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Who would you pick..

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AdrianHealey Posted: Thu, Apr 7 2011 11:39 AM

...to defend libertarianism in a (hypothetical) big, gigantic, 'all topics are open' debate between the debates and 'the rest of the world'? 

Some limitations.

- They still have to be alive and able to speak.

- Maximum 5 debaters. 

- You can ignore 'people skills'; they all magically gain great debate skills. 

- The debate can take all kinds of turns: history, philosophy, economics, political science, etc. 

I haven't given it much thought; but I would choose these five.

- David Gordon; great on philosophy and logic. Very well read. Good on history too.

- Peter Boettke; 'knows' the Mainstream and Austrian Economics. Knows a lot about real existing socialism.

- Robert Murphy; excellent on the current crisis. Knows a lot about monetary and other kinds of economics.

- Robert Higgs; great on history and the political relevance of (modern) history. 

- David Beito; great on history. Knows a lot about the welfare state and it's effects on poverty. 

Who would you pick? And why? 

 

Also interesting: who would you pick from the Mises forum? 

The state is not the enemy. The idea of the state is. 

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Molyneux seems to jump out at me.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan
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Nielsio replied on Thu, Apr 7 2011 11:53 AM

Ignoring people skills makes this less interesting. Without that clause your question at least has some potential use.

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Feel free to make a list deleting that clause. I'm not stopping you. :)

The state is not the enemy. The idea of the state is. 

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Anthony de Jasay.

"Whoever will be free must make himself free. Freedom is no fairy gift to fall into a man's lap. What is freedom? To have the will to be responsible for one's self." ~ Max Stirner
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William, Ricky James Moore, Student, and Esuric from this forum...

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student is a libertarian?

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
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I think it would be best to pick and expose 5 authoritarians to show that their views are wrong.

Lincoln

FDR

The guy from the Fed who called Dr. Paul a pinhead (idiot says money is neutral yet he demands inflation)

Raygun

Churchill

 

Edit: Didn't see that they have be alive.

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No, Danny, but just one who is committed enough to the truth to give libertarians a fair representation. Right?

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Prateek Sanjay:

William, Ricky James Moore, Student, and Esuric from this forum...

My ears are burning, but I have to agree with Natalie that de Jasay wrecks all statism with his mighty mace of logic.

I will break in the doors of hell and smash the bolts; there will be confusion of people, those above with those from the lower depths. I shall bring up the dead to eat food like the living; and the hosts of dead will outnumber the living.
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Bizarre, Prateek.

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
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Seriously Prateek, I wonder who you read around here.

Some folks from here who would do a good job are Stephen, Solid Choke, Jon Irenicus, Angurse, Jack Cuyler, Physiocrat, AJ, the list is long.

I'd pick voluntarists and anarchists.

Doug Casey, Stefan Molyneux, Marc Stevens and maybe John Harris.  None of them are public intellectuals, none of them are Hayekians, all of them live and die in the private sector.

"When you're young you worry about people stealing your ideas, when you're old you worry that they won't." - David Friedman
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Nielsio replied on Thu, Apr 7 2011 1:27 PM

It's hard for me to think of anyone better than Hulsmann, if we include people skills. He can rise above the situation and not allow himself to get upset, while appealing to the audience (sense of humor) and have great enthusiasm, AND understand the material extremely well.

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Kakugo replied on Thu, Apr 7 2011 1:43 PM

Agreed on Hulsmann. I would also add Jesus Huerta de Soto, Jeffrey Tucker and Walter Block.

Together we go unsung... together we go down with our people
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Student replied on Thu, Apr 7 2011 2:37 PM

I found Prateek's post during one of the many time I google myself per day and was glad to see someone appreciating my work.

You're welcome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEKEjpTzB0Q

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Merlin replied on Thu, Apr 7 2011 2:38 PM

Clearly Hoppe.

The Regression theorem is a memetic equivalent of the Theory of Evolution. To say that the former precludes the free emergence of fiat currencies makes no more sense that to hold that the latter precludes the natural emergence of multicellular organisms.
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Hoppe is great, but I don't think many people understand the implications of his ideas. 

"When you're young you worry about people stealing your ideas, when you're old you worry that they won't." - David Friedman
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And they wouldn't want to, imo (most of them), if they did understand the implications.

In States a fresh law is looked upon as a remedy for evil. Instead of themselves altering what is bad, people begin by demanding a law to alter it. ... In short, a law everywhere and for everything!

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As a non libertarian, the five libertarians I find most convincing are Cowen, Tabarrok, Friedman Sr. (dead) and I can't think of any others off the top of my head so I guess Cowen twice more. 

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EconomistInTraining:
As a non libertarian, the five libertarians I find most convincing are Cowen, Tabarrok, Friedman Sr. (dead) and I can't think of any others off the top of my head so I guess Cowen twice more.

Those choices might explain why you are a non-libertarian.

"When you're young you worry about people stealing your ideas, when you're old you worry that they won't." - David Friedman
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Yeah, because none of those guys are libertarians.

I will break in the doors of hell and smash the bolts; there will be confusion of people, those above with those from the lower depths. I shall bring up the dead to eat food like the living; and the hosts of dead will outnumber the living.
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Chomsky, Ron Paul, George Carlin, Laotzu, and Socrates.  And Bill Maher to moderate cheeky

In States a fresh law is looked upon as a remedy for evil. Instead of themselves altering what is bad, people begin by demanding a law to alter it. ... In short, a law everywhere and for everything!

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Eric replied on Thu, Apr 7 2011 7:40 PM

You are being sarcastic, right?

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@Eric

I dont think it is sarcastic... some of those people listed might have some policies that are libertarian policies, For example : Friedman on minimum wage, rent control, and drug legalization but overall, those people listed fail to meet NAP standards

My Blog: http://www.anarchico.net/

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Sieben replied on Thu, Apr 7 2011 8:20 PM

1) Myself

2) Grayson Lilburne

3) J Kenyon, a friend from Debate.org

4) David D Friedman

5) Roderick Long



I totally disregard the OP's stipulation that we should ignore debating skill, unless he meant like ability to speak and persuade audiences. I do not think we could win a popular opinion. I think we could win a technical debate no questions.

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Bardock replied on Thu, Apr 7 2011 9:44 PM

David D. Friedman

Robert Higgs

Walter Block

Robert Murphy 

Tom Woods 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lteLWtfdbeM&feature=related
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Neodoxy replied on Thu, Apr 7 2011 10:02 PM

1. Sieben

2. Liberty Student (If we could get him to do it if not well sub him in with Friedman)

3. Stefan Molyneux

4. Thomas Woods

5. Ron  Paul

"Chomsky, Ron Paul, George Carlin, Laotzu, and Socrates.  And Bill Maher to moderate "

Hell to the yea.

At last those coming came and they never looked back With blinding stars in their eyes but all they saw was black...
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Student replied on Thu, Apr 7 2011 10:29 PM

jeff miron
p.j. o'rourke
bryan caplan
tyler cowen
john lydon
 

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Sieben replied on Thu, Apr 7 2011 10:32 PM

I FORGOT ABOUT CAPLAN!

I would replace Long with Caplan.

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Sieben's debates at DDO were epic. Liking these lists. Too bad some of the debaters are dead.

Freedom has always been the only route to progress.

Post Neo-Left Libertarian Manifesto (PNL lib)
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Othyem replied on Thu, Apr 7 2011 11:05 PM

Hands down, I would pick Roderick Long. Caplan is a good choice too, but in my opinion Long is always very persuasive in meeting criticism.

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Othyem:

Hands down, I would pick Roderick Long. Caplan is a good choice too, but in my opinion Long is always very persuasive in meeting criticism.

I am not really sure if Long can handle questions on Economics as well as  others listed on here

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Neodoxy:
Liberty Student (If we could get him to do it if not well sub him in with Friedman)

It's nice you think so much of me, but I don't think I am in the class of many of these guys, certainly not the class of the guys I mentioned.

I'm just someone who prefers a simple logic, free is free, not less than free.  It's a short message, and a simple idea.  One that eludes too many for me to think I can change the world with only words.

"When you're young you worry about people stealing your ideas, when you're old you worry that they won't." - David Friedman
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Othyem replied on Fri, Apr 8 2011 12:21 AM

Isn't the question about who would be the best at defending libertarianism? Surely knowledge of economics figures very importantly in that, but it doesn't take a professional economist to understand how voluntary exchange works. In any case, I don't think Long came to the subject yesterday. To my knowledge he has a very good understanding of the subject.

 The number one reason why I would choose Long is because in everything I've read by him he never comes off as a dogmatic ideologue. He doesn't appear to be what student would call a "true believer". When you're discussing or debating a topic with someone (especially a sensitive one like politics) the last thing he or she wants to hear is "ALL WRONG YOU MURDERING STATIST!" This language has its time and place (usually among the choir) but it most likely won't help gain any new followers. Long, in my humble opinion, seems to avoid this language while being receptive and sensitive to the opinions of those he disagrees with, which never hurts when you're is trying to spread the message of liberty.

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@Othyem

Yes the question considers who would be best to defend libertarianism but you have to include all topics, it is an open topic debate... R. Long is great at philosophy but not so much on the economics... There are better people out there that are better well rounded in most of the topics of Libertarianism.

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Othyem:
When you're discussing or debating a topic with someone (especially a sensitive one like politics) the last thing he or she wants to hear is "ALL WRONG YOU MURDERING STATIST!"

If you're going to sway people by appealing to their flawed and irrational core belief systems, you will never convert (so to speak) enough people to make it worth your time.

You can't defend libertarianism.  It's a set of values.  Values are subjective.  See things as they are, not as you want to believe they are.  People steal and call it taxes.  Statists claim utilitarianism and undermine the only real measure mass utility, the market.

Also, aren't you missing an "E" in your name Fedaykin?

"When you're young you worry about people stealing your ideas, when you're old you worry that they won't." - David Friedman
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- David Friedman 

- Joe Salerno

- Stephan Molyneux 

-  Dominick Armentano

- Tom Woods

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Sieben:

I FORGOT ABOUT CAPLAN!

I would replace Long with Caplan.

Wait, are we talking about the guy who wrote Why I Am Not an Austrian Economist?

Check out my video, Ron Paul vs Lincoln! And share my PowerPoint with your favorite neo-con
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Here wo go:

Guido Hulsmann - excellent economist and Hoppean/ Rothbardian ethics.

Roderick Long - his virtue ethics approach, good manners and street cred with the left would be useful though his related economics is a vice.

Beyond those two I'm heading to us lot for a consequentialist , a historian and someone a little different.

AJ- incredible civil and erudite consequentialist.

William - excellent historical knoweldge (and Stinerite)

Me - eclectic thinker and Hawiian shirt wearing Christian Anarchist and so can sell libertarianism to thiestic audience.

LS,

Your idea of having some people who live and die in the private sector is an excellent idea though I know little about them so cannot comment on them. Btw the money is in the post;)

 

The atoms tell the atoms so, for I never was or will but atoms forevermore be.

Yours sincerely,

Physiocrat

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Othyem replied on Fri, Apr 8 2011 8:20 AM

Yes, the name. Good catch. I couldn't remember the spelling.

 

All I'm saying is being polite helps.

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