This thread is for anything Libya. I'll start:
On Al-Jazeera a video clip was played of a fighter jet crashing to the ground. Anyone what that was all about? Was that a UN fighter jet?
To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process. Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!" Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."
The MSM is claiming that was a Libyan jet shot down by the rebels. I find it hard to believe the rebels have that kind of capablities though.
A friend of mine said Lybia is claiming they shot down a French jet. Possibility?
Question: Have we sent foreign aid to Libya over the past decades as we have to Egypt? If not, in what ways have we supported al-Qaḏḏāfī's dictatorship as I've seen claimed?
What's the over/under on when ground troops will enter Libya? I'll go with 9 days from today.
Today at work a customer came in and brought up how Obama was doing a great job picking his March madness brackets instead of doing something about the more important things like the issues in the middle east and Japan. I responded that I wished he and all of the government officials would spend more time on those brackets then on Libya and Japan for the sake of the innocent people of Libya and Japan. Now that I think about it I wish march maddness would last months just to keep them occupied and out of everyone elses' business, including mine. As far as ground troops being deployed, I say less then a week from now. Five or six days maybe.
"It is easy to be conspicuously 'compassionate' if others are being forced to pay the cost." - Murray N. Rothbard.
Blueline976: A friend of mine said Lybia is claiming they shot down a French jet. Possibility?
With what? AKs?
Merlin:With what? AKs?
Who knows. The French are reporting that they haven't lost any jets, so yeah. Nevermind lol.
Some guy on Al-Jazeera [correction: Russia Today] said that many of the rebels are CIA agents and agents for other subversive agencies of the West.
Daniel Muffinburg,
I'm not saying that that isn't true, but "Russia Today" has a tendency to blame just about every negative political occurrence in the world on the "evil Western imperialists".
I know.
What a stereotype!
Freedom has always been the only route to progress.
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/von%20havenstein/Benghazi.jpg
The jet shot down was a Mig-23, which is used by Libya.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig_23
The pic is epic. CoD MW3 stuff.
Merlin: The pic is epic. CoD MW3 stuff.
See, without interventionist foriegn policy where could we set videogames???
Just read where the U.S. has launched 112 tomahawk cruise missles targeted at anti-air defense. Obama says there will be no ground troops though...
Evilsceptic: See, without interventionist foriegn policy where could we set videogames???
Indeed
Damn. Taking that into consideration, our foreign policy is worth it. I can't live without my Call of Duty.
This is probably the best justification I've herd for American foreign policy.
fbc91: http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/von%20havenstein/Benghazi.jpg The jet shot down was a Mig-23, which is used by Libya. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mig_23
Imagine a time when kids can say to their parents, "But it's not real! It's just a game!"
This interesting:
Israel reportedly sent 50,000 African mercenaries to help Gaddafi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke1vDSVKXaU
fbc91:Damn. Taking that into consideration, our foreign policy is worth it. I can't live without my Call of Duty.
Well everyone knows that without government we'd have corporations enslaving the population and fighting wars against each other. So maybe Call of Duty: Private Enterprise would be a pretty badass game. Apple could team up with General Motors and maybe make an iTank?
Why? Actually, the initial reports were that it was a Gaddafi plane shot down by the rebels; then a rebel plane shot down by Gaddafi forces; after about 15 minutes it came out that it was a rebel plane shot down by the rebels. But a later report said it was "confirmed" that it was in fact a Gaddafi plane after all. I haven't heard anything more, but the media were still reporting an own-goal by the rebels much later. MSM are usually the last to report real info, though.
This is not the same plane. Gaddafi claims to have shot down a French jet. French TV reported it, I'm told. But it's not true.
I really don't think this operation is much more than rerun on a larger scale of Operation Eldorado Canyon. Differently from Saddam Hussein or the Taliban Gaddafi hasn't outlived his intended purpose, so a full blown invasion is out of the picture. Consider this operation to serve two purposes. The first is a warning shot to Gaddafi: we've given you everything you wanted, now start behaving or you'll join Saddam, Diem and other US-backed dictators who outlived their usefulness. The second is a sophisticated smoke and mirrors show for the benefit of the Arab world. The US is playing damage control with the oppressed masses of the Gulf, Egypt and the Maghreb. After the embarassing Mubarak show, after selling enormous quantities of weapons to Saudi Arabia (some of which are now being used against the people of Bahrain), after backing every single scoundrel they could find, they need a PR operation. Think of it as a Gulf War on a small scale: the Forces of Freedom coming to the help of the oppressed.
What the final outcome will be, nobody can tell. I personally think not even The Witch has thought about what to do next, just like when she charged like a raging bull into Somalia without a clear plan of action. A possible scenario could be an extended bombing campaign to break Gaddafi's claws and fangs (read: destroy his air force, damage has much heavy equipment as possible and demoralize his foreign mercenaries) followed by the arrival of UN troops, perhaps supplied by the African Union and the Arab League, to establish a "safety zone" around rebel-controlled areas. Another scenario is a ceasefire negotiated by the Arab League, which needs a PR operation itself big time, with Gaddafi agreeing at least to some of the rebels' demands, and the arrival of Arab League troops into the country.
Personally I think Gaddafi will go into his usual insane ramblings, threaten everybody will anhilation, but in the end he'll give in. His priority number one is to stay in power and if he has to come to more reasonable terms with both the rebels and Europe, he'll do so. Differently from the Afghan "insurgents", who have no fixed bases, no airfields, no heavy weaponry and can easily melt away, he's extremely vulnerable to the devastating Allied air supremacy. In the twenty five years since Eldorado Canyon the US has learned a thing or two about how to use this terrifying tool of destruction to the worst.
I'm not too sure. The only news source which has reported anything like this has been Press TV which is Iranian state-TV: a mouthpiece of the totalitarian regime in Tehran which frequently puts out stories advocating Holocaust denial and the like. I wouldn't trust them if I were you. I mean I thought British state-TV was bad!
Rcder: Daniel Muffinburg, I'm not saying that that isn't true, but "Russia Today" has a tendency to blame just about every negative political occurrence in the world on the "evil Western imperialists".
Rusia Today hosted Lew Rockwell today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD8AHvWqqE0
Commie claims Libya invasion is about gold. You MUST watch this for a few laughs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeNUYEEjnUw
Nooooooooo! Not that guy again.
1. Some guy on RT, is not the same as RT. 2. Why the citation marks, are you quoting someone?
lol western imperialism? There's not even one example of such a thing.
not sure if serious
... just as the State has no money of its own, so it has no power of its own - Albert Jay Nock
A shoulder fired SAM only costs about $10,000, which is a tad cheaper than a MiG-25.
This has been identical to the Bush years. Whatever happens, seriously, whatever happens is spun to be a 'victory'. It's pure IngSoc. Victory on the Malabar front! Actually, it's crazier than that.
There is no debate allowed because the results are pretedermined beforehand and it will always be concluded as a 'victory'.
Doublespeak abounds; a 39 seat plurality of a pro-Western party in a parliament of 200, sponsored by a ruling body that was not elected by the Libyan people is a 'landslide' and a 'democratic revolution'.
Not to mention how uncomfortably this parallels the situation in Iraq in 2005.
Also, this forum is broken and I can't edit my above post, so I'll post this here:
Since WWII the entire dialogue over military intervention has been extirpated by the State. A false 'democratic' election is seen as a sign of the success of military intervention. A deposing of an anti-US autocrat sending a country into civil war and chaos is seen as a sign of the success of military intervention, since only futher military intervention will be able to prevent further violence.
You cannot win this debate because it has been preordained to fit the military-industrial complex's view of world affairs.