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Does anyone ever wish that they never discovered AE?

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FunkedUp Posted: Sat, May 22 2010 11:43 PM

I found out about AE a few years ago, and I've never been the same since. Discovering AE is like taking the "red pill" from the Matrix. Once you learn about it, your world changes and there's not much you can do about it. Lately, I've been quite stressed out with things. Of course they are outside of my control. It seems like there is no hope. Sometime I wish that I never discovered AE and was an ignorant social democrat like everyone else. 

Does anyone wish that they never discovered AE? I'm not sure that I'd go as far as to say that I wish I never found out about it, but how do you guys deal with the stress that comes with it?

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Nielsio replied on Sat, May 22 2010 11:55 PM

In order for society to heal, it must first feel the pain of the disease.

It's not personal.

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Nitroadict replied on Sat, May 22 2010 11:59 PM

No, because:

1.) The Madness of Crowds.  Just because everyone believes something, doesn't necessarily make it true.  Remember Copernicus?  Galileo?  Bit of a lag time in people believing them, & so forth will go for something as economics.  

and

2.) This might vary, but even one thinks they have taken the "red pill", they find more "red pills" they could've or can in-addition, taken/take.  For instance, discovering AE via an Econ class, but only becoming a libertarian and/or anarchist later on after further studying.  

Even then, the "red pill" metaphor can still be applied to any major change in worldview or ascribed ideology, which is evident by many online who go from statist to anti-statist to anarchist to anti-statist to statist (all sorts of other variants in-between), or even non-Austrian Econ to Austrian Econ to Alternative Schools to Neo-Classica to Classical again.

It really depends.  I know plenty of "socialists"  (I'm including pseudo-intellectuals from our high school days when Socialism was the easiest ideology to learn & spout rhetoric about) who stop giving a shit about socialism the moment they started to succeed in life, & saw how capitalism worked out for them, & vice-versa for capitalists who became socialists for when they either had a little bad luck or just stopped being productive and/or got into a work-ethic funk.   

"Look at me, I'm quoting another user to show how wrong I think they are, out of arrogance of my own position. Wait, this is my own quote, oh shi-" ~ Nitroadict

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whoa you think learning about AE is like the red pill

 

learn about THE BILDERBURG GROUP , CFR AND TRILATERAL COMMISSION

now that the red pill

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Nielsio replied on Sun, May 23 2010 3:23 AM

You think?

I'd say AE pretty much predicts those things.

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abskebabs replied on Sun, May 23 2010 4:38 AM

I was rather thinking how unfortunate things would have been if I never came across AE. Worrying about things beyond your control I think is a sure way to depression, I'd concentrate on the controllables and try to bring out the positives in life if I was you.

"When the King is far the people are happy."  Chinese proverb

For Alexander Zinoviev and the free market there is a shared delight:

"Where there are problems there is life."

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nandnor replied on Sun, May 23 2010 6:07 AM

Let go of your moral superiority. Accept moral relativism, accept delusions and cons by politicians, give up on the struggle. Stop reading political and economic articles if necessary. There is nothing we can do to stop it, might as well not let it bother us.

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FunkedUp:

I found out about AE a few years ago, and I've never been the same since. Discovering AE is like taking the "red pill" from the Matrix. Once you learn about it, your world changes and there's not much you can do about it. Lately, I've been quite stressed out with things. Of course they are outside of my control. It seems like there is no hope. Sometime I wish that I never discovered AE and was an ignorant social democrat like everyone else. 

Does anyone wish that they never discovered AE? I'm not sure that I'd go as far as to say that I wish I never found out about it, but how do you guys deal with the stress that comes with it?

 

It's interestingly conincidental that you should mention Austrian  economics and red pills. I have been contemplating a blog post called "Red Pill Economics" or similar for a week or so now.

[Is this an example of "100th monkey" effect?]

What is interesting to me in my work as a personal freedom consultant is the scope [and lack ] of the "red pill effect" in any one individual.

Often there are huge inconsistencies/contradictions from individual to individual, including most "Austrians".

For example, many with a deep understanding of  "red pill economics" [i.e. Austrian economics] are entirely "blue pill" regarding say 9/11, or the OKC bombing, and are incapable of even fairly considering other facts about those events- it is simply too much for them to seriously contemplate. 

On the other hand, for example, almost the entire "911 inside job"  community , the "New World Order" crowd, as well as most true believers in many other assorted  conspiracies , while being 100% "Red pill" about those particular events, are , at the same time, fanatical, "blue pill" statists, and have absolutely no comprehension of "red pill economics" either! 

It seems to me that in general, most "Austrians" , and most "conspiracy theorists", self impose huge psychological disconnects when it comes to looking at areas outside those where the red pill has already effected their world view [in this case either economics or government instigated conspiracies]. 

"Not that there's anything wrong with that......"

Regards, onebornfree.

For more information about onebornfree, please see profile.[ i.e. click on forum name "onebornfree"].

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How does one become a personal freedom consultant exactly?  What is the job description for that?

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Live_Free_Or_Die:

How does one become a personal freedom consultant exactly?  What is the job description for that?

 

It's a long, sordid story.

Other than that:

 "To be is to do"-Socrates;

"To do is to be"-Sartre;

"Do Be Do Be Do"- Frank Sinatra

Regards,onebornfree.

For more information about onebornfree, please see profile.[ i.e. click on forum name "onebornfree"].

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Sieben replied on Sun, May 23 2010 8:23 AM

barack:
learn about THE BILDERBURG GROUP
Actually there are a few documents of the meetings online at wikileaks.org. They really are discussing the future of the world but it is very, very, very boring. They don't seem to be like, allocating any responsibilities or anything. "France, you go into Vietnam for as long as you can stand it, America will come in later" doesn't really appear.

It is just so boring.

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I'd say AE pretty much predicts those things.

Not for a second, in fact, just the opposite is true. Austrian economics has largely been about the implications of spontaneous order theory, explaining how social outcomes arise that weren't guided by anybody, but seem if they were guided by an "invisible hand". Your explanation is just the opposite, its explaining history in terms of a hidden hand, where events are planned in a top down manner.

In fact, its precisely the knowledge problem and unintended consequence arguments again socialism that cut again conspiracy theories too. 

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

Bob Dylan

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Nielsio replied on Sun, May 23 2010 8:47 AM

It's a long, sordid story.

Other than that:

 "To be is to do"-Socrates;

"To do is to be"-Sartre;

"Do Be Do Be Do"- Frank Sinatra

Regards,onebornfree.

Wait... you got that joke from Ajahn Brahm!

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Nielsio replied on Sun, May 23 2010 8:54 AM

hayekianxyz wrote:

Not for a second, in fact, just the opposite is true. Austrian economics has largely been about the implications of spontaneous order theory, explaining how social outcomes arise that weren't guided by anybody, but seem if they were guided by an "invisible hand". Your explanation is just the opposite, its explaining history in terms of a hidden hand, where events are planned in a top down manner.

In fact, its precisely the knowledge problem and unintended consequence arguments again socialism that cut again conspiracy theories too.

In no way are the two mutually exclusive. Hidden hand things can come into existence in an invisible hand world. People doctor up ways to improve their situation based on where they find themselves. This is what happens when people's incentives align. It's not a pure conspiracy, nor is it only aligned incentives; it's both.

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mahsah replied on Sun, May 23 2010 9:49 AM

Good essay related to this topic:

http://faculty.msb.edu/hasnasj/GTWebSite/FeelsLike.htm

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Nielsio:

It's a long, sordid story.

Other than that:

 "To be is to do"-Socrates;

"To do is to be"-Sartre;

"Do Be Do Be Do"- Frank Sinatra

Regards,onebornfree.

Wait... you got that joke from Ajahn Brahm!

 

Never heard of him/her.

Actually, I saw it on a wall, directly in front of me , while "partially drunk" and  taking a leak in a bar restroom , 25 or more years ago. It's stuck with me ever since.

regards onebornfree

For more information about onebornfree, please see profile.[ i.e. click on forum name "onebornfree"].

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"Not for a second, in fact, just the opposite is true. Austrian economics has largely been about the implications of spontaneous order theory, explaining how social outcomes arise that weren't guided by anybody, but seem if they were guided by an "invisible hand". Your explanation is just the opposite, its explaining history in terms of a hidden hand, where events are planned in a top down manner.

In fact, its precisely the knowledge problem and unintended consequence arguments again socialism that cut again conspiracy theories too."

 

But couldn't one just as easily say that the huge number and scope of the world's problems today could be due to errors the central planners have made because of their calculation problems?

Couldn't an Austrian suggest that, in a spontaneous order, with all the technological advances of the 20th century, we should be living in a relative paradise?

Certainly it's debatable how much of this error has been caused by the planning of individual states versus that of a secret world order, but I still think an Austrian could entertain some of these "conspiracy theories" as long as he also believed that they were a hindrance to economic development.

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Mises Pieces:
But couldn't one just as easily say that the huge number and scope of the world's problems today could be due to errors the central planners have made because of their calculation problems?

People have it in their heads that we live in "modern times", but adherence to whatever flavor of statist doctrine is as outmoded as following the myth that the sun revolves around the Earth.

Couldn't an Austrian suggest that, in a spontaneous order, with all the technological advances of the 20th century, we should be living in a relative paradise?

When one understands that states are fueled by, that is they absolutely cannot accomplish anything without initiating aggression (robbing the masses by taxation and inflation), it's readily seen that we—could have been or would be—better off by abolishing statism. This isn't idle speculation but a fact we can apprehend with apodeictic certainty.

Democracy means the opportunity to be everyone's slave.—Karl Kraus.

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John replied on Sun, May 23 2010 10:26 AM

Sometimes i feel the pain of this knowledge. Not for myself, but for others in that another individual without this knowledge in being driven not by their own wants/needs but through their ignorance and short term emotional state of mind.

Watching 'The Anticapitalists:Barbarians at the gate' only confirmed my suspicions based upon my knowledge and comprehension of AE, Property rights, Liberty, Life and the correlation of these elements over time. People without better judgement are driving backwards....they are caught up in their own world devoid of the realization of their actions in the greater society.

I'm not sure it would be correct in saying that people operate under a deep complex web of interconnected feedback loops but it seems that way. They are stuck in this web of action that from the AE perspective is driving out knowledge where as epistemologically, peoples beliefs are given priorities without truths. these beliefs, i feel, rest in a shorter frame of time in the absence of truths which act in a longer reference of time.

But now in light of this new world i find myself in i feel pulled in two directions...i want to move in this 'new world of mine' while the rest of the 'real world' works to pull me in another direction. I find myself in a struggle for mankind as much as mankinds want of me to follow in lock step in their world of spirialing decay.

So now i ask myself... will i have to abandon mankind in order to save myself.

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Giant_Joe replied on Sun, May 23 2010 12:20 PM

Does anyone ever wish that they never discovered AE?

Late 2008 made me question where crashes come from. Not being satisfied with mainstream explanations, I started delving a little deeper. If I hadn't found AE, I'd be busy trying to invent it. My curiosity drove me to find it.

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It is ALWAYS  best to know the truth, however painful. Because you can now make your next move more wisely.

And yeah, it is very stressful, I find. Only the passage of time helps, I find.

And I understand Dr Samuel Johnson better too:

"I wonder what pleasure men can take in making beasts of themselves [by getting drunk]."

"I wonder, Madam," replied the Doctor, "that you have not penetration to see the strong inducement to this excess; for he who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man."

[Don't get me wrong, I dont' drink, much].

My humble blog

It's easy to refute an argument if you first misrepresent it. William Keizer

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Nielsio:

onebornfree wrote:

Never heard of him.

http://www.youtube.com/user/BuddhistSocietyWA

 

Ok, thanks. 

Actually I prefer to get my enlightenment from a master of  "Tae Kwon Leap"

Listen, and be enlightened!

Regards, onebornfree

For more information about onebornfree, please see profile.[ i.e. click on forum name "onebornfree"].

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