I've heard doctors say that vaccines did not eradicate smallpox or polio, and in fact the outbreaks did not decrease after the vaccine was introduced.....what did eradicate those diseases then?
If you could post any sources that would be appreciated.
Thank you
Unfortunatly there is mass ignorance on the subject of vaccinations. Your doctor and the drug companies would like you to believe that vaccinations have indead erradicated serious threats to human health. But that is very wrong.
I do not believe that your average doctor or nurse is intentionally trying to harm you or your child when they suggest vaccinations. They, sadly, are just as ignorant as the mass public, and choose to believe the drug companies claimes that vaccinations are the answer.
Reference the charts below.... In most (if not all cases) these miracle vaccinations that "erradicated" these terrible diseases were only introduced AFTER a major fall in the death rate due to the disease.
Polio deaths were almost nonexistant BEFORE the vaccine was introduced- and there was a minor rise in deaths after the introduction. Several years after the definintion of polio was changed and all deaths were blaimed on other diseases...
The doctors , assuming the vaccination was flawless, saw patients who appeared to have polio and had been vaccinated and thought it couldnt have possibly been polio ! And therefor the diagnosis was not polio
This web site contains some very interesting information about polio
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/polio1.html
"Polio has not been eradicated by vaccination, it is lurking behind a redefinition and new diagnostic names like viral or aseptic meningitis.......According to one of the 1997 issues of the MMWR, there are some 30,000 to 50,000 cases of viral meningitis per year in the United States alone. That's where all those 30,000 - 50,000 cases of polio disappeared after the introduction of mass vaccination"---Viera Scheibner
Polio has not been erradicated but meerly redifined. Since the introduction of the vaccine and the supposed "erradication" of this disease new cases of polio are now labeled as other dieseases i am sure you have heard of
Viral or aseptic meningitis, Guillaine Barre Syndrome (GBS), Chinese Paralytic syndrome, CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROME, epidemic cholera, cholera morbus, spinal meningitis, spinal apoplexy, inhibitory palsy, intermittent fever, famine fever, worm fever, bilious remittent fever, ergotism, ME, post-polio syndrome, acute flaccid paralysis Synonyms for GBS]
There has also been similarity drawn to pellagra, beriberi, and other deficiency diseases.
I encourage you to research polio and some of these other diseases to see the similarities for yourself
Nutritional deficiencies! If you do some of your own research on food around the turn of the last century you will find that for the first time in history of mankind the mass public has turned entirely to store bought processed foods instead of growing raising and making all of their own food.
Outbreaks of Beri beri ( the deficiency disease listed above) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriberi, and mental insanity were reported after wheat processors and distrubuters began to take the wheat germ out of their flour to produce a longer lasting product. The wheat germ contains vital nutrients ( specifically thiamine b1)but also causes the flour to spoil quicker. This also applies to many other grains and foods. As it seems the vitamin rich parts of the food cause spoilage they are removed so that food suppliers can store the items for long peroids of time.
Food companies began to ENRICH ( ever look at your box of morning cereal, it has most likely been enriched) their products with synthetic vitamins to make up for the vitamins lost during processing.
This seems to have cleared up most of the major ( and OBVIOUS) health problems caused by food processing. However i strongly believe that this food enriched with synthetic vitamins still pales in comparison to real whole food
So now , because vaccinations have been touted as the cure for these diseases people get more and more vaccinations instead of strengthening their bodies with good nutrition.
Another note on polio vaccinations.
Between 1955 and 1963 at least 30 million doses of polio vaccination were contaminated with SV40 a monkey virus that has been linked to several times of cancer including brain and mesothelioma
THis is fact check out the information on the CDC website
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/updates/archive/polio_and_cancer.htm#5
There have been many reports of other vaccinations being contaminated
for example recently ( THIS YEAR) there has been pig Virus DNA Found in Rotarix vaccination given to children
http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/April-2010/Vaccine-Contamination-Pig-Virus-DNA-Found-in-Rota.aspx
If you follow your doctors direction in regards to your childs health they will suggest up to 50 doses of vaccination by the age of 5.
If you do your own research you will find that ,like these early vaccinations, there is very little proof that ANY vaccination works, along with lots of proof that vaccines cause many health problems.
The risks outweigh any perceived benefit-- especially when we are dealing with young, developing children
Nutrition is the answer
not vaccination
MaikU:In any discussion involving science or medicine, citing Whale.to as a credible source loses you the argument immediately..and gets you laughed out of the room.
I don't know the answer to the OP, but this Mises daily article explains the history behind people injecting us with poison for a living.
Back in the 1800s, mainstream medicine was called allopathy. It consisted of "bloodletting and high-dose injections of metal and metalloid compounds containing mercury or antimony." Homeopaths, on the other hand, emphasized diet, hygiene, and stress-reduction. Unsurprisingly, homeopathy worked sometimes and allopathy didn't. So in 1910, the Carnegie Foundation stepped in, labeled the homeopaths "quacks," and closed down all the medical schools except those that would support the pharmaceutical industry.
It's one of the best Mises dailies I've read so far. Fascinating stuff.
Snowflake,
I notice that your data, wherever it came from (I don't consider data without a source to be credible, by the way) does not even bother providing the data for the textbook example for the advocacy of vaccines: small pox. Ergo, it is guilty of sample bias.
Abstract liberty, like other mere abstractions, is not to be found.
- Edmund Burke
Again, without wanting to do too much research, I have procured the following:
source: Sinclair, I. , 1992: Vaccination: the hidden facts, Ian Sinclair, Ryde, NSW.
It appears in this article on smallpox.
Anyway, as far as I can see, some vaccines seems to really nab the disease, and some don't. I think vaccines are one method of stopping disease. I don't think we should let the failure of vaccines from 50 or more years ago discourage what we think current vaccine treatments can do. By the same token, there's a lot to be said about the role of nutrition in a healthy immune system.
Here's a random theory:
Vaccines actually did work for smallpox, successfully eradicating the disease. Then someone said, "Hey, let's figure out vaccines for all these other terrible diseases. That would be great!" Unfortunately, none of the other vaccines worked very well. But since they worked for smallpox, everyone was grateful for this "miracle" technology and got the shots anyway. Vaccine companies started making a lot of dough. As the evidence that the vaccines didn't actually work gradually built up, it was discredited or suppressed to protect big pharma's interests. So today we're stuck with a few vaccines that actually work and a whole bunch that do nothing except give us horrible side-effects.
I have Lyme disease, which is caused by a really nasty bacteria called a spirochete (same organism that causes syphilus). A Lyme vaccine called LYMErix developed by GlaxoSmithKline was approved by the FDA in 1998. It was a complete and utter failure, which is no surprise if you actually understand the complexity of the disease. Hardly anyone bought it, and many recipients experienced bad side effects. It was pulled from the market in 2002. Meanwhile, all the "experts" at the CDC and IDSA who developed the "official" guidelines for treating Lyme (which are completely arbitrary and cause doctors to mistreat the disease) had huge stakes in the development of the vaccine. The guidelines also serve the Insurance industry by saving from paying for long-term antibiotic treatment. And guess what? The doctors who wrote the guidelines were also insurance company cronies.
The pharmaceutical industry does not want to cure diseases. Farmers do not want hunger to disappear. Like war is the health of the state, disease is the health of big pharma. It's no wonder that none of their synthetic concoctions work, and that they constantly suppress the healing power of natural substances, which are harder to profit from.
I thought smallpox was a relatively unique disease, in that humans had been inoculating themselves against it for thousands of years via varying methods/rituals?
In any case, these graphs depict the mortality rates of the diseases. I'm inclined to think mortality rates would decline in the latter part of the 19th century and into the 20th century by virtue of the industrial revolution, not necessarily vaccines. What I'm interested in is the prevalence of infection following vaccinations, as many of these diseases are rather minor and survivable in any case. Is there in data on that?
You post graphs like that on an Austrian economics board? The school of economics that rejects empiricism? Let's look at some lurking variables.
1. Transition from war-time. Was Polio contracted because of travelling to other places during WWII? Why don't we have any info before 1950? WWI looks to have caused spikes in some of these diseases.
2. Healthcare was becoming better overall.
3. Penicillin! Whopping cough is caused by a bacteria. Scarlet fever is caused by a bacteria. Diphtheria is caused by a bacteria. Around the 1940s Penicillin was introduced.
4. Cleanliness. As we grow richer, sanitation becomes better. As such, you'll get lower contraction of diseases.
I wouldn't think that this kind of irrational skepticism would be present on this board. There is all the scientific basis for vaccines in the world. If you distrust vaccines then you just don't understand the immune system. I'm studying science so that we'll progress and people will live longer despite the ranting of people arguing irrationally about something they know nothing about.
Yes, I am a huge Dodgers fan.
Anti-state since I learned about the Cuban Revolution and why my dad had to flee the country.
Beer, Guns and Baseball My blog
I just listened to a LR podcast, and the contributor Dr. Miller talked about vaccienes, polio and smallpox among them. One Dr. Miller's articles was "a user friendly guide to vaccienes". I found it fascinating, as I have 2 daughters and the amount of vaccienes "reccommended" is truly staggering. He has some other great topics too that go quite against the medical establishment.
As someone who read a few different books (from mainstream to definitely not mainstream) on vaccines, I think it's safe to say this is a highly contentious issue. Do vaccines work? Yes, most likely so. However, there can be (and are) significant risks involved.
As for smallpox and polio, both diseases were on the decline when the vaccines were introduced. Some diseases (bubonic plague, anyone?) went away on their own so it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility they would've been eradicated naturally. The rise of sewage systems, access to clean water, overall improvements in nutrition, overall improvements in medicine, urban sprawl, and other factors all contributed to the decline of these highly contagious diseases. To say vaccines solely eradicated various diseases is, in my opinion, to take a very narrow view of epidemiology.
Also, I assume everyone here is weary of government intervention in free markets. This also holds true for vaccines; you should also be very weary of the significant conflicts of interest inherent in the CDC. As an example, one of the doctors (Dr. Paul Offit) who helps decides (or, at the very least, did decide) the vaccine schedule also holds a co-patent on a rotavirus vaccine. Hmmm...
For someone looking into vaccines, check out this video on YouTube for a pretty level-headed discussion on the risks and benefits of vaccines as well as the history of some of the vaccines and diseases (most of the reference material is taken directly from the CDC itself).
I think we can all agree, that whoever eradicated such deseases.. it wasn't the government, lol.
Science and knowledge is the answer, not propaganda and scare-tactics by ignorant people from anti-vaccine and anti-science movments.. In short, think critically. When I want to know the truth in some field, I look for the expert and not amateur opinion. If I want to know if vaccines work, I ask this question immunologist, not chiropractor or homeopathic "doctor".
(english is not my native language, sorry for grammar.)
Then i encourage you to do so
The information i posted is not at all anti science So do not group the two together
Those graphs are misleading. Vaccines are supposed to prevent infection. Show us the infection rates, those graphs mean next to nothing in this context
MIsguidedOpinions: Those graphs are misleading. Vaccines are supposed to prevent infection. Show us the infection rates, those graphs mean next to nothing in this context
Exactly. Vaccines are for preventing infections, not for healing already existing infections. For the latter you need antibiotics or other drugs. In any case, basic hygiene and good nutrition prevents many infections and helps the immune system, respectively.