Grammar Help

I need to ask a grammar question relating to the word 'that'.

I find that in many texts conjuction 'that' is not present where I would expect it to be, so I am wondering if I am not overusing it.


For example, would you say:

'The guide told us hotel was ahead.' or 'The guide told us that hotel was ahead.'

'Is there an expectaction among the fans the team will win?' or 'Is there an expectaction among the fans that the team will win?'
 

What about, is it ever correct to have two 'that' next to each other? Like: 'He told us that that was wrong.'

I think that that that was ok. And this triple that was ok, too :)

Seriously, in informal context people tend to skip "is" as well, does it make users of full gramatical structures look bad?

For example, would you say:

'The guide told us hotel was ahead.' or 'The guide told us that hotel was ahead.'

The second, though I suspect it's not what you intended.  "The guide told us the hotel was ahead" is OK, but you can use "that hotel" in a similar way, so your second sentence makes sense, but I think it was meant to be "the guide told us that the hotel was ahead."

'Is there an expectaction among the fans the team will win?' or 'Is there an expectaction among the fans that the team will win?'

You need the 'that' in that case.

What about, is it ever correct to have two 'that' next to each other? Like: 'He told us that that was wrong.'

Sure.  "The guide told us that that hotel was ahead."

 

PS: I agree that that that that that that that previous poster posted was OK :)

This just goes to show how ridiculous English is.  And I apologize on behalf of all the native speakers who do not make it any easier for new speakers by butchering the language and virtually never using it properly.  But here's the deal:

 

"The guide told us hotel was ahead".  - Incorrect.  There is no way this could be correct unless "hotel" was a proper noun (meaning it is the actual name of something)...in which case it should be capitalized.  So it would read "The guide told us Hotel was ahead."  Kind of like if you replaced the word "Hotel" with "McDonald's".

"The guide told us that hotel was ahead". - possibly correct.  The only way this sentence would make sense is if it was a continuation of a previous dialogue in which you were talking about a specific hotel.  Suppose you and the person were talking about the Plaza Hotel in New York.  Then you stated the sentence above.  In this case "that" acts as a demonstrative pronoun, indicating which hotel you are talking about.  As in, "which hotel?"  Answer: "That hotel.  The one we were talking about a minute ago."

'Is there an expectaction among the fans the team will win?'  - Correct.  There is nothing grammatically wrong with this sentence.  (however the spelling of "expectation" is wrong.)

'Is there an expectaction among the fans that the team will win?'  - Correct.  There is also nothing grammatically wrong with this sentence.  Here the word "that" acts as a complementizer, or a subordinating conjunction tying the two clauses together.

 

There are also instances where a double "that" is correct as well...

'He told us that that was wrong.'  - Correct.  Here, you are using the word "that" in two different contexts.  The first "that" is acting as a complementizer.  The second that is a demonstrative pronoun.  This sentence is just combining the two.  In general, you could most usually leave out the complementizer and the sentence will still be grammatically correct.

 

Seriously, in informal context people tend to skip "is" as well, does it make users of full gramatical structures look bad?

That's what I thought, but on the other hand I can't get ridd of the feeling I may be introducing something from my native tongue (where you would never ever leave out the equivalent of 'that') that is not natural for English.

The second, though I suspect it's not what you intended.  "The guide told us the hotel was ahead" is OK, but you can use "that hotel" in a similar way, so your second sentence makes sense, but I think it was meant to be "the guide told us that the hotel was ahead."

I see what you did here. You used the other 'that' that doesn't make a conjuction.

"The guide told us hotel was ahead".  - Incorrect.  There is no way this could be correct unless "hotel" was a proper noun (meaning it is the actual name of something)...in which case it should be capitalized.  So it would read "The guide told us Hotel was ahead."  Kind of like if you replaced the word "Hotel" with "McDonald's".

"The guide told us that hotel was ahead". - possibly correct.  The only way this sentence would make sense is if it was a continuation of a previous dialogue in which you were talking about a specific hotel.  Suppose you and the person were talking about the Plaza Hotel in New York.  Then you stated the sentence above.  In this case "that" acts as a demonstrative pronoun, indicating which hotel you are talking about.  As in, "which hotel?"  Answer: "That hotel.  The one we were talking about a minute ago."

I guess I offered up bad examples to begin with.

'The guide told us hotel was ahead.' or 'The guide told us that hotel was ahead.'

Remember to put 'a' or 'the' in front of 'hotel'.  It can't be by itself.  It has to be definite (the) or indefinite (a).  Or some other type of article like "this hotel" or "that hotel" or genitive "my hotel" or "your hotel" or "their hotel" or "her hotel".

Otherwise, either of these is correct.  You can delete 'that' or put it in.

You can put two thats together.  Because there are two types of thats.

The guide told us that that hotel was ahead.

'The guide told us that THE hotel was ahead