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*** August 2011 low content thread ***

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Scrooge McDuck:
Can someone post the graph showing work related safety incidents before and after OSHA was started? I remember they were declining at about the same rate.

Haven't looked for a file version, but here's a video version I happened to use elsewhere.  John Stossel shows a great graph charting workplace fatalities before and after OSHA...have a look at what we find when you look at the data here.

 

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Conza88 replied on Tue, Aug 16 2011 5:55 AM

The 'important part' edited:

http://vimeo.com/27762222

 

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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Awww man...you cut off the end?  :(

Oh well.  I guess it'll have to do.  Apparently  clips linked from the official site don't show up in Facebook newsfeed... (read: if you're posting this on facebook, make sure it shows up...if the official link doesn't work, the vimeo one should)

 

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Chyd3nius replied on Tue, Aug 16 2011 8:24 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pChzOaIeyxY

New Ron Paul ad!

-- --- English I not so well sorry I will. I'm not native speaker.
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Conza88 replied on Tue, Aug 16 2011 9:31 AM

"Awww man...you cut off the end?  :("

That was the end from the feed I got. I cut earlier stuff. What did I miss? :o

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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Nielsio replied on Tue, Aug 16 2011 9:48 AM

It's a really bad idea to upload copyrighted material, especially TDS (who are known for being really hard on it) to Vimeo.

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Wheylous replied on Tue, Aug 16 2011 3:14 PM

European federal government:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Merkel-Sarkozy-propose-apf-3860572769.html?x=0

The balanced budget bit sounds nice. The idea of more government, not so much.

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Conza88 replied on Tue, Aug 16 2011 9:19 PM

"It's a really bad idea to upload copyrighted material, especially TDS (who are known for being really hard on it) to Vimeo."

Think I should take it down? :s What's the worse that could happen?

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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Warren Buffet wants to be taxed more?

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John James replied on Tue, Aug 16 2011 10:57 PM

Conza88:
What's the worse that could happen?

They could...gasp...take it down for you.

 

 

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Wheylous replied on Wed, Aug 17 2011 11:20 AM

A Yahoo News comment on an article about Obama's upcoming jobs speech:

"I finally understand what he meant by "shovel ready". Someone has to be there to clean up all of his BS."

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Wheylous replied on Wed, Aug 17 2011 2:49 PM

An analysis of Texas job growth numbers:

http://www.politicalmathblog.com/?p=1590

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Wheylous replied on Wed, Aug 17 2011 6:26 PM

Sorry for the number of posts, but I really think this is worth it:

 

Petition to Apply Affirmative Action to Basketball Team:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmSzgvaJCn0&feature=player_embedded#at=267

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Nielsio replied on Wed, Aug 17 2011 7:03 PM

Don't worry about the number of posts. That's what this thread is for. As long as it's somewhat relevant.

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Wheylous replied on Fri, Aug 19 2011 11:03 AM

Not a very respectable source, but it's here:

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/08/flashback-rick-perry-supports-criminalizing-gay-sex

Also, possible explanation of government authority in the minds of people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfRVCaA5o18&feature=player_embedded

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Gary Johnson is still alive!!

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Walter Block vs Stefan Molyneux vs Ron Paul!

(Block's article he is commenting on)

 

:EDIT:

Okay so I finally got all the way through this thing and had to mention a few things.  Aside from the obvious straw man of asserting that Paul (or anyone else for that matter) purports to be able to turn the state virtuous, you have to especially love the part at 18:46 where he claims to admit wholeheartedly that Ron Paul has done more to spread the ideas of liberty...and then goes on to basically claim that his own work is somehow more important that what Ron Paul has done.  Seriously.  Watch how he does it.  Such a clever narcissist.

Further evidenced at 21:13 when he compares himself to Socrates going into the marketplace and simultaneously gives Block a sideways dig by attacking the fact that he works at a state-sponsored university.

Then of course there's the part at 21:59 where he claims to have "accepted the argument that IP rights are invalid"...when of course, as we've seen he evidently does believe in them in some form or fashion...

He's a pretty good actor too.  At 25:00 you really get a feel for it, along with another nice little straw man about Ron Paul being a savior.

And there's another great little nugget at 30:05: Molyneux says "every sane, reasonable human being in the world accepts the non-aggression principle in personal relationships."  Why do I find this interesting?  Because if you remember, not 15 minutes earlier when the man implied his work was more important to spreading liberty than what Ron Paul has done, he did so by asserting that he has "done a huge amount to promote the non-aggression principle in personal relationships"...and that doing so "does a lot more for one's personal freedom and political freedom" than political campaigns (or whatever Ron Paul has done).  Now, whether Molyneux is even more narcissistic than I thought, and actually believes his work is the reason that everyone accepts the NAP in personal relationships, I don't know...but if he doesn't actually believe that, one can only wonder why he believes his work in promoting something "every sane, reasonable human being in the world" already accepts, is more useful than everything Ron Paul has done.

So as a short recap: Molyneux first claims he would "perfectly, reasonably, and with a great deal of empirical evidence support the claim" that Ron Paul has "done far more than [Molyneux] will probably ever do in his life to support the spread of economic literacy."  Then he immediately moves to claim that his own work in promoting the non-aggression principle in personal relationships "does a lot more for one's personal freedom and political freedom" than anything Ron Paul has done.  Not 15 minutes later, Molyneux asserts that "every sane, reasonable human being in the world accepts the non-aggression principle in personal relationships"...quite literally admitting that the very thing he spends a great deal of his time promoting..the very thing that makes his own efforts so much more important and effective than Ron Paul's...is something that every sane person already accepts.

This of course means either one of two things.  Either Molyneux is narcissistic enough to believe his efforts are the reason every sane person accepts the very principle he promotes in the capacity he promotes it...or he's narcissistic enough to believe that him spending his time promoting something every sane person already accepts is actually more impactful than everything Ron Paul has done.  One can only wonder which it is, but I'm not quite sure it matters.

And just overall the way he throws in giggles on purpose, just for effect, as if to emphasize how right he supposedly is...just really irks me.  It's not like I think he actually practiced doing the video before he actually filmed it, but it's still so "rehearsed".  His laughing, his facial expressions, his hemming and hawwing, the way he rubs his noes, the way pretends to be lost in thought after reading something and then all of a sudden jumps back into the moment and continues on...it's basically a caricature he's created and refined over hundreds (and probably thousands) of hours of doing videos and speeches and audios.  I'm not saying he's completely different in real life and only "gets into character" for the camera...I'm actually quite sure that's actually how he behaves (at least most of the time).  What I'm saying is it's not as genuine and off-the-cuff and raw "I'm just a guy makin videos and accepting donations" as he'd have you believe.  Case in point, the way he claims he hasn't even read the article he is about to critique...right after he claims he has some criticisms.  Seriously?

Don't get me wrong, he's definitely got the persona down quite well.  I can almost feel the smug coming out my computer screen.  But being good at portraying a jerkish personality doesn't exactly endear me as a viewer when someone is trying to win my mind, as opposed to an Oscar.

 

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He didn't actually read the article beforehand, but he began shooting a video anyway?

Anyway, as far as I know, RP's constitutional position is relative; that is, he'd rather have a constitutional government than what there is now.

Also, Stefbot is being a hypocrite too for having a copyright notice on his website.

Btw, I never expected WB to write on Stefbot. I figured he had more important stuff to write about.

To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process.
Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!"
Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."

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Daniel Muffinburg:
He didn't actually read the article beforehand, but he began shooting a video anyway?

That, plus I don't seem to remember anyone (certainly not Ron Paul) arguing that his goal was to turn the state into a virtuous organization.  The whole thing sounds like a straw man to me.

I still haven't had much exposure to him, but the more I get, the more Molyneux strikes me as a type of self-important Randian.

 

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Have you watched this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fUYS_qimH ? It's Stefbot on Adam Kokesh's show on RT. What the hell is Stefbot doing to state-funded programming? Why isn't he calling out Adam Kokesh for getting paid by the Russian government to host a TV show? Stefbot has lost brownie points with me.

To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process.
Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!"
Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."

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That url doesn't work, but I'm sorry, someone who is anti-state is supposed to stay away from state-funded things or they "lose brownie points"?  I suppose Molyneux lost brownie points for driving on the state-funded road to purchase the equipment necessary to do his videos too, eh?  Or how about attending state funded schools?  He's a worthless hypocrite I suppose?

 

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"No" to all your questions.

Here's the link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fUYS_qimH8

He lost brownie points for calling out RP and not AK (he hasn't, as far as I know).

To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process.
Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!"
Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."

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I thought this was funny.

To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process.
Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!"
Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."

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Wheylous replied on Fri, Aug 19 2011 10:44 PM

Great vid. Thanks for sharing.

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John James replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 12:30 AM

Just in case you needed more proof that Ron Paul is a voluntarist (and a badass):

"...we endorse an idea of voluntarism and self-responsiblity..."

 

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James replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 6:39 AM

He lost brownie points for calling out RP and not AK (he hasn't, as far as I know).

Stefan Molyneux has also been on the Keiser Report, and interviewed by a few RT reporters directly I think.

He's a KGB agent, I tell you.  He has secret briefings weekly with Vladimir Putin, and the robot zombie Stalin.  RT itself is a psyop to make America hopelessly depressed, neurotic and paranoid, so that you will welcome your benevolent Soviet liberators. ;) 

Seriously, he does miss the point about Ron Paul.  The point is that the goal of a sectarian movement is to reach the tipping point from where it can potentially become common belief and general knowledge.  Ron Paul puts the mainstream in a very awkward position.  An idea is first widely ignored, then widely ridiculed, then widely accepted.  You have to somehow get from step 1 to step 2, and you do it by forcing the mainstream to pay attention.  Only someone in Ron Paul's position can really do that.

Non bene pro toto libertas venditur auro
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First the weird cultish "split from your family" ideas, and now Molyneux is bashing Paul? Serious amount of respect lost. Of course he's not going to out right call himself an anarchist. If Paul is elected, or his ideas spread because of his platform, we might not see the removal of the state, but we would see more liberty. More liberty > less liberty. You can't expect anarchy to come all at once.

Freedom has always been the only route to progress.

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Sieben replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 9:49 AM

No one individual can bring about anarcho capitalism. At best, the choice we are all confronted with is less liberty or more liberty. As long as someone chooses the latter, they are helping us. Asking whether someone acts 100% by purist libertarian principles isn't morally relevant - "should" implies "can".

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Wheylous replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 10:19 AM

At best, the choice we are all confronted with is less liberty or more liberty. As long as someone chooses the former, they are helping us.

Other way around. Edit: Ok, fixed now.

No one individual can bring about anarcho capitalism.

yes Yep, it's a mindset.

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Sieben replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 11:21 AM

Wheylous:
Other way around.
Check again. Trolololol.

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Wheylous replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 11:50 AM

Well, my quote keeps it in history :P

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Wheylous:

No one individual can bring about anarcho capitalism.

yes Yep, it's a mindset.

Right, which is why even Ron Paul himself says it's about people's ideas of what the role of government ought to be (and no, that doesn't mean he personally believes government even has a role to play...it's just a figure of speech).  He talks about ideas.  And as Block said, Paul's done more to change mindsets, and has changed more minds than someone like Molyneux could ever hope to, and so Molyneux spends all his time building straw men about Ron Paul being a "savior" who believes "the state can be turned to virtue". 

Really just watch the video.  It oozes with indignation.  He's so pissed that he spends so much time trying to be what he thinks is consistent, begging for donations and peddling his stupid videos, while someone he considers (at least in some ways) a hypocrite gets all the attention and has made more of an impact than he ever will.

 

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Sieben replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 2:58 PM

I don't think molyneux has issues with attention/jealousy. Just intuitively.

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"Intuitively" is an adverb.  That last sentence isn't really a sentence.  I don't get what you're trying say.

Either way I think Molyneux's position is obvious.  You can't be that self-righteous without having jealous tendencies.  I'm not the only one who has likened him to Rand.  Someone else in a private chat  with me just yesterday called him "Rand 2.0".  That came only minutes after I made this post saying basically the same thing.

And then when I brought up Molyneux with someone else in a private chat, they said the same.  Really, check my quick list of quibbles and tell me that guy doesn't have issues.

 

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Wheylous replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 3:43 PM

I always confuse Ayn Rand and Rand Paul...

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Sieben replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 4:00 PM

I meant that I just intuitively don't think Molyneux has ego-issues with Ron Paul. I could be wrong though.

Your problems with Molyneux are mostly legitimate. Molyneux strikes me as very self absorbed, and even a little exhibitionist. Those aspects don't *really* bother me, and I don't think they mean that he's jealous of others' success. I can see him disliking people like Ron Paul and Block on cultural/personal grounds alone, but I don't think its because he has a huge ego or is worried that they're taking away from his audience. It probably has something about all the ultraviolent sociopath republicans that the teaparty attracts. "Durr durr the right to hunt is in the constitution" kind of self serving neurosis. I completely agree with the repulsiveness of most Paul supporters, and I think Molyneux projects their crudeness onto Paul. Hence anti-Paul.

My real issue with Molyneux is that I think he's 90% right, but the liberty movement needs someone who is more like 98% right and openly recognizes the other 2%. Personally I'm open to the idea that I'm 5% "wrong", and even maybe 80% "ignorant". A good way to do this is like Bryan Caplan does - by considering several "even if" scenarios. This is different from what Molyneux does when he considers multiple possible objections, because they aren't "layered". They're independent and if you pierce one you pierce the core. This is exacerbated in Molyneux because most of the standard anarcho-libertarian arguments aren't that good in the first place.

(I am an anarcho libertarian)

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