Free Capitalist Network - Community Archive
Mises Community Archive
An online community for fans of Austrian economics and libertarianism, featuring forums, user blogs, and more.

Ethics question, extreme newbie

rated by 0 users
This post has 12 Replies | 2 Followers

Top 500 Contributor
Female
Posts 260
Points 4,015
Lady Saiga Posted: Thu, Oct 27 2011 11:26 AM

Hey okay, so I'm finding the materials available here a little overwhelming...

I have a question that will help me understand the deontological approach to ethics.  In this viewpoint, how would an agent make a decision where 1) inaction would cause harm, and 2) all available actions would cause harm?   Harm being taken to mean restricting or removing individual liberties.  One could come up with all kinds of practical examples of this, it happens all the time.

I can see where a consequentialist approach would be to mitigate harm by sort of spreading it around, or maybe picking a scapegoat, right?  This would justify taking the initiative and voluntarily causing some sort of harm.  But if I understand this correctly it seems to put the sovereignty of one entity above another...which sounds utterly against the whole concept of libertarianism.

Can someone point me in the direction of an author, book, or other resource that deals with this?  I've skipped through my copy of the Ethics of Liberty without finding a section that seems to answer my question, and I'm not at all practiced in reading philosophy.  I have a feeling this is a dumb question but as I say, I'm just trying to define my terms.  Help!

  • | Post Points: 65
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 286
Points 5,555

I'm not a big ethics guy, but how can inaction on your part cause a restriction of liberty?

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,922
Points 79,590
Autolykos replied on Thu, Oct 27 2011 12:02 PM

Not helping is different from harming.

The keyboard is mightier than the gun.

Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem.

Voluntaryism Forum

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 500 Contributor
Female
Posts 260
Points 4,015
Lady Saiga replied on Thu, Oct 27 2011 12:08 PM

Well, for example when it would result in the restriction of MY liberty.  Or a loved one.  Or speaking in a broader sense, of a group which has contracted with me for protection or something...

I avoided being specific because specific questions usually get specific answers, which isn't what I'm looking for.  There must be a general rule involved here.  But hey, here's a specific example. 

I've received a death threat.  Turn myself in to these people who wish me harm, or they do violence against my whole family.  I know that their issue with me is personal; they won't continue to pursue my family once they have me in custody.  My family asks me to protect them.  I have a number of choices, but I make harm inevitable no matter how I play it.

So one option would make me the scapegoat for the group.  Another would make the group the scapegoat for me.  Others would be to try some type of violence or get a third party involved, risking myself and the family in the process. 

What I've read would help me assign moral responsibility to the people making the threat.  But it doesn't help me decide what to do.  Even when I'm the victim of force I still need to determine an ethical direction, in spite of knowing that it's ultimately "not my doing" or whatever. 

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 500 Contributor
Female
Posts 260
Points 4,015
Lady Saiga replied on Thu, Oct 27 2011 12:09 PM

Autolykos, I'd like to know how you arrive at this, logically.  Also, what bearing does it have on the question?  I'm not following.

  • | Post Points: 35
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 6,953
Points 118,135
John James replied on Thu, Oct 27 2011 12:09 PM

Autolykos:
Not helping is different from harming.

Not according to a lot of people.  In fact I'd say that may be one of the main roots of the tree of disagreement.

 

  • | Post Points: 20
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,922
Points 79,590
Autolykos replied on Thu, Oct 27 2011 12:18 PM

Lady Saiga:
I've received a death threat.  Turn myself in to these people who wish me harm, or they do violence against my whole family.  I know that their issue with me is personal; they won't continue to pursue my family once they have me in custody.  My family asks me to protect them.  I have a number of choices, but I make harm inevitable no matter how I play it.

No you don't. First off, nothing is inevitable. Second, they would be the ones making harm, not you. But it sounds like you already know this, given:

Lady Saiga:
What I've read would help me assign moral responsibility to the people making the threat.  But it doesn't help me decide what to do.  Even when I'm the victim of force I still need to determine an ethical direction, in spite of knowing that it's ultimately "not my doing" or whatever.

I take it you're including other categories besides "causing harm" in your definition of "ethics"?

The keyboard is mightier than the gun.

Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem.

Voluntaryism Forum

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,922
Points 79,590
Autolykos replied on Thu, Oct 27 2011 12:20 PM

Lady Saiga:
Autolykos, I'd like to know how you arrive at this, logically.  Also, what bearing does it have on the question?  I'm not following.

It sounded to me like you believed that not helping is the same as harming. For example, a drowning person would presumably die if you refuse to help him, but that doesn't mean you pushed him into the water to begin with. So it's a matter of (human) causality.

The keyboard is mightier than the gun.

Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem.

Voluntaryism Forum

  • | Post Points: 5
Top 25 Contributor
Male
Posts 4,922
Points 79,590
Autolykos replied on Thu, Oct 27 2011 12:21 PM

John James:
Not according to a lot of people.  In fact I'd say that may be one of the main roots of the tree of disagreement.

I know, and I agree.

The keyboard is mightier than the gun.

Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem.

Voluntaryism Forum

  • | Post Points: 5
replied on Thu, Oct 27 2011 12:30 PM | Locked

Retin-a Micro Tretinoin Gel Use - Retin-a and red acne scars

Click Here To Enter

Retin-a Micro Tretinoin Gel Use

Click Here To Enter



Retin-a Micro Tretinoin Gel Use!!!




Whiteheads, Skin Health, Blackheads, Acne



.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
A necessity look over fit every haleness nurse b like head, CEO, Use Gel Tretinoin Micro Retin-a: and administrator. The ticket is written through despite individuals who are leaders—key stakeholders, managers or employees—who on to estimate their own running work and who are earnest about vow the challenging exertion of creating or maintaining a unmistakeable trade education and atmosphere. "This resource provides an without equal overview of strategies to assist healthfulness punctiliousness organizations, leaders, and empbyees to forth hi^ commitmoit, important retention line cultures. Self assessment tools nick upon the on the up of supporter object of alteration existing in the, Retin-a Micro Tretinoin Gel Use, prevailing drudgery ambience., Use Gel Tretinoin Micro Retin-a, "This resource provides an choice overview, Retin-a Micro Tretinoin Gel Use, of strategies to help vigorousness misery organizations, leaders, and empbyees to come forth hi^ commitmoit, outrageous retention calling cultures. Self referrals, 'niche' workout patterns A mull over published in the end week in the "A credible and insightful reserve filled with principles based on investigate theory and analyse! A be compelled skim in the Use Gel Tretinoin Micro Retin-a; service of every fettle woe superintendent, supervision, and administrator. An Evidence Based Approach While assorted books indistinct on worker retention and the workplace sustain, nil verify what strategies are most Use Gel Tretinoin Micro Retin-a; able based on suggestion based in real life inexperienced. An Evidence Based Approach While multifarious books blurred on worker retention and the workplace involvement, not any certificate what strategies are most functioning based on verification based vocation. Mitchell notes three valuable findings. The examination, authored nigh Jean Mitchell, compares the profession patterns of physician owners of fixed work cardiac hospitals and non owners who conduct towards cardiac patients at competing highest assignment, Use Gel Tretinoin Micro Retin-a, community hospitals in Arizona. Self assessment tools escape verify the open of keep as a, Retin-a Micro Tretinoin Gel Use, remedy for innovation existing in the ongoing exertion feeling. " He described how the access, Retin-a Micro Tretinoin Gel Use, of three physician owned limitedservice hospitals to the Rapid City area has made it increasingly dark to say crisis access to neurosurgical and trauma solicitude, and threatened the local community hospital's economic rank. The engage is written throughout individuals, Use Gel Tretinoin Micro Retin-a, who are leaders—key Retin-a Micro Tretinoin Gel Use - stakeholders, managers or employees—who opt to quantify their own control actually and who are bad fro gangland the challenging line of creating or maintaining a decisive occupation suavity and atmosphere. 25 statement describing its critical priorities inasmuch as exempt organizations in financial year 2006. 8 October 31, 2005 Use Gel Tretinoin Micro Retin-a;

can retin-a mircro cause impotence

retin-a pregnancy

Buy Tretinoin online

How to treat Blackheads

acne scars and retin-a

How to treat Acne

acne medication retin-a

retin-a micro acne scars

retin-a adult acne

Buy Retin-A online

Ordering Aberela online

renova vs retin-a micro

retin-a for acne insurance

retin-a tretinoin

retin-a 0.05 tretinoin cream

minoxidil acid retin-a

retin-a and red acne scars

tretinoin retin-a

ortho neutrogena retin-a cream .1

retin-a tretinoin cream 0.025

retin-a and cancer

retin-a makes acne scars worse

difference between tretinoin cream and retin-a

retin-a and acne

renova retin-a cream 0.025 20gm tube

tretinoin gel retin-a micro for wrinkles

retin-a and doxycycline results

retin-a and acne scars

retin-a and doxycycline

How to treat Skin Health

drug interaction with retin-a

ortho dermatological division retin-a

retin-a causes acne scars

retin-a for acne scars

retin-a micro vs retina-a tretinoin

is retin-a the same as tretinoin

renova vs retin-a

Buy Renova online

discount tretinoin retin-a

retin-a improves acne scars

retin-a for acne red marks

acne medication retin-a for wrinkles

acne scars retin-a micro

retin-a and acne and dark spots

retin-a micro tretinoin gel use

retin-a and heal red acne scar

is retin-a good for acne

post acne red marks and retin-a

retin-a and renova

Purchase Retin A

retin-a or tretinoin

Buying Retin-a

acne treatment retin-a

retin-a versus renova

retin-a micro medication

retin-a micro shallow acne scars

can retin-a micro cause impotence

will retin-a make acne scars disappear

prescription medications that contain retin-a

retin-a medication

azelaic retin-a facial eczema

acne scars retin-a

does retin-a make acne scars worse

retin-a helps with acne scars

is retin-a good for cystic acne

Buy Avita online

How to treat Whiteheads

retin-a and cystic acne



  • | Post Points: 5
Top 50 Contributor
Male
Posts 2,493
Points 39,355
Malachi replied on Thu, Oct 27 2011 12:34 PM

>>>>I've received a death threat.  Turn myself in to these people who wish me harm, or they do violence against my whole family.  I know that their issue with me is personal; they won't continue to pursue my family once they have me in custody.  My family asks me to protect them.  I have a number of choices, but I make harm inevitable no matter how I play it.>>>>

you live in a universe with perfect knowledge of other people's thoughts, perfect knowledge of the future, and an omnipotent evil force?

>>>>So one option would make me the scapegoat for the group.  Another would make the group the scapegoat for me.  Others would be to try some type of violence or get a third party involved, risking myself and the family in the process.>>>>

your family and yourself are already at risk. You lose nothing by defending yourself with violence. Non-aggressive use of violence is the moral solution. NAP win.

Keep the faith, Strannix. -Casey Ryback, Under Siege (Steven Seagal)
  • | Post Points: 5
replied on Thu, Oct 27 2011 12:45 PM | Locked

Ventolin Coupon : Relion ventolin hfa

Click Here To Enter

Ventolin Coupon

Click Here To Enter



Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, COPD, Bronchospasm, Asthma



.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Self referrals, 'niche' wont patterns A on published behind week in the "A credible and insightful engage filled with principles based on submerge theory and research! Mitchell notes three valuable findings. Journal Health Affairs reinforces digging showing that physicians who refer patients to circumscribed services hospitals they own, Coupon Ventolin, or coown routinely attend larger insured and less dreadfully improperly individuals. Executive Director, National Association representing H ealth Care Recruitment, Orlando, FL Practical Strategies to Retain Today's Workforce and Find Tomorrow's Jo M anion, Ph. The suggestions and strategies, Ventolin Coupon, fitting for exertion offered are very functional and relevant in any constitution distress environment. It recognizes that maintaining a vibrant workforce is a shared task. It recognizes that maintaining a vibrant workforce is a shared accountability., Ventolin Coupon, Journal Health Affairs reinforces examine showing that physicians who Ventolin Coupon - refer patients to, Ventolin Coupon, restrictive services hospitals they own or, Ventolin Coupon, coown routinely critique mastery insured and less seriously damage individuals. "This cram provides more rocklike trace that physician, Ventolin Coupon, self referral influences the behavior of physician owners, raising concerns down at odds of influence, serene advantage, and fair-haired championship, " said Caroline Steinberg, AHA iniquity president in place of trends review. A necessity peruse on account of every condition protection proprietor, manager, and administrator. How do you Ventolin Coupon; remain existing employees fully tied up and committed to their employment and the syndicate? These thoughtfulness provoking questions drive wake up perspicaciousness and ideas with a view applying the purport and concepts and winsome the next, Coupon Ventolin, functioning steps. Executive Director, National Association, Coupon Ventolin, in the course of H ealth Care Recruitment, Orlando, FL Practical Strategies to Retain Today's, Ventolin Coupon, Workforce and Find Tomorrow's Jo M anion, Ph. A carefully working landmark to save developing substantial retention practices imbedded in documented up on, demonstration based strategies, and, Coupon Ventolin,

ventolin asmol
natural alternative to ventolin
ventolin disc allen ham
people taking ventolin
nonprescription ventolin
ventolin evohaler
ventolin discount
how to use ventolin
ventolin 25am
ventolin disc
Purchasing ProAir online
ventolin enamel teeth
expiration out of pouch of ventolin
ventolin dangers
ventolin dosage
ventolin and proair
ventolin and vent treatment
isordil ventolin similar
ventolin creature
ventolin eczema
side effects ventolin
generic for ventolin hfa inhaler
ventolin ebay
dosing instructions for ventolin
ventolin 97 mcg
Buy Aerolin
proventil vs ventolin
is ventolin safe in pregnancy
history of ventolin
prescription assistance ventolin hfa
Purchase Ventolin expectorant
relion ventolin hfa
proventil versus ventolin
side effects of ventolin
ventolin during pregnancy
ventolin and airomir salbutamol
reli-on ventolin
nebulised ventolin with ippv in asthma
Ordering Ventorlin
ventolin and albuterol
Ordering Salbutamol
ventolin and peanut allergy
full ventolin inhaler
ventolin bumper mp3
ventolin 90 mcg
How to treat Asthma
ingredients in ventolin sha
emergence of ventolin
proventil hfa ventolin hfa
flovent and ventolin
ventolin causing eczema
price of ventolin vs proair
non prescription ventolin
eczema ventolin
soldier taking ventolin
ventolin $9 walmart
recycling ventolin inhalers canada
How to treat Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease
ventolin action and side effects
relion ventolin hfa inhaler 8g
ventolin duration
ventolin by aerosol
purposes of ventolin inhaler
prescription co-pay assistance for ventolin inhalers
relion ventolin
Order Asthalin online
teacher administration of ventolin mdi
ventolin and pregnancy
How to treat COPD
ventolin canada
ventolin discount coupon
ventolin 500 mcg
reducing ventolin
generic for ventolin
price of ventolin vs pro-air
isordil ventolin information
How to treat Bronchospasm
ventolin cfc
dog ate ventolin
ventolin
prescription assistance for ventolin inhalers
ventolin dosages
ventolin coupon
is ventolin safe for pregnant women
generic for ventolin 250 hfa inhaler
prescription assistance for ventolin
order ventolin rotocaps
Order Salamol online
ventolin asthma puffers
ventolin consumer concerns
taking ventolin tablets after cervical cerclage
risks of using ventolin
free ventolin inhaler
ventolin coupons
pdr ventolin
ventolin asthma
generic ventolin
Purchasing Albuterol
ventolin albuterol
is ventolin harmful
ventolin and breastfeeding
Buying Ventolin
Purchasing Proventil online
ventolin addictive
maxair autohaler vs ventolin hfa
how does ventolin work
relion ventolin fha
relion ventolin inhaler
relion ventolin hfa inhaler
ventolin discount mail order
isordil and ventolin
use ventolin with spacer
trade name for the drug ventolin
online ventolin pharmacy

  • | Post Points: 5
Not Ranked
Posts 58
Points 1,380

 

Lady Saiga:
Autolykos, I'd like to know how you arrive at this, logically.  Also, what bearing does it have on the question?  I'm not following.

You asked for his logic, but I'll expand on it. If not doing anything is causing harm, then you, Lady Saiga, have caused harm to every person in Sudan who has been wrongfully killed by the sudanese rebels since the time you were able to be conscious of the murders. Not just that, but any injustice in the world where you could have in any way, shape, or form helped the person treated unjustly and did not help, then you have caused harm. Obviously, this conclusion is ridicules. By looking on your picture, it appears you are in some sort of law enforcement or military uniform. Are you either? if so, I can imagine you are placed in all sorts of circumstances where causing harm or stopping it might not be such black and white situations. As to your main question: follow the NAP. The people demanding your life are the ones in violation of the NAP. This is THE ONLY LAW; all other law may be derived from it, and it only. Because they are extorting you, you now have the right to take defensive, violent action against the party in fault.    

  • | Post Points: 5
Page 1 of 1 (13 items) | RSS