etc.) to others outside of that family, and/or manufactures or constructs something of commercial value that is consumable (or permanently useful for income or rent) and then sells, leases or rents these items and/or services to parties outside of their family, in return for a net transfer of gold, currency or commodities from other parties outside of their family into their own family. The members of that family can reflect their real wealth and financial security with the accumulation of grain, gold, cattle, jewels, land, buildings, commodities and/or other marketable products for reserve use in times of emergency and/or also to raise the standard of living for the members of that family.
Tax supported jobs such as police, teachers, military, finance, social services, welfare, environmental and other bureaucratic jobs generally do not produce any of the food, shelter, and clothing required to sustain life or create any wealth for the nation.
The citizens who work to produce the necessities of life are usually taxed for a portion of the wealth that they generate to pay the government employee salaries of these government jobs are that are needed to support and protect the citizens that do produce the things that society needs to survive, but a lot of these government jobs could be eliminated.
The communist form of government where everybody works for the government because the government owns everything does produce the food, shelter, and clothing required to sustain life. Most of the individuals in communist countries want to work at something other than producing the basic food, shelter, clothing and other products required to sustain life. They usually become a nation of non-producers wanting the disgruntled producers to produce more and more so that privileged individuals of the elite can keep themselves busy as musicians, poets, social workers, philosophers, historians, politicians, bureaucrats, administrators, etc.
The elite will then let, require, and/or force those that the elite have deemed lower class to work hard and produce the food, shelter, and clothing required to sustain the life of the nation including the elite class of the government employees.
Dear John"
Some academic "economic experts" think that the USA can become a "post-industrial" society of "knowledge workers" consisting of software developers, data analysts, technicians, editors, scientists, lab technicians, teachers, doctors, nurses, architects, accountants, engineers, inventors, lawyers, poets, musicians, historians, philosophers, etc, and still somehow generate sufficient wealth to continue payment to foreigners for them to manufacture the food, shelter, clothing and other things that US citizens consume.
How does anyone think that US citizens can get foreigners to pay for (buy) the services of these "US knowledge workers" if their home grown local "knowledge workers" are equal to, or maybe technically superior to, our "US knowledge workers", especially if their home grown local "knowledge workers" will work for less US dollars than US citizens?
Maybe in the future the USA could produce better "knowledge workers", but only if US citizens totally overhauled and changed our educational system to emphasize science, engineering, and technical education instead of the other various non-technical degree majors that most of the US citizen students study today.
To OP: In the future, learn when to turn off caps-lock when making thread titles so possible readers' eye's do not bleed profusely.Edit: Fixed, n/m.
"Look at me, I'm quoting another user to show how wrong I think they are, out of arrogance of my own position. Wait, this is my own quote, oh shi-" ~ Nitroadict
Gerald Spencer: Maybe in the future the USA could produce better "knowledge workers", but only if US citizens totally overhauled and changed our educational system to emphasize science, engineering, and technical education instead of the other various non-technical degree majors that most of the US citizen students study today.
I'm not sure I agree with emphasis on math-leaning education. I am a math teacher, and have had my share of math classes. With that said, math is outsourced for a reason and that reason has nothing to do with difficulty, it is has to do with repetitiveness. Software programs like Maple or SAS (and even most TI-89, 84 or 83 calculators) can do hours of calculus and statistical training with the click of a button. There is no need to take highly intelligent and motivated business individuals or scientists and force them through tedious mathematics. It is like training individuals to count fast in their head or spell. There is merit in math—no doubt—and the public education system is crap, but math emphasis is not the answer.
Read until you have something to write...Write until you have nothing to write...when you have nothing to write, read...read until you have something to write...Jeremiah
Agreed, Knowledge is valuable insofar as it can produce something needed or wanted by a productive society. As current education stands now, the mis-allocation of this capital knowledge is facing the similar effects of government demand putting to use these resources in artificially sustained capital markets. Although it is hard to say how vast the misdirection of time and labor are, i speculated that all areas of education have been effected by some artificial demand created by government effects. Some areas might not have come to exist, others existing outside of private demands, and the rest bolstered by "stimulus".
To quote Snow Crash, America will always be the best at producing three things: weapons, software and movies.
The fallacies of intellectual communism, a compilation - On the nature of power
What is a "citizen"? I am a human being myself.
At most, I think only 5% of the adult population would need to stop cooperating to have real change.
Spideynw: What is a "citizen"? I am a human being myself.
r u sure? Because you sure do look like a car in your picture
A member in full standing of the state.
Dear Jeremiah Dyke:
I am a Mechanical Engineer educated in the 1950's. We had the CRC handbook even in those historic dark ages, and I usually used the CRC after I graduated instead of manually solving calculus problems instead of manually solving those problems. I do think that all technical people need to know how to manually solve calculus, operators and other advanced math even if you can get the answer VIA internet or their hand held calculator.
I am not sure that we can export any of our other services to any other foreign country in return for their currency or gold, unless these services were better or cheaper.
If our products are going to be technically better, then we are going to need more technically qualified citizens, instead of more MBAs, poets, novelists, lawyers and historians.
My mother was a teacher in a two room country school for grades K-12, with outdoor plumbing, and about 25 total students. She says that those were the happiest days of her life. The mothers rotated duty of preparing meals for the entire school so they cooked for everybody every 25 or so days. That is another story.
Dear John:
The US government is then selling (actually exchanging/selling these freshly printed paper US bonds) title to privately owned local US located assets such as US businesses, factories, casinos, hotels, farms, land, ports, businesses, refineries, forests, ports, breweries, refineries, and other assets instead of Gold from Ft. Knox. This is how the US government raises money when their expenses exceed the tax revenue.
The US government raises money for expenses by printing and selling freshly printed paper US bonds that promise that our children and our unborn grandchildren will pay off these debt instruments on the date of the bond maturity with US dollars.
The US obviously has not been producing enough as evidenced by the fact it has the largest current account deficit on the planet with nobody else coming close. Things are still produced/provided for the in the US, however, they are not nearly enough to offset the astronomical amount of consumption based upon the good graces of other countries accepting federal reserve notes for real things.
Don't worry, once the dollar loses its world reserve status, its value will go through the floor, and Americans will no longer be able to afford cheap international products at arbitrarily favorable exchange rates. This means that (a) we're going to have to produce for ourselves, and (b) we're going to need a lot of savings for capital investment, since the vast majority of capital comes to the U.S. from international markets (again, because of the world reserve currency status).
"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."
Gerald Spencer:Real wealth, jobs, industry, and real monetary value is created and/or acquired ONLY when the members of a family (or a nation, city-state, island, tribe, etc.) plant, grow and/or harvest something of commercial value from the earth
Do not mix two difference statement here.
It is true that you cannot trade if you have nothing that the other guy wants, but just as Americans enjoy services so might the “other guys”. Saying that, as the US is a service-based economy it is clear that it will face trade deficits would be untrue. Americans could provide the world with FDIs, financial services, receive tourists, serve as a transit points, in short do tons of stuff to have a favorable trade balance (although there would be no point in having one) without producing a single pin in the States. Physical goods do not equal trade.
The yanks sell assets and face an uncertain future only because they have too high time-preferences (vis-a-vis foreigners). Neither the structure of the economy nor IQ levels have anything to do with it.
EDIT: not to mention that even if it wouldn’t trade at all, the US could still be the richest place on earth provided that it had a liberal economic regime. But of course, that does not apply.
Dear Merlin:
I do not think that foreign individuals or foreign countries would ever purchase very much more (dollar value) of the financial products and/or financial services that the US financial industry creates.
I dont think that any foreigner would pay very much for the services of any US educated liberal arts graduate, MBA graduate, history graduate, philosophy graduate, English graduate, foreign language graduate, economics graduate, musical, artist, social worker, government graduate, political scientist or any of the other similarly educated US citizen, except for the entertainment field.
I do believe that foreigners will continue to buy our movies and music and visit our theme parks and Broadway entertainment venues as tourists. This is just a tiny insignifigant fraction of our overall Trade Deficit.
If we had technically innovative products that foreigners did not have, then we could get high prices for those products with excessive profits (until the foreigners copy our inventions and/or infringe upon our patents). As we have purposefully reduced our human scientific and technology resource bases, the USA has stopped being the country that is creating any new inventions or products.
Only if our services technically superior can we export those services to foreigners in return for foreign payment (gold and US dollars) to the USA
Dear Esuric:
This is what I fear!
We will not then have the capability and/or will to re-start our economy.
My wife believes that the government has secret economic plans that they implement will prevent any economic collapse, and that we do not need to worry.
Most people believe that all they need to do is to be optimistic and things will take care of themselves.
Does anybody believe that the foreign industrial nations will loan us enough money to re-start our industries to supply our citizens the essentials of life after we destroy our economy?
Will any of the citizens that knew how to operate the industries that made the essentials that US citizens needed to sustain life still be alive after the US economy callapses?
Dear Chris:
We do not need to export products and services, we just need to get foreign US dollars, gold and currency back into this nation by other means if possible, and stop the net flow of US dollars, gold, currency, and title to privately owned US assets to foreign countries.
Visit the Texas Medical Center (mostly the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston) and witness the percentage of women wearing Burkas to get a clue or to estimate the percentage of foreign medical service income currency that is received at the Texas Medical Center. I do not believe that any of these women wearing Burkas are US citizens. Foreign currency paid to our US located Medical Doctors, Laboratories and Hospitals by foreigners improves our foreign trade balance. I think that most foreigners still believe that US educated medical doctors are much superior to their own in-country educated medical doctors, and that is the reason that they seek the best medical care available which is in the USA. We must maintain the US leadership in the medical field.
Engineers who are working assignments in Foreign Countries and sending (most of) their dollars home to the USA improves our balance of trade. In the past, foreigners believed that US educated and trained Engineers were superior to their in-country educated Engineers. This advantage has almost disappeared since the USA stopped emphasizing engineering education, science education, and other technical education in our Universities. I have been the engineer of record for the construction of projects in Asia, Europe, Middle East, Caribbean, and South America. US citizens are unaware of the lifestyle advantage that we are accustomed to and take for granted. If our economy collapses, we can become another starving third world country overnight.
Our computer programming technology and expertise (ala Microsoft etc.) helped our balance of payments considerably in the past, but the lack of technical education in this country today has been reduced and will soon totally destroy this export capability, or it already has. The foreign countries have become better than the USA at creating new computer software programs, since the USA has chosen to de-emphasize technical and scientific education in our universities. Asian Countries are now the producers of new computer software technology, not the USA.
Gerald Spencer: Dear Merlin: I do not think that foreign individuals or foreign countries would ever purchase very much more (dollar value) of the financial products and/or financial services that the US financial industry creates. I dont think that any foreigner would pay very much for the services of any US educated liberal arts graduate, MBA graduate, history graduate, philosophy graduate, English graduate, foreign language graduate, economics graduate, musical, artist, social worker, government graduate, political scientist or any of the other similarly educated US citizen, except for the entertainment field. I do believe that foreigners will continue to buy our movies and music and visit our theme parks and Broadway entertainment venues as tourists. This is just a tiny insignifigant fraction of our overall Trade Deficit. If we had technically innovative products that foreigners did not have, then we could get high prices for those products with excessive profits (until the foreigners copy our inventions and/or infringe upon our patents). As we have purposefully reduced our human scientific and technology resource bases, the USA has stopped being the country that is creating any new inventions or products. Only if our services technically superior can we export those services to foreigners in return for foreign payment (gold and US dollars) to the USA
I agree. I’m not advocating eliminating the US trade deficit by specializing in services. I’m only saying that theoretically a service-based economy could easily have a trade surplus (if one considers the sale of services in the trade balance, which most economists do not). To take a real-world example if the City of London where to go independent tomorrow I’m sure that, on counts of its insurance market alone, it would enjoy a massive trade surplus.
But of course the US, as it is, has increasingly little to offer to the world. But here I must repeat what I’ve said elsewhere: if the yanks want to eliminate their deficit they must eliminate their federal, state and local budged deficits, as they show one-to-one in trade deficit. After that only economic liberalization could set the US time preferences to fall again. There is no other way.
As long as USA creates a total gross net flow of gold, US dollars, US bonds, and other negotiable currencies flowing into the USA instead of flowing out of the USA, this would be a positive trade balance.
We have destroyed many of the productive sectors of the US economy such as the manufacturing sector, and US dollars are paid by the importing/distribuiting/retail businesses to foreign people and foreign businesses to make many of the things that we consume
Our computer programming technology and expertise (ala Microsoft etc.) helped our balance of payments considerably in the past, but the lack of technical education in this country today has been reduced and will soon totally destroy this export capability. The foreign countries have become better than the USA at creating new computer software programs, since the USA has chosen to de-emphasize technical and scientific education in our universities. Asian Countries are now the producers of new computer technology, not the USA.
Engineers who are working in Foreign Countries and sending (most of) their dollars home and this improves the USA balance of trade. In the past, foreigners believed that US educated and trained Engineers were superior to their in-country educated Engineers. This advantage has almost disappeared since the USA stopped emphasizing engineering education, science education, and other technical education in our Universities. I have been the engineer of record for the construction of projects in Asia, Europe, Middle East, Caribbean, and South America. US citizens are unaware of the lifestyle advantage that we are accustomed to and take for granted. If our economy collapses, we can become a starving third world country overnight.
Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4
And all of this because there is no incentive in the US to educate one’s self. No one educated Bill Gates, or Einstein, or Tesla. They made themselves, as all entrepreneurs do. If some country, the US in our case, sports a lack of dynamism, it’s all a problem of incentives. If I work hard I get only a marginally better life that the bump who never worked a day. Education is the effect, not the cause. Incentives are all there is to it. Unfortunately, the current US incentive system is unadresable without a major crisis. Who knows what the future shall hold…
Gerald Spencer:This is what I fear!
Don't. It's inevitable really.
Jeremiah Dyke:r u sure? Because you sure do look like a car in your picture
OK, I might be a transformer, but shh!
Stranger: Spideynw: What is a "citizen"? I am a human being myself. A member in full standing of the state.
I just think it should be worded people in the United States area, not citizens.
"As long as USA creates a total gross net flow of gold, US dollars, US bonds, and other negotiable currencies flowing into the USA instead of flowing out of the USA, this would be a positive trade balance."
Voluntary exchange is always "positive" in the sense that both parties subjectively benefit from the exchange. If some Asian company gives a USA company widgets in exchange for green pieces of toilet paper, then clearly the Asian company values the dollars more than the widgets, while the USA company has the opposite take.
"The foreign countries have become better than the USA at creating new computer software programs, since the USA has chosen to de-emphasize technical and scientific education in our universities. Asian Countries are now the producers of new computer technology, not the USA."
Cool, then I can buy cheap computers from them. Meanwhile, Ricardo's Law of Comparative Advantage says that I will be best suited for some task other than making computers. And Say's Law shows that I will have employment (at least in an unhampered market).
"We must maintain the US leadership in the medical field."
Which subjective preferences did you use in arriving at this utilitarian calculation? Which children's mouths will you seize food out of to help pay for this goal?
"If our economy collapses, we can become a starving third world country overnight."
But Federal Reserve Notes are tasty with ketchup.
Dear Baxter:
I am going to open a restruant specializing in US bonds prepared with your selection of catsup, mustard, holindase, bernaise and other specially prepared sauces, complimented with a salad of freshly printed CDOs, SIVs, ABSs, SPVs, VIEs, CPDOs, SiVs, derivatives, and other similar freshly printed "toxic asset products".
I hope to see you as a customer.