Free Capitalist Network - Community Archive
Mises Community Archive
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.

Naked Short Selling

rated by 0 users
Not Answered This post has 0 verified answers | 16 Replies | 5 Followers

Not Ranked
Male
1 Posts
Points 125
Patrick Henry posted on Tue, May 25 2010 8:42 PM

Okay, I'm currently reading an article from Rolling Stone by Matt Taibbi re: naked short selling.  I have to claim near complete ignorance on the subject of naked short selling, but would like to educate myself.  I would also be interested in an Austrian/free market interpretation as to the legitimacy of this type of transaction.   

Please educate me.  Thanks. 

All Replies

Top 50 Contributor
1,649 Posts
Points 28,420

[I. Ryan: Inappropriate picture deleted.]

Democracy means the opportunity to be everyone's slave.—Karl Kraus.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
Male
4,249 Posts
Points 70,775

The little I know about it, nothing wrong with it. An honest voluntary transaction, no cheating or fraud, what's not to like?

My humble blog

It's easy to refute an argument if you first misrepresent it. William Keizer

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 50 Contributor
1,649 Posts
Points 28,420

[I. Ryan: Inappropriate, off-topic comment deleted.]

Democracy means the opportunity to be everyone's slave.—Karl Kraus.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Male
2,687 Posts
Points 48,995

Gary Galles sums up the Austrian position on short selling pretty well: Don't Sell Short Selling Short.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Male
1,687 Posts
Points 22,990
Bogart replied on Tue, May 25 2010 9:31 PM

There is nothing illegitimate or immoral about "Naked" short selling.  Now it is extraordinarily risky and unlike most derivative securities, Naked short selling comes with an exposure to an unlimited downside.  What is immoral and illegitimate is giving someone elses money (normally stolen booty called taxation) to cover the losses of lenders and other financiers who fronted the money for this risk.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 500 Contributor
300 Posts
Points 5,325

Uh, isn't naked shorting where you short something... without even borrowing the shares first?  So what you sell doesn't even exist, right?  How is that not fraud?

EDIT: I just read this explanation, the broker apparently acts as a middleman, making guarantees to the buyer in the naked short sale, so everything is legit.  http://mises.org/daily/3066

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
3,113 Posts
Points 60,515
Esuric replied on Wed, May 26 2010 6:02 AM

Uh, isn't naked shorting where you short something... without even borrowing the shares first?  So what you sell doesn't even exist, right?  How is that not fraud?

No, it exists, and if the market price rises, you're screwed. It's not any more fraudulent then borrowing money you can never repay in order to make a potential fortune in some risky investment.

"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
3,592 Posts
Points 63,685
Sieben replied on Wed, May 26 2010 8:55 AM

I don't understand what people are afraid in all these fancy ways of buying/selling... Liberals seem to think that 'leveraged buyout' means you're doing something wrong... There's no analysis. Just fear.

Banned
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Male
290 Posts
Points 6,115

I really dont care about short selling from a philosophical view.............but.............:

The current role short selling has on the stock market and on every other tradable commodity is just "betting"............I am sick of this casino market which is only supported by the already huge financial sector.

Try short selling your car, tv, play station, house. You find much betting.

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 25 Contributor
Male
4,249 Posts
Points 70,775

From what I hear, short selling serves a valuable purpose. It is something for managment to fear. "If I mess up, the short sellers will ruin me." Sadly I don't exactly grasp how this works.

 

My humble blog

It's easy to refute an argument if you first misrepresent it. William Keizer

  • | Post Points: 5
Not Ranked
35 Posts
Points 585
B-man replied on Wed, May 26 2010 12:20 PM

Generally I am not opposed to naked shorts, they serve as a valuable tool for a business that wishes to control risk exposure, such as an Airline and naked shorts on oil.

However when JP Morgan as custodian for the SLV etf (Silver fund obtained in Bear Stearns meltdown) consistently holds the single largest short position and has direct access to the FRB for dollars to cover all those shorts I suspect blatant manipulation & price supression.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 500 Contributor
Male
290 Posts
Points 6,115
wolfman replied on Wed, May 26 2010 12:50 PM

Excellent.

B-man wrote the following post at Wed, May 26 2010 1:20 PM:

Generally I am not opposed to naked shorts, they serve as a valuable tool for a business that wishes to control risk exposure, such as an Airline and naked shorts on oil.

However when JP Morgan as custodian for the SLV etf (Silver fund obtained in Bear Stearns meltdown) consistently holds the single largest short position and has direct access to the FRB for dollars to cover all those shorts I suspect blatant manipulation & price supression.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
6,885 Posts
Points 121,845

Try short selling your car, tv, play station, house.

You used to be able to do this quite easily... it's called pawning.

Clayton -

http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.com
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 150 Contributor
752 Posts
Points 16,735
Sage replied on Wed, May 26 2010 3:18 PM

Art Carden talked about this at Mises University: Short Selling: Explanation and Defense.

AnalyticalAnarchism.net - The Positive Political Economy of Anarchism

  • | Post Points: 20
Page 1 of 2 (17 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS