This guy and I are debating about free market regulation and he's brought up what I currently believe to be a valid point.
-Basically, like everyone else, he assumes only government can/should regulate. I brought up that third party private regulation agencies are totally fine from a free market perspective and he's conceded with the regulation lobbying that has taken place in these times.
-So we're at present discussing these issues:
1) How could a free market deal with businessmen attempting to lobby politicians? I'm a market "anarchist", but in a minarchist state where gov't is only supposed to provide defense, what could be done about businessmen trying to re-integrate the government into the economy for special grants?
2) Private regulation "lobbying" where the private regulation agencies and companies engage in shady practice. I've brought up that competition would stifle this to a great degree but what else could be done?
3) Could there possibly be laws against the businessment attempting to lobby politicians in a minarchist society, and laws against shady regulation practices?
"1) How could a free market deal with businessmen attempting to lobby politicians? I'm a market "anarchist", but in a minarchist state where gov't is only supposed to provide defense, what could be done about businessmen trying to re-integrate the government into the economy for special grants?"
1. Not have a minarchist state. All this means is that being "the state" does not give a special priveledge
2. Failing 1, making the minarchist states really small, businessmen can't do as much with not much minarchist state.
3. Failing 1, making it really hard to change existing law. 4. Failing 1, setting impediments to lobbying.
(note, 2 and 3 were tried to a certain degree during Articles of Confederation, what could they have produced had they not been dethroned by the constitution).
"2) Private regulation "lobbying" where the private regulation agencies and companies engage in shady practice. I've brought up that competition would stifle this to a great degree but what else could be done?"
For lobbying within non-government businesses, it happens all of the time and would most likely continue to happen it just isn't called lobbying (as lobbying connotates government ). Lobbying may actually be beneficial in some circumstances. But the only test is the market, companies that implement bad advice will become unprofitable.
Remember that lobbying only has a negetive connotation within the political spectrum because it brings up images of corrupt lobbyers influencing regulators, but the practice itself is merely influence, which depending on the means used, may not be bad at all. In fact, lobbying could be a potential source for reducing government power by advocating a law repeal or other reduction in government power. Lobbying itself isn't bad, what is important is the means used and attempted end.
"3) Could there possibly be laws against the businessment attempting to lobby politicians in a minarchist society, and laws against shady regulation practices?"
There could, but the issue is if the laws will not be followed, reinterpreted to premit it to some degree, or repealed.
Schools are labour camps.
well to start off, what constitutes as a minarchist society? All minarchist society have different laws, regulations, etc. In order for this debate to continue there needs to be an outline on what you mean by a minarchist society. Limited government is still government. It is still going to have its inefficentcies.
My Blog: http://www.anarchico.net/
Production is 'anarchistic' - Ludwig von Mises
Corruption can happen in private business, too - a hired manager may pursue his interests instead of the firm's ones. Basically, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principal-agent_problem.
If we extend the definition of lobbying to apply to corruption in private companies (which it usually doesn't), then I think it cannot be completely eliminated by any system, though bought shooting corrupted managers and firing them may provide strong incentives for fair play.
Talk about proportionality of punishment vs crime...
Its true this problem cannot be eliminated no matter what you do. Only thing you can do is to minimize it. Only way it can be done is through decentralization of power, because power over others is what breeds corruption.
There wouldn't be any lobbying in a free market.
Lobbying is a function of diverting resources from productive and profitable individuals and enterprises to wasteful, inefficient, and corrupt politically connected enterprises and individuals.
Lobbying is simply the means by which failing firms use to forestall collapse at the hands of more efficient competitors.
In the free market the only 'lobbying' will be by producing superior goods and services at a more favorable price.
IN sum, the free market lobbying mechanism involves productive companies wooing potential consumers with quality and price -- in contrast, statist lobbying involves unproductive companies wooing policy makers with campaign contributions in order to obtain some preferential regulatory regime.
note that every line in the US tax code was added by a self-serving politician to benefit one of his inefficient and unproductive cronies in the private sector at the expense of a competitive firm and the overall economic health and well-being of society.
unfortunately, this' death by a thousand tiny cuts' does not immediately effect the well being of the average American since its immediate effects are directed against a very small segment of the economy each time it is employed.
NOnetheless, it kills slowly and surely.
Liberalism differs radically from anarchism. It has nothing in common with the absurd illusions of the anarchists... Liberalism is not so foolish as to aim at the abolition of the state.-- von Mises, Omnipotent Government
im_retarded: "1) How could a free market deal with businessmen attempting to lobby politicians? I'm a market "anarchist", but in a minarchist state where gov't is only supposed to provide defense, what could be done about businessmen trying to re-integrate the government into the economy for special grants?" It can't solve this problem.It's inherent to any government especially 'state democracy'.
It can't solve this problem.It's inherent to any government especially 'state democracy'.
I don't really want to comment or read anything here.I have near zero in common with many of you.I may return periodically when there's something you need to know.
Near Mutualist/Libertarian Socialist.
As long as there is government, particularily a democratic one, there will always be lobbying. Rent seeking has always been a response to a coercive monopoly that yields as much power (from and through) theft. Eliminate the state, eliminate lobbying.
The OP is wondering on the concept of lobbying void of government. So he has not used the word lobbying in it's literal definition.
I could imagine a type of 'lobbying' in the free market. Take for example experts 'lobbying' or formally attemtping to influence the decisions of a free market version of Underwriters Laboratories.
You can't hurry up good times by waiting for them.
Who do you lobby to in a free market?
"Who do you lobby to in a free market?"
We are applying the definition of lobby to organizations and people when it is normally reserved for government. But yes, lobbying, in the strictist sense of the word, is incompatible with ancap.