I feel like there are so many people today who are outwardly supporting communism/socialism/progressivism. Were there always this many people supporting these failed political and economical ideologies throughout history in the United States, or have they increased in population a lot in recent times?
Why do you have so many problems?
@op, I would say most don't see their progressivism as communism/socialism/fascism. I know several liberal-progressive types that are pretty ignorant of the true nature of their own ideology. I don't think liberal-progressive intellectuals and leaders are ignorant of this, but your typical liberal-progressive sure is. My .02.
www.skylerjcollins.com www.libertysearch.info
Yeah, because I wasn't really sure if a lot of these people are kind of ignorant to history where it's been tried, or if they actually thought it wasn't implemented "correctly". I feel like progressivism is all pathos not logos.
What do you know about my problems? I'm just telling you that you make A LOT of stupid threads.
Democracy means the opportunity to be everyone's slave.—Karl Kraus.
http://mises.org/Community/groups/memberissues/forum/t/18269.aspx
O.o
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.... I see a banhammer has been used here... But anyway
I don't feel as though there are actually that many people advocating communism or socialism, and I'd be amazed if (in America at least) there are more socialists/communists now both percentage wise, and possibly even in terms of real numbers, than there were in the early 1900's, and I don't know where you are seeing them.
As for progressivism and modern liberalism they are growing because A. The republicans f***ed up big time and made their entire ideology look like a bunch of old idiots from the south and B. The term "liberal" has so much more power than conservative and has so thoroughly targeted and infected the younger generation. Fortunatly this is beginning to be offset by the former bombshell, but now obvious fail, that is Obama.
If you could more thoroughly explain where you are percieving this it may clarify what you are asking for the more extreme left ideologies
I think you said it above actually. I'm in college right now, and it really might just because younger people see 'liberal' as being more of a tolerant political party. There are barely any students in the College Republicans club at our university, but everyone loves Obama so much. I hope they'll see the truth as they get older and it just so happens they don't fully understanding everything right now.
The republicans f***ed up big time and made their entire ideology look like a bunch of old idiots from the south and B.
Agreed. Whenever I tell someone I'm conservative/libertarian, they look at me like I just got back from a gay-bashing and a KKK meeting for no reason when I actually simply mean that I want the government to get out of my life. They hear "universal healthcare" and somehow think the government has found a way for it to be free. It's quite hard to make "everything has to work for what they get" sound compassionate and understanding.
This is a sad state of affairs. "Liberal" implies "freedom" and a "hands off" policy. Yet these people who call themselves liberals have problems tolerating people of different lifestyles and opinions and wish to force acceptance of certain groups of people. They have a "liberal" ethic and it's been around a long time. They want to impose their "liberal ethic" on other people, because they see it as superior and more humane... But isn't trying to force preservation of a certain way of living a "conservative" thing?
We have democrats who wish to force liberalism, which is some kind of a conradictory/post-modern approach on the one hand, and we have neo-conservatives on the other. Both parties are trying to force values on people. Both parties wish to instill certain ethics, morals, and values in people by any almost any means necessary, including force. Thankfully, people are reacting to this conservatism, and are starting to look at libertarianism, which is the liberal response to big government and government force.
"I'm in college right now"
Oh wow you should have said. Yea colleges are just about as "left" as you can go by and large, and yes it is more often than not because they totally misunderstand the argument from freedom, many are socialists but this is not a reflection of the general population percentage wise.
"Agreed. Whenever I tell someone I'm conservative/libertarian, they look at me like I just got back from a gay-bashing and a KKK meeting for no reason when I actually simply mean that I want the government to get out of my life."
Really? They do this when you use the term "libertarian"? In my experience that label is infinitely more respected than "conservative" and the two aren't too connected.
Have you ever read any of Rand's stuff? I've found that some of the less self righteous arguments in her work are very good for those who are ignorant of the libertarian perspective, but you're right it's practically impossible to, in a short period of time, attack the ideologies of the left when they are not familiar with any of your arguments and are often quite unsympathetic to your general rhetoric. I find the best argument is the "freedom of competition" aspect, so for instance "I want competition to provide the best healthcare service, not for it to be taken over by the same people who gave us the DMV (and a special little thing to throw in there for your liberal colleagues :) and the failure of a war in Iraq, I want the people to decide and search to find the best solution, not for a solution to be imposed on them which stifles all alternatives that could come from thousands of potential sources"
I bought Woods' Nullification a couple of days ago and am half way through. I would have to say that this issue, like several others concerning ideology, is an issue of education.
"All men having power ought to be distrusted to a certain degree." -James Madison
"If government were efficient, it would cease to exist."
In my experience that label is infinitely more respected than "conservative" and the two aren't too connected.
Half of the time it's probably because I say 'conservative' when I'm talking about old conservatism and 'current' libertarianism. I always correct myself eventually, but somehow people tend to think that people will always misbehave without the government around to control. Many tend to see slavery as a result of letting too many rich people do what they want, and they get corporatism confused with capitalism.
I agree that it's all about education.
As Mises and Hayek noted, whenever the government engenders a crisis, there is a choice between more intervention and more freedom. Perhaps therefore it is natural during a time like this one (recession, health care reform, etc) for people to be more motivated to gravitate more strongly to one side or the other, as the potential benefits from doing so are greater, or perhaps for extra-rational reasons such as a sense of the importance of the question.
I'm also in college right now. I try to tell people that I'm an ancap. They scoff and look at me like I'm crazy.
Be responsible, ease suffering; spay or neuter your pets.
We must get them to understand that government solutions are the problem!
Most people have the same intellect when they are adults as when they were kids. Whatever is popular is cool and whatever is unpopular gets scoffed at. Just the way the dim cookie crumbles.
"Most people have the same intellect when they are adults as when they were kids. Whatever is popular is cool and whatever is unpopular gets scoffed at. Just the way the dim cookie crumbles."
While this is pretty true the situation is reasonable as many "anarchists" are batshit crazy
Another problem: Many older adults vote the way their children (who are socialists) tell them to vote.
I know many examples from people older than me.
Idk... I think once people get into the work force they realize that life is not that hard. Even if they think capitalists are exploiting them its still... not that hard. Especially for the historically unprecedented quality of life we now enjoy.
I think this tones down a lot of the marxist vitreol. College students are very political but once they get a job, they realize their fears are completely bunk. The toiling exploited marxian worker is not at all embodied by the ESPN surfing, coffee break takin, community college MBA desk jockey. The leftist worldview doesn't match up with people's personal lives. They have to look to sensationalized events like the BP oil spill before they can blame capitalism.