Free Capitalist Network - Community Archive
Mises Community Archive
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.

My advice regarding the Mises Community (video)

rated by 0 users
This post has 63 Replies | 6 Followers

Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,417
Points 41,720
Moderator
Nielsio Posted: Sat, Aug 20 2011 8:38 AM

These have been communicated to Jeff Tucker and Daniel Sanchez. I'm posting it here so people know this advice has been made, and maybe others can give their thoughts.

 

Select 1080p+fullscreen for best viewing.

 

1of2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a98kZysE5pI

 

2of2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETknmvqAtUI

 

  • | Post Points: 65
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 5,118
Points 87,310
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

I'm still trying to figure out how to moderate the forum.

Anyway, as you've alluded, it would have been great to have an introductory video that show new users how to use the new community.

Also, what is the purpose of having the first page after signing in be a feed of the most recent (pubic) activity, when there are "groups" and "forums"?

Also, why is there a differentiation between "groups" and "forum" when they encompass the same content?

To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process.
Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!"
Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 6,953
Points 118,135

I agree with everything said in the videos.  Plus, there are also way too many groups/forums, and the layout is just terrible.  I'm a tech guy and I even find it difficult to wade through all that.  I honestly take one look at it and just end up saying "it's not worth it" and coming back here.

And little things that don't even make sense...like having the most recent post in a thread go straight to the top...and then after some time get shoved down to the bottom.  That has to be the most confusing "feature" I've ever seen.  I don't know any "consumers" who would have "demanded" that.

 

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 3,592
Points 63,685
Sieben replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 2:56 PM

What's wrong with these forums?

Banned
  • | Post Points: 50
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,987
Points 89,490
Wheylous replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 3:02 PM

I second Sieben.

The only change that could be useful is listing the subforums like in a normal board (as in http://www.criticalsecurity.net/). And that's not even necessary that much. I really like the "most recent" feature right now.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 6,953
Points 118,135

Sieben:
What's wrong with these forums?

If by that you mean to say "why do we need a new forum?", I think that speaks directly to Nielsio's point.  You have the 5th highest post count out of more than 40k users.  Daniel is 4th.  Nielsio is in the top 25, I'm in the top 30.  (And I haven't seen at least half the top 30 post much, if at all, in the last 6 months or more).  I think this shows quite well that no one really asked for this "upgrade".  And if it is a necessary switch, because we can no longer use this platform for some reason, or to help make the community section more compatible with the new CloudFlare, that's understandable...but one would think the values of the actually community should be taken into account...and those in charge of the move should be quite sensitive to the demands of that user base, and effort should be made to appeal to them for suggestions on improvements and what should stay the same.

I agree with Niels that the whole thing feels like a strict top-down approach, without any concern for the people who actually use the community section.  To me it feels like there's this mood of: "Oh this would be cool.  Let's do this.  Oh that's neat...let's do that too.  Also I want this and this."  And all these changes are made without so much as an announcement, let alone crowd-sourced opinions and suggestions from actual users.  It makes me wonder if appealing to users is even really the goal any more.  More and more it seems that achieving some vision of what the community section should look like is more important than the actual community.

 

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 5,118
Points 87,310
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

I would like a quote button and a button for embedding Youtube videos.

To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process.
Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!"
Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,987
Points 89,490
Wheylous replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 3:40 PM

More and more to seems achieving some vision of what the community section should look like is more important than the actual community.

Websites do this all the time. You see it in design, user interface, etc. People like what's familiar and would likely not want a new thing. Top-down stuff sometimes imposes nice changes that people eventually find nice. For example, I am generally displeased when yahoo comes out with a new layout, but after a bit I get used to it and laugh at the old ones. Of course, the same reasoning doesn't apply to governments (had to make that clear).

So it is a balance of what the community wants and what the web developers believe the community will eventually like. It does seem like the community here has ideas for what to improve without completely restructuring the site (such as muffin's ideas), so it might be a good idea to introduce features without re-doing the whole thing.

I babble...

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 3,592
Points 63,685
Sieben replied on Sat, Aug 20 2011 3:45 PM

Well, my biggest beef is that my eyes have adjusted to these forums, and I can navigate them very quickly and easily. The new mises.org forums lack... contrast or something. Other forums do just fine (see my sig) with really basic setups. I don't know why the new forums are so bad.

Banned
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 6,953
Points 118,135

Wheylous:

More and more it seems achieving some vision of what the community section should look like is more important than the actual community.

Websites do this all the time. You see it in design, user interface, etc. People like what's familiar and would likely not want a new thing. Top-down stuff sometimes imposes nice changes that people eventually find nice. For example, I am generally displeased when yahoo comes out with a new layout, but after a bit I get used to it and laugh at the old ones. Of course, the same reasoning doesn't apply to governments (had to make that clear).

So it is a balance of what the community wants and what the web developers believe the community will eventually like. It does seem like the community here has ideas for what to improve without completely restructuring the site (such as muffin's ideas), so it might be a good idea to introduce features without re-doing the whole thing.

I babble...

Yes, you're right, owners change their sites all the time.  But as even Tucker noted, when it's done out of nowhere, without any real consult of the actual userbase, it ends up being a failure...and good companies learn from this and make appropriate changes...they don't continue on the same path.  (As you implied, that's what governments do).  And yes, of course there will always be people who are familiar with the older format and just don't like adapting to the change...but you'll notice there is almost always plenty of feedback, and when the majority of it is positive, the change stays, and that's when you find the rest of the crowd eventually comes around.  You'll also find that not only is there feedback after the change, but input is solicited before the change.

Again, that obviously hasn't happened here.

 

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Male
Posts 132
Points 1,890

I would love to spend more time on the mises.org forums but the awful software keeps me away. 

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,940
Points 49,115
Conza88 replied on Sun, Aug 21 2011 7:27 PM

"I would like a quote button and a button for embedding Youtube videos."

Yes. Quote button, reliability (non errors losing posts), formatting, medium-large sized text box, easy link, youtube embed, centering.

"I would love to spend more time on the mises.org forums but the awful software keeps me away."

Yep and I think tons would as well. And yet atm, I can hardly be assed to even go through the hassle of logging in. Atm - frequent errors, and it seems you need to log in to even view threads. All these great threads over the years, archived, but not accessible? Tried showing someone something few nights ago, they couldn't access it.

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,417
Points 41,720
Moderator
Nielsio replied on Sun, Aug 21 2011 7:29 PM

 

There is now a wysiwyg* editor (a pretty good one). *what you see is what you get

The size of the entry-field is much enlarged. No preview page though (which may be fine if the wysiwyg editor works predictably and consistently).

You can embed videos, but only using the old html embed code of Youtube.

The quote-function is broken. Have to do it manually now.

http://blog.mises.org/18161/new-community-forums/#comments

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 6,885
Points 121,845
Clayton replied on Mon, Aug 22 2011 2:48 AM

What's wrong with these forums?

It's home-brew software and - not to be rude to whoever wrote it - it's crap.

This forum could be made bearable if the quote and copy/paste were fixed, but just barely. I had recommended some time back that whoever operates the LvMI forums consider using a commercial forum, such as VBulletin which I understand is pretty inexpensive to license. The user-interface is industry-standard and it just works. Also, it has threaded-view which I consider the only correct way to view forum discussions (lots of you are happy with the linear format and vBulletin has that, too... but linear-only is hell for those few of us who grew up on threaded-view).

I agree with all the criticisms of the new forums. There's a complete lack of focus and clarity. Having to type in HTML is pretty annoying, too. A basic WYSIWYG editor (not home-brew!!!!) would be really nice. I'm willing to bet $10 there's a free, open-source WYSIWYG editor in a web language of your choice out there that is bullet-proof and just works.

Also, what the hell is going on with the bandwidth on this forum? It's constantly crashing and simply refusing to load a page or loading sloooooooooooooow. It's been better over the weekend but last week this forum has been essentially "down", at least, for me.

Reference for the "powers that be" of LvMI forums:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software_%28PHP%29

Clayton -

http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.com
  • | Post Points: 50
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 312
Points 4,310
Chyd3nius replied on Mon, Aug 22 2011 4:52 AM

It would be great if Mises.org would move to use some commercial forums. Funny thing is, that even the RevLeft has better forums than the Austrians. I find the new Forums really confusing and messy if I say it simple. Tucker has done great work with other parts of Mises.org, but I think that some division of labor would be good for LvMI-forums.

-- --- English I not so well sorry I will. I'm not native speaker.
  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 6,953
Points 118,135

Chyd3nius:
I think that some division of labor would be good for LvMI-forums.

I understand labor is limited.  I would just be happy with more bottom-up planning.

 

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 6,885
Points 121,845
Clayton replied on Mon, Aug 22 2011 11:33 AM

some division of labor would be good for LvMI-forums

Reps to you, my friend! (Yet another feature neither of these forums have).

Clayton -

http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.com
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Male
Posts 132
Points 2,780
JH2011 replied on Mon, Aug 22 2011 12:23 PM

Conza88:

"I would like a quote button and a button for embedding Youtube videos."

Yes. Quote button, reliability (non errors losing posts), formatting, medium-large sized text box, easy link, youtube embed, centering.

There has been a quote button feature which i have been using for the past month or so.  Are you sure you don't have a quote button?  I just used it to quote the above.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 200 Contributor
Male
Posts 480
Points 9,370
Moderator

The early Austrian Network forum was perfect. 

This second one we are currently posting in has unfixed bugs. 

The third latest one is so obviously horrible that it is almost insulting. 

Weird trend. 

 

Regardless, my biggest beef is the loss of intellectual wealth that occurs with each migration.  The old forums have fine discussions that are gone now from the public view.  Shame. 

Before calling yourself a libertarian or an anarchist, read this.  
  • | Post Points: 35
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,417
Points 41,720
Moderator
Nielsio replied on Mon, Aug 22 2011 12:49 PM

 

Charles Anthony: The early Austrian Network forum was perfect.

You're talking about this one, right?:

http://www.austrianforum.com/

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 200 Contributor
Male
Posts 480
Points 9,370
Moderator

Awesome!  It is back!  Thanks! 

Before calling yourself a libertarian or an anarchist, read this.  
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 100 Contributor
Male
Posts 814
Points 14,875
Moderator

Right on Niels. We need less forum areas so it's easy to post and find posts to read. Regarding groups I think they would still have a place if they were hidden and invite only from the creator. This way you could a forum amongst a few users who are interested in a particular topic or issue and wish to discuss it amongst themselves.

 

Btw anyone any idea of what's happening to this forum? I most certainly hope it'll be archived.

The atoms tell the atoms so, for I never was or will but atoms forevermore be.

Yours sincerely,

Physiocrat

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 150 Contributor
Male
Posts 630
Points 9,425

I agree with everything said in the videos.

I have not even be able to activate an account on log in to the new community, i thought it might be my email address as it is very short, so i used another one and still was unable to login. I am glad you have brought back the old one.

I have seen some forums make big changes that have killed the user base, but i think mises has a strong following and people will use whatever is available as people have a hunger to communicate with other like minded people.

Personally i think that investing time in development of a custom site is a bit of a waste of time. Although i do appreciate all the hardwork and think it is realy good. I would just use already built forum software and integrate that in to the site.

I also prefer drupal over wordpress. But that is just my own preference.

 

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,987
Points 89,490
Wheylous replied on Tue, Aug 23 2011 8:55 AM

http://www.austrianforum.com/

It seems dead... No new posts since 2008

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 200 Contributor
Male
Posts 480
Points 9,370
Moderator

It was off-line for extended periods of time. 

Before calling yourself a libertarian or an anarchist, read this.  
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Male
Posts 132
Points 1,890
Wesker1982 replied on Wed, Aug 24 2011 10:57 AM

I had recommended some time back that whoever operates the LvMI forums consider using a commercial forum, such as VBulletin which I understand is pretty inexpensive to license.

This x100000000000

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 6,885
Points 121,845
Clayton replied on Wed, Aug 24 2011 12:55 PM

*crickets*

http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.com
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,987
Points 89,490
Wheylous replied on Wed, Aug 24 2011 4:20 PM

I've heard myBB works well too, and is free.

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 285
Points 4,140
Think Blue replied on Wed, Aug 24 2011 11:48 PM

Personally, I would prefer a VBullentin type forum.  

How come I need to "hack" my posts for them to appear properly, on either forum?  For me, the new community is just too busy, with its feeds, friends requests, blog integration, etc.  Those are features I really don't care about.  

Why not save yourself the trouble and migrate the whole thing on Facebook or Google+?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but I'll give the new community a try, and see what happens.

 

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,987
Points 89,490
Wheylous replied on Thu, Aug 25 2011 12:07 PM

I also prefer forums which I cannot hack this easily:

http://community.mises.org/groups/the-commons/forum/topic/suggestion-box/post/762/?topic_page=6&num=15&_wpnonce=720196eebb

Aw, Nielsio is like a puppet ;)

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,417
Points 41,720
Moderator
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,987
Points 89,490
Wheylous replied on Thu, Aug 25 2011 12:58 PM

Ok, that ^, was not me :P

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 312
Points 4,310
Chyd3nius replied on Thu, Aug 25 2011 12:58 PM

I'm not sure should I laugh or cry.

-- --- English I not so well sorry I will. I'm not native speaker.
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 3,260
Points 61,905
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
Staff
SystemAdministrator

Wheylous:

I also prefer forums which I cannot hack this easily:

http://community.mises.org/groups/the-commons/forum/topic/suggestion-box/post/762/?topic_page=6&num=15&_wpnonce=720196eebb

Aw, Nielsio is like a puppet ;)

Thanks for the heads up.  That loophole should be closed now.

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 3,260
Points 61,905
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
Staff
SystemAdministrator

A couple new Community blog posts here.  I'll try to update that blog frequently henceforth.

"the obligation to justice is founded entirely on the interests of society, which require mutual abstinence from property" -David Hume
  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,987
Points 89,490
Wheylous replied on Fri, Aug 26 2011 5:12 PM

Now that thread gives me "There was an error when replying to that topic" when I try to post :(

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,417
Points 41,720
Moderator
Nielsio replied on Sat, Aug 27 2011 10:16 AM

DJS,

Do you think anything can be done about the speed? The new community loads about 2.5 times slower than the old one.

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,987
Points 89,490
Wheylous replied on Sun, Aug 28 2011 4:02 PM

Nah, still got problems:

http://community.mises.org/groups/the-commons/forum/topic/suggestion-box/?topic_page=6&num=15

This time all I did was open a <script> tag and not close it.

Now that I think about it, does this forum also have problems?

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,987
Points 89,490
Wheylous replied on Sun, Aug 28 2011 4:17 PM

Yes it does! Check out Nielsio:

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,099
Points 36,610
Moderator
Nielsio replied on Thu, Aug 25 2011 1:55 PM

I AM A COMMUNISTTTTTT

I AM A COMMUNISTTTTTT

I AM A COMMUNISTTTTTT

I am not Nielsio and I don't approve this message.
  • | Post Points: 35
  • | Post Points: 20
Top 10 Contributor
Male
Posts 5,118
Points 87,310
ForumsAdministrator
Moderator
SystemAdministrator

Yes it does! Check out Nielsio:

 
  • | Post Points: 5
 
 
 
 
 
Top 50 Contributor
Posts 2,099
Points 36,610
Moderator
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Nielsio replied on Thu, Aug 25 2011 1:55 PM
 
 
 

I AM A COMMUNISTTTTTT

I AM A COMMUNISTTTTTT

I AM A COMMUNISTTTTTT

I am not Nielsio and I don't approve this message.
 
  • | Post Points: 35
 
 
 
 
 

 

To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process.
Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!"
Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."

  • | Post Points: 20
Previous | Next
Page 1 of 2 (64 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS