lol. oh baby, you're so clever. how can a poor little girl like me ever be as smart as you?
MrSchnapps: Found this on Brian Leiter's website: http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/ Instead of saying 'I am the 99%' at the end, it should say: 'I should've been more responsible.' Does anyone else get the feeling of _class warfare_ here, or is it just me? I was talking exactly about this with a friend who has an accounting job. Despite both being of a certain age and having seen many of the stupid things people do we are still shocked by how easily people rack up enormous debts, not because they have to (for example to sustain a sick family member) but because they do not plan ahead. How many of those got deep into debt to get a degree whose only outlet is a teaching position (and good luck finding one)? How many realize that a degree is not an automatic warranty of a highly paid job? Sure, an MD in neurosurgery will make big bucks, but for every neurosurgeon the whole schooling system churns out a hundred or more people with degrees in humanities the job market just cannot absorb. So you have unemployed and unemployable university graduates with enormous personal debt or society as a whole is poorer because they had to pay for those same degrees (in States with free superior education) without getting anything tangible in return, plus you have a mass of frustrated young persons who have toiled on books for years but realize their services are not needed by the market and they have to take ordinary jobs they could have done without university or college education. That pent-up frustration is pretty explosive material but I find very hard to sympathize with them, especially when they clamor for handouts or special treatment. Health care is another matter. Personally I see it as something a prosperous and healthy society can afford, not as much as "forced charity" but as a way to prevent some elements of society to make too much trouble (Hayek got this right). Of course there should be well defined limits to it. Giving treatment to a sick person is one thing, giving away for free over the counter drugs everybody else has to pay in full to "favored" groups is another matter completely. Finally there's the issue of "class warfare" to consider. Many people deep into debt (belonging to the unnecessary variant, which is by far the most common) want a "right" to cheap credit, if not a complete write off of their dues. While we may spend years pondering the question there's always the problem of personal accountability, which is the base of society of grown ups. If I lend somebody money and I explain to him how much are monthly repayment, interests etc and he agrees by signing a contract he should be good to his own word. If he thinks my interest rates are excessive or has second thoughts about asking for a loan I am not forcing him, he can do without the loan or ask somebody else. But he cannot get out of it: he gave his word (a contract is just a legalized version of it), he knows there are consequences for doing so. Asking for no consequences is what stupid children do Esepcially when the money goes towards founding mansions, giant TVs, useless degrees and luxury motorcycles. Together we go unsung... together we go down with our people | Post Points: 20
Found this on Brian Leiter's website: http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/
Instead of saying 'I am the 99%' at the end, it should say: 'I should've been more responsible.'
Does anyone else get the feeling of _class warfare_ here, or is it just me?
Our university churns out 6,000 pschologists/sociologists every year. It is one of largest universities in the US. One girl cuts my hair. She's one of those 6,000 last year. Another serves me food, it turns out. He friend, also in that field, serves food along with her.
They are the "100,000 self-proclaimed mustard makers from heaven, who nobody asked for" in Edwin Cannan's essay on why there is unemployment.
People who go for such professions are fucked because of lack of skills not going to be happy when they graduate. Problem is that they have no real skills, have learned nothing true, and do not want to develop their other talents if they have any.
Heredity is only 10% of mental skills, according to neuropysiologist literature. Voluntary conditioning is 90%. There is no excuse. People must train themselves and select degree where there are more opening than "teacher" or "social worker." They could learn whatever skills they need to get ahead, if they wanted to!
QUESTION
Why do so many people get angry when they realize they are in such dire straights, mostly through their own actions?
ANSWER
Any all of these people have parents much wealthier than mine, for instance. They grew up wealthy, but made bad decisions. For them, their life is downhill. That's why many feel like they are entitled to this or that or whatver it is they desire, and they expect government to give it to them, if they can't earn it themselves.
Other people who were not wealthy never developed taste for studying get intimidated by literature they have to get through to learn unique skills that people will hire them for.
Ask these people: how about they go study tensors or pseudo-differential operators. Then they can work as engineers of any kind, or go to get engineering masters degree. Plenty of jobs there. They respond with profanity, most of the time.
I'm basically half-employed. Yet I eat caviar sushi and steak, and buy pico-projectors to set up wall-to-wall displays. ITS CALLED MANAGING YOUR INCOME BY SHOPPING AROUND.
These people would have so much better lives if they played some RPG games in their youth, and tried to amass as much XP as possible in shortest time. I cannot even begin to explain how such max-min puzzles which I thought were useless have trained me in real life, silly as it may sound, to get good results with at first glance constrained means.
I feel sorry for people with actual disease. But most of these people are just losers, not people who are sick.
This "I am the 99%" slogans are exactly what they smell like: bullshit.
I think we should give BP a break, not because I agree with anything he/she says necessarily (although I do on a few small points), but because this is starting to make us look like RevLeft.
Honestly, I think we should just drop the incessant personal attacks.
I completely agree. People spending thousands of dollars on a Liberal Arts degree are wasting money if they don't develope any skills that employers are looking for.
Even getting a STEM degree won't get you a job, it will only get you in the door, but at least the skills you learn from the classes you take have real world implications and applications, and allow for better job specialization than a degree in Literature or Psychology.
I'm willing to bet 99% of these 99%ers didn't major in anything with practical significance.
And CC is probably the greatest use of money imaginable. Universities are research facilities, undergraduate education plays a secondary role, there's no really is no reason to spend tens of thousands on learning lower division material.
MrSchnapps: I think we should give BP a break, not because I agree with anything he/she says necessarily (although I do on a few small points), but because this is starting to make us look like RevLeft. Honestly, I think we should just drop the incessant personal attacks.
Show me 3 personal attacks and I'll agree with you.
auctionguy10:Not you that painted them with a broad brush- I'm just talking from my general experience looking at people's opinions of the entire Occupy wallstreet "movement" like in the Mises Daily article. Unless everyone was just referring to the people in those "we are the 99%" pictures.
You still think people are being painted with a broad brush? As I said before, I really think a second reading of that Mises Daily is in order, but just in case, have a look:
Keep in mind, we don't go to RevLeft to inform them that we're going to take their things when the r3volution comes
MrSchnapps:I think we should give BP a break, not because I agree with anything he/she says necessarily (although I do on a few small points), but because this is starting to make us look like RevLeft. Honestly, I think we should just drop the incessant personal attacks. From what I can tell, BP is the one who started making things personal. I, for one, am not afraid to "stoop to that level" in response. Conclude whatever you want from that. The keyboard is mightier than the gun. Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem. Voluntaryism Forum | Post Points: 5
From what I can tell, BP is the one who started making things personal. I, for one, am not afraid to "stoop to that level" in response. Conclude whatever you want from that.
The keyboard is mightier than the gun.
Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem.
Voluntaryism Forum
"You still think people are being painted with a broad brush? As I said before, I really think a second reading of that Mises Daily is in order, but just in case, have a look: " I think it was more of a case of me doing some selective reading. Haha that guy at the 5:15 mark makes the most sense. | Post Points: 5
I actually went to Occupy Wall Street yesterday (being my smart self, right after watching an Opera, still with my suit on). Of course, no one started yelling at me because I was in a suit, as that would damn their movement.
It was night, maybe around 9 o'clock, and the protesters had retreated to a rectangular plaza where there were maybe 1000+ protesters cooling down for the night. They were still holding up signs, but there were many already in their sleeping bags. There was a long food line which I accidentally wandered into while looking at the signs. Most signs were ambiguous (we are the 99%, we are here, arrest bankers, end corporate corruption, etc) which could be taken many ways. I did find a sign "End the FED" and I yelled out "End the FED", at which the guys holding it up were like "yeah! end the FED!" I found another Ron Paul poster (pretty big), which had two columns of writing on it not separated by a line. The left column said "stop the New World Order" and the right said "Ron Paul<line break>End the FED<line break>End Wars<line break>etc". However, since there was no separation, the top line simply read "Stop Ron Paul" and then the next lines read "The new world order! End the FED, End the Wars, etc". I told the guy that his sign was quite confusing, and he agreed that he should fix it.
Maybe they were docile because it was night... idk. Anyway, it was nice to get a feel for what the movement is like. It was nice to see some RP supporters (not because I want them to get bunched in with the socialists, but because I had never previously me RP supporters).
I was really tempted to ask signs saying "end corporatism" what they meant, but I had to move along. I wanted to take a picture of myself with the protesters in my suit, but didn't have a camera :(
A bunch of people were discussing socialism, reaffirming my suspicions. It was a bummer that I didn't have more time to interact with the protesters. I would have liked to quiz them ;)
Thought I'd share.
TL; DR; I went to Occupy WS and found many ambiguous people, a bunch of socialists, and a few RP supporters.
Pretty neat. Thanks for sharing. You're in New York?
I went to an anti-war protest yesterday that joined up with Occupy Chicago. There were maybe 1000 people there. I saw about a dozen Ron Paul supporters. They had a huge "End the FED" sign. One guy even had a sign advertising Mises.org. Ron Paul was the only candidate there with any supporters. The anti-Obama sentiment was pretty strong. If this movement takes off, I could actually see it helping Ron Paul's chances.
Fool on the Hill:Ron Paul was the only candidate there with any supporters. The anti-Obama sentiment was pretty strong. If this movement takes off, I could actually see it helping Ron Paul's chances.
My thoughts exactly. Paul is the only candidate who could actually fit with the anti-big corporation sentiment. Especially if people are made aware of things like the fact that Obama got more Goldman Sachs donations than all Republicans running for all offices put together in 2008.
JJ, I was in New York just yesterday for an opera at the Met. I came back home today.
If anyone hasn't see it yet, I highly recommend the Tom Woods interview on Stefan Molyneux's Free Domain Radio (even though the latter is a jerkwad narcissist)
Woods is in perfect form:
I dont know if I am one of the 99%. But we all must realize that there is such a thing as a 1%. If you dont want to see it...........well...............blindness by choice.
Corporatism is using state means to enhance market share and profitability of a few favored firms, at the expense of the citizen.