I'm looking for passages that expressly defend voluntarism in the bible. I'm not that well versed in it yet so I dont know where to look.
If anyone knows of a passage forbidding christians from ruling others coercively or anything of that nature could you post it? I seem to recall a passage of that nature But I haven't found it.
There's a whole section in this book, Mainspring of Human Progress, that deals with that but I can't recall if they cite specific passages.
There are many parts in the Bible where the "good guys" steal land and kill for seemingly no reason. But to answer your question you should check out 1 Samuel 8. In this passage God specifically warns them about statism and what will happen when they appoint a king like the neigboring countries.
"10 So Samuel spoke all the words of the LORD to the people who had asked of him a king. 11 He said, “This will be the procedure of the king who will reign over you: he will take your sons and place them for himself in his chariots and among his horsemen and they will run before his chariots. 12 “He will appoint for himself commanders of thousands and of fifties, and some to do his plowing and to reap his harvest and to make his weapons of war and equipment for his chariots. 13 “He will also take your daughters for perfumers and cooks and bakers. 14 “He will take the best of your fields and your vineyards and your olive groves and give them to his servants. 15 “He will take a tenth of your seed and of your vineyards and give to his officers and to his servants. 16 “He will also take your male servants and your female servants and your best young men and your donkeys and use them for his work. 17 “He will take a tenth of your flocks, and you yourselves will become his servants. 18 “Then you will cry out in that day because of your king whom you have chosen for yourselves, but the LORD will not answer you in that day.” 19 Nevertheless, the people refused to listen to the voice of Samuel, and they said, “No, but there shall be a king over us, 20 that we also may be like all the nations, that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles.” 21 Now after Samuel had heard all the words of the people, he repeated them in the LORD’S hearing. 22 The LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to their voice and appoint them a king.” So Samuel said to the men of Israel, “Go every man to his city.”"
"I cannot prove, but am prepared to affirm, that if you take care of clarity in reasoning, most good causes will take care of themselves, while some bad ones are taken care of as a matter of course." -Anthony de Jasay
See my below article:
James Redford, author of "Jesus Is an Anarchist," revised and expanded edition, June 1, 2006 (first published at Anti-State.com on December 19, 2008) http://praxeology.net/anarchist-jesus.pdf
"Jesus Is an Anarchist", Dec. 4, 2011 http://ssrn.com/abstract=1337761
Theophysics http://theophysics.host56.com
This site is rather extensive:
http://members.aol.com/VFTfiles/thesis/summaryAT.htm
The atoms tell the atoms so, for I never was or will but atoms forevermore be.
Yours sincerely,
Physiocrat
Physiocrat: This site is rather extensive: http://members.aol.com/VFTfiles/thesis/summaryAT.htm
Awesome essay. Thanks for the link.
Gary North has written extensively about free markets and the Bible.
http://www.garynorth.com/public/department57.cfm
Here are a few I know of:
Proverbs 6:6-8 6 Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: 7 Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, 8 Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest.
"As long as there are sovereign nations possessing great power, war is inevitable."
Solid_Choke: 19 Nevertheless, the people refused to listen to the voice of Samuel, and they said, “No, but there shall be a king over us, 20 that we also may be like all the nations, that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles.” 21 Now after Samuel had heard all the words of the people, he repeated them in the LORD’S hearing. 22 The LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to their voice and appoint them a king.” So Samuel said to the men of Israel, “Go every man to his city.”"
19 Nevertheless, the people refused to listen to the voice of Samuel, and they said, “No, but there shall be a king over us, 20 that we also may be like all the nations, that our king may judge us and go out before us and fight our battles.” 21 Now after Samuel had heard all the words of the people, he repeated them in the LORD’S hearing. 22 The LORD said to Samuel, “Listen to their voice and appoint them a king.” So Samuel said to the men of Israel, “Go every man to his city.”"
Notice that those are the same arguments presented by non-libertarians today: national defense, and the rule of law. Nothing has changed, and, unfortunately, the Samuels of the world have not yet succeeded in persuading the masses.
Ironically, it says right in the Bible that loyalty to the State is disloyalty to Jehovah.
1 Samuel 8:4-22 - [Verse 7 in Original Hebrew] 4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, 5 And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. 6 But the thing displeased F34 Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. 7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
Hi Mr. Banned & Austrian folks,
I'd like to add my 5-cents to this thread.
I haven't studied the New Testament, however I'm able to recall some relevant parts in the Old Testament which contain laws forbidding coercion and commanding fair business procedures:
Leviticus 19:1-20:27:
11. You shall not steal. You shall not deny falsely. You shall not lie, one man to his fellow. 13. You shall not oppress your fellow. You shall not rob. The hired worker's wage shall not remain with you overnight until morning. 33. When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not taunt him. 34. The stranger who sojourns with you shall be as a native from among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. 36. You shall have true scales, true weights, a true ephah (measure for dry bulks), and as true hin (measure for liquids).
The remaining texts are extracted from the classical Pirkei Avot ("Ethics of the Fathers"), which is one of my favorites:
On guv'mint:
Ch. 2.3. Be careful with the government, for they befriend a person only for their own needs. They appear to be friends when it is beneficial to them, but they do not stand by a person at the time of his distress. On property: Ch. 2.12. Rabbi Yossei would say: The property of your fellow should be as precious to you as your own. An insight on the conflicting roles of faith in God x faith in guv'mint: Ch. 3.5. Rabbi Nechunia the son of Hakanah would say: One who accepts upon himself the yoke of Torah (Divine Law) is exempted from the yoke of government duties and the yoke of worldly cares; but one who casts off the yoke of Torah is saddled with the yoke of government duties and the yoke of worldly cares. On voluntarism and free will: Ch. 3.15. All is foreseen, and freedom of choice is granted. The world is judged with goodness, but in accordance with the amount of man's positive deeds. An interesting text which has dual interpretation - both in the literal, i.e., business-related meaning and also in the spiritual context: Ch. 3.16. He (Rabbi Akiva) would also say: Everything is placed in pledge, and a net is spread over all the living. The store is open, the storekeeper extends credit, the account-book lies open, the hand writes, and all who wish to borrow may come and borrow. The collection-officers make their rounds every day and exact payment from man, with his knowledge and without his knowledge. Their case is well founded, the judgement is a judgement of truth, and ultimately, all is prepared for the feast. [a bit mystical, this ending...] Hope this helps. Kind regards from Rio, R. Halevy
On property:
Ch. 2.12. Rabbi Yossei would say: The property of your fellow should be as precious to you as your own.
An insight on the conflicting roles of faith in God x faith in guv'mint:
Ch. 3.5. Rabbi Nechunia the son of Hakanah would say: One who accepts upon himself the yoke of Torah (Divine Law) is exempted from the yoke of government duties and the yoke of worldly cares; but one who casts off the yoke of Torah is saddled with the yoke of government duties and the yoke of worldly cares.
On voluntarism and free will:
Ch. 3.15. All is foreseen, and freedom of choice is granted. The world is judged with goodness, but in accordance with the amount of man's positive deeds.
An interesting text which has dual interpretation - both in the literal, i.e., business-related meaning and also in the spiritual context:
Ch. 3.16. He (Rabbi Akiva) would also say: Everything is placed in pledge, and a net is spread over all the living. The store is open, the storekeeper extends credit, the account-book lies open, the hand writes, and all who wish to borrow may come and borrow. The collection-officers make their rounds every day and exact payment from man, with his knowledge and without his knowledge. Their case is well founded, the judgement is a judgement of truth, and ultimately, all is prepared for the feast. [a bit mystical, this ending...]
Hope this helps.
Kind regards from Rio,
R. Halevy
As well, my arguments were developed entirely on my reading of scripture, and not any other anti-state Christian works (as well as on my own previous deep understanding of veridical economics and veridical political theory, as I was a Rothbardian before I was a born again Christian; although the two positions are anything but far removed, and indeed compliment each other very nicely). So the arguments therein are not cribbed together from previous anarchist Christian works--modern ones, that is, for as I demonstrate, the New Testament is a free-market anarchist work.
That all is to say, one will come across no other extant work on this subject which is better than my own--not even close. That being said in exception of the New Testament, as Jesus Christ already laid down in His teachings a logically complete ethical system of voluntary interpersonal relationships, of which necessarily logically excludes the state.
So what is said above is not said out of self-puffery, but rather because truth deserves a vigorous and unapologetic defense. So it is only natural that I wish to direct people to where they may find it.
Again, for my work on this issue, see:
James Redford, "Jesus Is an Anarchist," revised and expanded edition, June 1, 2006 (first published at Anti-State.com on December 19, 2008) http://praxeology.net/anarchist-jesus.pdf
Thanks a bunch everybody.
In addition to the foregoing, another matter which is of close relevance to this subject is the fact that God has been proven to exist based upon the most reserved view of the known laws of physics. For much more on that, see Prof. Frank J. Tipler's below paper, which among other things demonstrates that the known laws of physics (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, general relativity, quantum mechanics, and the Standard Model of particle physics) require that the universe end in the Omega Point (the final cosmological singularity and state of infinite informational capacity identified as being God):
F. J. Tipler, "The structure of the world from pure numbers," Reports on Progress in Physics, Vol. 68, No. 4 (April 2005), pp. 897-964. http://math.tulane.edu/~tipler/theoryofeverything.pdf Also released as "Feynman-Weinberg Quantum Gravity and the Extended Standard Model as a Theory of Everything," arXiv:0704.3276, April 24, 2007. http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.3276
Out of 50 articles, Prof. Tipler's above paper was selected as one of 12 for the "Highlights of 2005" accolade as "the very best articles published in Reports on Progress in Physics in 2005 [Vol. 68]. Articles were selected by the Editorial Board for their outstanding reviews of the field. They all received the highest praise from our international referees and a high number of downloads from the journal Website." (See Richard Palmer, Publisher, "Highlights of 2005," Reports on Progress in Physics. http://www.iop.org/EJ/journal/-page=extra.highlights/0034-4885 ) Reports on Progress in Physics is the leading journal of the Institute of Physics, Britain's main professional body for physicists.
Further, Reports on Progress in Physics has a higher impact factor (according to Journal Citation Reports) than Physical Review Letters, which is the most prestigious American physics journal (one, incidently, which Prof. Tipler has been published in more than once). A journal's impact factor reflects the importance the science community places in that journal in the sense of actually citing its papers in their own papers. (And just to point out, Tipler's 2005 Reports on Progress in Physics paper could not have been published in Physical Review Letters since said paper is nearly book-length, and hence not a "letter" as defined by the latter journal.)
See also the below resources for further information on the Omega Point Theory:
Theophysics http://geocities.com/theophysics/
"Omega Point (Tipler)," Wikipedia, April 16, 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Omega_Point_%28Tipler%29&oldid=206077125
"Frank J. Tipler," Wikipedia, April 16, 2008 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Frank_J._Tipler&oldid=205920802
Tipler is Professor of Mathematics and Physics (joint appointment) at Tulane University. His Ph.D. is in the field of global general relativity (the same rarefied field that Roger Penrose and Stephen Hawking developed), and he is also an expert in particle physics and computer science. His Omega Point Theory has been published in a number of prestigious peer-reviewed physics and science journals in addition to Reports on Progress in Physics, such as Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society (one of the world's leading astrophysics journals), Physics Letters B, the International Journal of Theoretical Physics, etc.
Prof. John A. Wheeler (the father of most relativity research in the U.S.) wrote that "Frank Tipler is widely known for important concepts and theorems in general relativity and gravitation physics" on pg. viii in the "Foreword" to The Anthropic Cosmological Principle (1986) by cosmologist Prof. John D. Barrow and Tipler, which was the first book wherein Tipler's Omega Point Theory was described.
The leading quantum physicist in the world, Prof. David Deutsch (inventor of the quantum computer, being the first person to mathematically describe the workings of such a device, and winner of the Institute of Physics' 1998 Paul Dirac Medal and Prize for his work), endorses the physics of the Omega Point Theory in his book The Fabric of Reality (1997). For that, see:
David Deutsch, extracts from Chapter 14: "The Ends of the Universe" of The Fabric of Reality: The Science of Parallel Universes--and Its Implications (London: Allen Lane The Penguin Press, 1997), ISBN: 0713990619; with additional comments by Frank J. Tipler. http://geocities.com/theophysics/deutsch-ends-of-the-universe.html
The only way to avoid the Omega Point cosmology is to invent tenuous physical theories which have no experimental support and which violate the known laws of physics, such as with Prof. Stephen Hawking's paper on the black hole information issue which is dependant on the conjectured string theory-based anti-de Sitter space/conformal field theory correspondence (AdS/CFT correspondence). See S. W. Hawking, "Information loss in black holes," Physical Review D, Vol. 72, No. 8, 084013 (October 2005); also at arXiv:hep-th/0507171, July 18, 2005. http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0507171
That is, Hawking's paper is based upon proposed, unconfirmed physics. It's an impressive testament to the Omega Point Theory's correctness, as Hawking implicitly confirms that the known laws of physics require the universe to collapse in finite time. Hawking realizes that the black hole information issue must be resolved without violating unitarity, yet he's forced to abandon the known laws of physics in order to avoid unitarity violation without the universe collapsing.
Some have suggested that the universe's current acceleration of its expansion obviates the universe collapsing (and therefore obviates the Omega Point). But as Profs. Lawrence M. Krauss and Michael S. Turner point out in "Geometry and Destiny" (General Relativity and Gravitation, Vol. 31, No. 10 [October 1999], pp. 1453-1459; also at arXiv:astro-ph/9904020, April 1, 1999 http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9904020 ), there is no set of cosmological observations which can tell us whether the universe will expand forever or eventually collapse.
There's a very good reason for that, because that is dependant on the actions of intelligent life. The known laws of physics provide the mechanism for the universe's collapse. As required by the Standard Model, the net baryon number was created in the early universe by baryogenesis via electroweak quantum tunneling. This necessarily forces the Higgs field to be in a vacuum state that is not its absolute vacuum, which is the cause of the positive cosmological constant. But if the baryons in the universe were to be annihilated by the inverse of baryogenesis, again via electroweak quantum tunneling (which is allowed in the Standard Model, as B - L is conserved), then this would force the Higgs field toward its absolute vacuum, cancelling the positive cosmological constant and thereby forcing the universe to collapse. Moreover, this process would provide the ideal form of energy resource and rocket propulsion during the colonization phase of the universe.
Prof. Tipler's above Reports on Progress in Physics paper also demonstrates that the correct quantum gravity theory has existed since 1962, first discovered by Richard Feynman in that year, and independently discovered by Steven Weinberg and Bryce DeWitt, among others. But because these physicists were looking for equations with a finite number of terms (i.e., derivatives no higher than second order), they abandoned this qualitatively unique quantum gravity theory since in order for it to be consistent it requires an arbitrarily higher number of terms. Further, they didn't realize that this proper theory of quantum gravity is consistent only with a certain set of boundary conditions imposed (which includes the initial Big Bang, and the final Omega Point, cosmological singularities). The equations for this theory of quantum gravity are term-by-term finite, but the same mechanism that forces each term in the series to be finite also forces the entire series to be infinite (i.e., infinities that would otherwise occur in spacetime, consequently destabilizing it, are transferred to the cosmological singularities, thereby preventing the universe from immediately collapsing into nonexistence). As Tipler notes in his 2007 book The Physics of Christianity (pp. 49 and 279), "It is a fundamental mathematical fact that this [infinite series] is the best that we can do. ... This is somewhat analogous to Liouville's theorem in complex analysis, which says that all analytic functions other than constants have singularities either a finite distance from the origin of coordinates or at infinity."
When combined with the Standard Model, the result is a Theory of Everything (TOE) correctly describing and unifying all the forces in physics.
I have attempted to post information which is vital to the libertarian community (and hence, humanity as a whole) and to this thread, but the forum software keeps holding up my posts for approval. I thought the main idea behind forum registration is to allow forum moderators to delete spam or troll accounts. This forum has serious problems besides that, not least being the formatting which posts require, of which no informative resources are provided explaining such (at least as viewed in the Opera 9.25 web-browser).
At any rate, since this forum software behaves in the manner of some neurotic schoolmarm, I will here provide a single link to where people can be edified as to the inherent nature of existence. Which of course is monumentally vital to this topic of this thread, since if God does not exist then our discourse here is in vain.
Suffice it to say here, God has been proven to exist according to mainline physics. For more on that, see:
"God Proven to Exist According to Mainline Physics," TetrahedronOmega, May 5, 2008 http://www.armleg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=122&mforum=libertyandtruth
EDIT: misread you
The "pending approval" thing is a common gripe. I dont think the moderators have come up with a better solution yet.
I'm on a relatively slow connection.. and everything loads up pretty quickly.. maybe its user error? I mean seriously, what about clearing your cache or cookies on your browser? For you to just blatantly slander a forum (of which I found was surprisingly intuitive for ease of use...) is silly.
On another note - I've seen the post already - why do you insist on repeating your posts. People can read. God is proven to exist using the omegapoint theory.. yeah yeah. The ultimate singularity at the end of time.
I thought time and space were nothing more than events moving in relation to each other so time and space were more self-apparent vs self-evident.
But hey don't waste your breath on me, I'm just an idiot who can't grasp theoretical imaginary mathematics.
"Ordo est ordinem non servare."
Yes, but that only implies a creator, not the religious connotation of such. Religion requires faith on some degree or acceptance of devine through unexplainable observation, miracle.
Simply put, proof of god does not entail intent.
God does exist.
As far as "intent" goes, God obviously intends Himself, or Herself (for gender as we know it is a peculiarity of eukaryotic biochemistry).
Since God is everything that exists or can exist, then obviously any intention must be a subset of that.
Concerning miracles, they are events whose probability are so rare that they cannot be expected without the existence of God. That is, they violate no laws of physics, although such events may be surprising to some people.
But the important thing to keep in mind here is that God has been proven to exist according to mainline physics (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, general relativity, quantum mechanics, and the Standard Model of particle physics). The only way to avoid the conclusion that God exists is to reject empirical science.
James Redford:Actually, banned, proof of God is what it is. God does exist. As far as "intent" goes, God obviously intends Himself, or Herself (for gender as we know it is a peculiarity of eukaryotic biochemistry). Since God is everything that exists or can exist, then obviously any intention must be a subset of that. Concerning miracles, they are events whose probability are so rare that they cannot be expected without the existence of God. That is, they violate no laws of physics, although such events may be surprising to some people. But the important thing to keep in mind here is that God has been proven to exist according to mainline physics (i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, general relativity, quantum mechanics, and the Standard Model of particle physics). The only way to avoid the conclusion that God exists is to reject empirical science.
What if later science contradicts those findings due to technological & empirical advancements ? I would point to the Kardashev Scale has giving a possible scenario where a higher type civilization might surpass such current laws due to advancements. I do agree that the 'idea' of "god" seems to exist; as of late, I'm viewing god more and more as a memetic phenomena.
"Look at me, I'm quoting another user to show how wrong I think they are, out of arrogance of my own position. Wait, this is my own quote, oh shi-" ~ Nitroadict
James Redford: As far as "intent" goes, God obviously intends Himself, or Herself (for gender as we know it is a peculiarity of eukaryotic biochemistry).
I think I need to rephrase what I was saying. Proof in a creator does not lead nessasairily to christianity. It does not show the reason behind WHY God acts. Only that he has acted and presumably will act in the future (the "presumption" is based on man's limitation with reguards to four dimensional observation). God's existance can be theoretically proven, God's word, however, is another matter.
Actually, banned, it's all the same, if thought out deeply enough.
What you're describing is flawed humans' tendency to not consider things intensely enough.
Existence has an unavoidable morality built into it.
The good news is that libertarianism is true. It is true in the most fundamental sense imaginable: i.e., existence itself would not be possible without it. That is not hyperbole in the slightest, but rather is a quite veridical statement.
It seems hard for most to imagine how existence itself could be predicated upon a "mere" political theory (even a veridical political theory, namely, libertarianism). But nevertheless, reality violates almost everyone's "common sense" understanding of the world. Reality is quite unforgiving in this regard, and it shows respect to no title or institution, unless of course they already happen to be in comformance with it, which is utterly rare.
But what physics demonstrates is that there is an ultimate speed-limit, i.e., the speed of light. Hence, if colonization of the universe is to occur (and it must occur if life is to continue), then this necessarily ensures that decentralization in control of resources cannot be avoided.
That is to say, there cannot even in theory be a centralized "univeral governament." Indeed, each relativistic spacecraft (massing no more than a kilogram) will be its own automomous unit with its own society. It will not be possible, even in theory, for any member of the originating society to catch up with it. Only during the collapse phase of the universe, trillions upon trillons of years hence, will all points in the universe proceed to converge.
Thus, each autonomous society (and there will be trillions upon trillions of them) will have trillions upon trillions of years of autonomous existence in which to develop their own societies. Those societies which are the most efficient at taking over resources will be the ones which take control over the universe's resources (and veridical economics demonstrates that this will be the freest of economies[1]).
How that relates to libertarianism being inherently required by existence itself is thus: the end-state of the universe causally brings about the beginning state, i.e., the Big Bang singularity--since in physics it's just as accurate to say that causation goes from future to past events: viz, the principle of least action; and unitarity.
For more on what I spoke of in the above, see:
-----
Note:
1. One may protest that colonial occupiers have had great success in taking over a great deal of the Earth's landmass. That is true. But that ignores the physics of interstellar colonization. The colonial invaders upon the Earth were able to keep in contact with their home base (even given what we presently regard as great distances). Such cannot be possible with relativistic spacecraft--or indeed any colonizing interstellar spacecraft.
It may be protested further that the interstellar colonizers maintain their expansion at a rate in which to allow communication with each other. But then there exists no enforcement mechanism for this, for those spacecraft which choose to travel faster would be impune. No member of the originating society would be able to catch up with it.
One may object by positing that said spacecraft are intentionally built to have an upper speed limit enough to allow non-crippled spacecraft to catch up with them. But if such spacecraft are to actually colonize, then they must have on board universal constructors, i.e., they must be von Neumann machines, capable of assembling whatever is capable of being assebled (i.e., given that point in universal history).
(Humans, by the way, are universal constructors. That is to say, we are able to construct anything which is capable of being constructed. More accurately: we are able to construct machines which are able to contruct what we desire, of which machines are in turn able to construct the machines in which to construct what we desire even more, and so on, literally ad infinitum. In Austrian economics [i.e., veridical economics], this is called lengthening the structure of production.)
Hence, any such spacecraft must already have the means in which to build a better spacecraft (up to the point of what is physically possible), otherwise they could not be actual colonizers, and hence would be useless for interstellar colonization.
banned: I'm looking for passages that expressly defend voluntarism in the bible. I'm not that well versed in it yet so I dont know where to look. If anyone knows of a passage forbidding christians from ruling others coercively or anything of that nature could you post it? I seem to recall a passage of that nature But I haven't found it.
The Bible on capitalism:
Proverbs 6:6-11 - [Verse 6 in Original Hebrew] 6 Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: 7 Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, 8 Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest.Proverbs 14:24 - [In Context|Original Hebrew]The crown of the wise is their riches: but the foolishness of fools is folly. Proverbs 21:20 - [In Context|Original Hebrew]There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up.
Proverbs 21:20 - [In Context|Original Hebrew]There is treasure to be desired and oil in the dwelling of the wise; but a foolish man spendeth it up.
The Bible on politics:
Proverbs 14:23 - [In Context|Original Hebrew]In all labour there is profit: but the talk of the lips tendeth only to penury. Proverbs 28:19 - [In Context|Original Hebrew]He that tilleth his land shall have plenty of bread: but he that followeth after vain persons shall have poverty enough.
Proverbs 28:19 - [In Context|Original Hebrew]He that tilleth his land shall have plenty of bread: but he that followeth after vain persons shall have poverty enough.
The Bible on self-interest:
Proverbs 16:26 - [In Context|Original Hebrew]He F76 that laboureth laboureth for himself; for his mouth craveth it of him.
The Bible on war:
Psalm 46 8Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth. 9He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire. 10Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. 11The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge.
Psalm 46
8Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth.
9He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.
10Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
11The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge.
The Bible on non-interventionism:
Proverbs 26:17 - [In Context|Original Hebrew] He that passeth by, and meddleth F140 with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.
The Bible on confiscation of private property:
Ahab and Naboth's Vineyard 1And it came to pass after these things, that Naboth the Jez'reelite had a vineyard, which was in Jezreel, hard by the palace of Ahab king of Samaria. 2And Ahab spake unto Naboth, saying, Give me thy vineyard, that I may have it for a garden of herbs, because it is near unto my house: and I will give thee for it a better vineyard than it; or, if it seem good to thee, I will give thee the worth of it in money. 3And Naboth said to Ahab, The LORD forbid it me, that I should give the inheritance of my fathers unto thee. 4And Ahab came into his house heavy and displeased because of the word which Naboth the Jez'reelite had spoken to him: for he had said, I will not give thee the inheritance of my fathers. And he laid him down upon his bed, and turned away his face, and would eat no bread. 5But Jez'ebel his wife came to him, and said unto him, Why is thy spirit so sad, that thou eatest no bread? 6And he said unto her, Because I spake unto Naboth the Jez'reelite, and said unto him, Give me thy vineyard for money; or else, if it please thee, I will give thee another vineyard for it: and he answered, I will not give thee my vineyard. 7And Jez'ebel his wife said unto him, Dost thou now govern the kingdom of Israel? arise, and eat bread, and let thine heart be merry: I will give thee the vineyard of Naboth the Jez'reelite. 8So she wrote letters in Ahab's name, and sealed them with his seal, and sent the letters unto the elders and to the nobles that were in his city, dwelling with Naboth. 9And she wrote in the letters, saying, Proclaim a fast, and set Naboth on high among the people: 10and set two men, sons of Be'li-al, before him, to bear witness against him, saying, Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die. 11And the men of his city, even the elders and the nobles who were the inhabitants in his city, did as Jez'ebel had sent unto them, and as it was written in the letters which she had sent unto them. 12They proclaimed a fast, and set Naboth on high among the people. 13And there came in two men, children of Be'li-al, and sat before him: and the men of Be'li-al witnessed against him, even against Naboth, in the presence of the people, saying, Naboth did blaspheme God and the king. Then they carried him forth out of the city, and stoned him with stones, that he died. 14Then they sent to Jez'ebel, saying, Naboth is stoned, and is dead. 15And it came to pass, when Jez'ebel heard that Naboth was stoned, and was dead, that Jez'ebel said to Ahab, Arise, take possession of the vineyard of Naboth the Jez'reelite, which he refused to give thee for money: for Naboth is not alive, but dead. 16And it came to pass, when Ahab heard that Naboth was dead, that Ahab rose up to go down to the vineyard of Naboth the Jez'reelite, to take possession of it. 17And the word of the LORD came to Eli'jah the Tishbite, saying, 18Arise, go down to meet Ahab king of Israel, which is in Samaria: behold, he is in the vineyard of Naboth, whither he is gone down to possess it. 19And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou killed, and also taken possession? And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, In the place where dogs licked the blood of Naboth shall dogs lick thy blood, even thine.
Ahab and Naboth's Vineyard
1And it came to pass after these things, that Naboth the Jez'reelite had a vineyard, which was in Jezreel, hard by the palace of Ahab king of Samaria. 2And Ahab spake unto Naboth, saying, Give me thy vineyard, that I may have it for a garden of herbs, because it is near unto my house: and I will give thee for it a better vineyard than it; or, if it seem good to thee, I will give thee the worth of it in money. 3And Naboth said to Ahab, The LORD forbid it me, that I should give the inheritance of my fathers unto thee. 4And Ahab came into his house heavy and displeased because of the word which Naboth the Jez'reelite had spoken to him: for he had said, I will not give thee the inheritance of my fathers. And he laid him down upon his bed, and turned away his face, and would eat no bread.
5But Jez'ebel his wife came to him, and said unto him, Why is thy spirit so sad, that thou eatest no bread? 6And he said unto her, Because I spake unto Naboth the Jez'reelite, and said unto him, Give me thy vineyard for money; or else, if it please thee, I will give thee another vineyard for it: and he answered, I will not give thee my vineyard. 7And Jez'ebel his wife said unto him, Dost thou now govern the kingdom of Israel? arise, and eat bread, and let thine heart be merry: I will give thee the vineyard of Naboth the Jez'reelite.
8So she wrote letters in Ahab's name, and sealed them with his seal, and sent the letters unto the elders and to the nobles that were in his city, dwelling with Naboth. 9And she wrote in the letters, saying, Proclaim a fast, and set Naboth on high among the people: 10and set two men, sons of Be'li-al, before him, to bear witness against him, saying, Thou didst blaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die. 11And the men of his city, even the elders and the nobles who were the inhabitants in his city, did as Jez'ebel had sent unto them, and as it was written in the letters which she had sent unto them. 12They proclaimed a fast, and set Naboth on high among the people. 13And there came in two men, children of Be'li-al, and sat before him: and the men of Be'li-al witnessed against him, even against Naboth, in the presence of the people, saying, Naboth did blaspheme God and the king. Then they carried him forth out of the city, and stoned him with stones, that he died. 14Then they sent to Jez'ebel, saying, Naboth is stoned, and is dead.
15And it came to pass, when Jez'ebel heard that Naboth was stoned, and was dead, that Jez'ebel said to Ahab, Arise, take possession of the vineyard of Naboth the Jez'reelite, which he refused to give thee for money: for Naboth is not alive, but dead. 16And it came to pass, when Ahab heard that Naboth was dead, that Ahab rose up to go down to the vineyard of Naboth the Jez'reelite, to take possession of it.
17And the word of the LORD came to Eli'jah the Tishbite, saying, 18Arise, go down to meet Ahab king of Israel, which is in Samaria: behold, he is in the vineyard of Naboth, whither he is gone down to possess it. 19And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou killed, and also taken possession? And thou shalt speak unto him, saying, Thus saith the LORD, In the place where dogs licked the blood of Naboth shall dogs lick thy blood, even thine.
The Bible on slavery:
Exodus chapter 3--"I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; and I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey. Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt."
Leviticus 19 34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. 35 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure. 36 Just balances, just weights, F37 a just ephah, and a just hin, shall ye have: I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt. 37 Therefore shall ye observe all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19
34 But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. 35 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure. 36 Just balances, just weights, F37 a just ephah, and a just hin, shall ye have: I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt. 37 Therefore shall ye observe all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: I am the LORD.
Exodus 26:16--And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.
The Bible on statism:
"...the trees said to the bramble, Come reign over us" (see Judges chapter 9)
So uhm, if physics has proved the existence of god, I imagine they have overcome the various logical contradictions?
You know, like if god created the universe, what created god, etc. Do they have an answer to that with any substance (non-theological susbtance)?
Hi, Fred Furash. Yes, to answer your question: God is all that exists and has ever existed.
If you don't think that's an adequate answer to your question, then you haven't thought about the matter hard enough.
That is to say, there is nothing outside of God. God is the totality of existence, forever and all times. Anything that exists is God.
But I see what you're getting at in your question. You're asking what created God.
The answer to that question is that you created God.
And God created you.
And so on and so on.
That all is to say: everything that exists is God. It always has been and always will be.
That may seem adverse to obtaining our desired answer. And quite possibly it is.
So we are left with asking ourselves what do we really mean when we ask these questions?
In effect, we're trying to find out why anything exists as opposed to nothing existing.
The reason that something exists as opposed to nothing existing is because once something exists it necessarily requires structure. Yet nothingness contains within itself all possibility.
I'm not sure if that answer will satisfy everyone. But nevertheless it is true.
Seems like an illogical cop-out.
Hi, Brainpolice.
The question under discussion is why anything exists as opposed to nothing existing.
My answer is that existence has always existed, and hence always will exist.
If that's a cop-out, then please provide your answer to existence's existence.
James Redford: Hi, Brainpolice. The question under discussion is why anything exists as opposed to nothing existing. My answer is that existence has always existed, and hence always will exist. If that's a cop-out, then please provide your answer to existence's existence.
Amos 8
4 ¶ Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail, 5 Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit? 6 That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat? 7 The LORD hath sworn by the excellency of Jacob, Surely I will never forget any of their works.
Proverbs 1
10 ¶ My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not. 11 If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause: 12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit: 13 We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil: 14 Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse: 15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path: 16 For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood. 17 Surely in vain the net is spread in the sight of any bird. 18 And they lay wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their own lives. 19 So are the ways of every one that is greedy of gain; which taketh away the life of the owners thereof.
Job 24
2 Some remove the landmarks; they violently take away flocks, and feed thereof. 3 They drive away the ass of the fatherless, they take the widow's ox for a pledge. 4 They turn the needy out of the way: the poor of the earth hide themselves together.
Deuteronomy 19, 27
14 ¶ Thou shalt not remove thy neighbour's landmark, which they of old time have set in thine inheritance, which thou shalt inherit in the land that the LORD thy God giveth thee to possess it.
17 Cursed be he that removeth his neighbour's landmark. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Proverbs 22, 23
28 ¶ Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.
10 ¶ Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless: 11 For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.
Jeremiah 32
7 Behold, Hanameel the son of Shallum thine uncle shall come unto thee, saying, Buy thee my field that is in Anathoth: for the right of redemption is thine to buy it. 8 So Hanameel mine uncle's son came to me in the court of the prison according to the word of the LORD, and said unto me, Buy my field, I pray thee, that is in Anathoth, which is in the country of Benjamin: for the right of inheritance is thine, and the redemption is thine; buy it for thyself. Then I knew that this was the word of the LORD. 9 And I bought the field of Hanameel my uncle's son, that was in Anathoth, and weighed him the money, even seventeen shekels of silver. 10 And I subscribed the evidence, and sealed it, and took witnesses, and weighed him the money in the balances. 11 So I took the evidence of the purchase, both that which was sealed according to the law and custom, and that which was open: 12 And I gave the evidence of the purchase unto Baruch the son of Neriah, the son of Maaseiah, in the sight of Hanameel mine uncle's son, and in the presence of the witnesses that subscribed the book of the purchase, before all the Jews that sat in the court of the prison. 13 And I charged Baruch before them, saying, 14 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Take these evidences, this evidence of the purchase, both which is sealed, and this evidence which is open; and put them in an earthen vessel, that they may continue many days. 15 For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Houses and fields and vineyards shall be possessed again in this land. 16 ¶ Now when I had delivered the evidence of the purchase unto Baruch the son of Neriah, I prayed unto the LORD, saying, 17 Ah Lord GOD! behold, thou hast made the heaven and the earth by thy great power and stretched out arm, and there is nothing too hard for thee: 18 Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name, 19 Great in counsel, and mighty in work: for thine eyes are open upon all the ways of the sons of men: to give every one according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings:
25 And thou hast said unto me, O Lord GOD, Buy thee the field for money, and take witnesses; for the city is given into the hand of the Chaldeans. 26 ¶ Then came the word of the LORD unto Jeremiah, saying, 27 Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?
43 And fields shall be bought in this land, whereof ye say, It is desolate without man or beast; it is given into the hand of the Chaldeans. 44 Men shall buy fields for money, and subscribe evidences, and seal them, and take witnesses in the land of Benjamin, and in the places about Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, and in the cities of the mountains, and in the cities of the valley, and in the cities of the south: for I will cause their captivity to return, saith the LORD.
Ecclesiastes 6
1 ¶ There is an evil which I have seen under the sun, and it is common among men: 2 A man to whom God hath given riches, wealth, and honour, so that he wanteth nothing for his soul of all that he desireth, yet God giveth him not power to eat thereof, but a stranger eateth it: this is vanity, and it is an evil disease.
And more on the way.
Genesis 23
1 ¶ And Sarah was an hundred and seven and twenty years old: these were the years of the life of Sarah. 2 And Sarah died in Kirjatharba; the same is Hebron in the land of Canaan: and Abraham came to mourn for Sarah, and to weep for her. 3 ¶ And Abraham stood up from before his dead, and spake unto the sons of Heth, saying, 4 I am a stranger and a sojourner with you: give me a possession of a buryingplace with you, that I may bury my dead out of my sight. 5 And the children of Heth answered Abraham, saying unto him, 6 Hear us, my lord: thou art a mighty prince among us: in the choice of our sepulchres bury thy dead; none of us shall withhold from thee his sepulchre, but that thou mayest bury thy dead. 7 And Abraham stood up, and bowed himself to the people of the land, even to the children of Heth. 8 And he communed with them, saying, If it be your mind that I should bury my dead out of my sight; hear me, and intreat for me to Ephron the son of Zohar, 9 That he may give me the cave of Machpelah, which he hath, which is in the end of his field; for as much money as it is worth he shall give it me for a possession of a buryingplace amongst you. 10 And Ephron dwelt among the children of Heth: and Ephron the Hittite answered Abraham in the audience of the children of Heth, even of all that went in at the gate of his city, saying, 11 Nay, my lord, hear me: the field give I thee, and the cave that is therein, I give it thee; in the presence of the sons of my people give I it thee: bury thy dead. 12 And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land. 13 And he spake unto Ephron in the audience of the people of the land, saying, But if thou wilt give it, I pray thee, hear me: I will give thee money for the field; take it of me, and I will bury my dead there. 14 And Ephron answered Abraham, saying unto him, 15 My lord, hearken unto me: the land is worth four hundred shekels of silver; what is that betwixt me and thee? bury therefore thy dead. 16 ¶ And Abraham hearkened unto Ephron; and Abraham weighed to Ephron the silver, which he had named in the audience of the sons of Heth, four hundred shekels of silver, current money with the merchant. 17 And the field of Ephron, which was in Machpelah, which was before Mamre, the field, and the cave which was therein, and all the trees that were in the field, that were in all the borders round about, were made sure
http://www.harmlessasdoves.com/israelking.html
Nu 18:16 And those that are to be redeemed from a month old shalt thou redeem, according to thine estimation, for the money of five shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, which is twenty gerahs.
Le 19
35 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment, in meteyard, in weight, or in measure. 36 Just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just hin, shall ye have: I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt.
Eze 45
10 Ye shall have just balances, and a just ephah, and a just bath. 11 The ephah and the bath shall be of one measure, that the bath may contain the tenth part of an homer, and the ephah the tenth part of an homer: the measure thereof shall be after the homer.
Haggai 1
5 Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways. 6 Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes. 12 And the shekel shall be twenty gerahs: twenty shekels, five and twenty shekels, fifteen shekels, shall be your maneh.
Micah 6
9 ¶ The LORD'S voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it. 10 Are there yet the treasures of wickedness in the house of the wicked, and the scant measure that is abominable? 11 Shall I count them pure with the wicked balances, and with the bag of deceitful weights?
More on the way but---------- when I have time to.