a) 4 years ago.
Dr. Paul did way better in NH now then he did 4 years ago. I'd say the survey is inaccurate only because the number of Paul supporters in NH has increased in the past 4 years.
b) It doesn't take much to have a significant percentage in a state that basically amounts to a metropolitan area, with roughly the same population spread over only a slightly bigger area.
What does that mean? There are other states with lower populations then NH which I'm sure Dr. Paul might not do as hot in.
To repeat what I said above: your not understanding what the FSP is really about. The whole goal wasn't to move all the libertarians to the state w/ the most libertarians. The point of it was to move libertarians to a state where they could have an influence. That meant a state that both already had libertarian-leaning policies like relatively free market, low taxes, low regulations AND a lower population that was already somewhat libertarian. NH is not fully libertarian or fully free market yet but it will get there. Movements like this take time. Already there's tons of libertarians in the state house who are passing bills to privatize state assets and deregulate the local economy. NH will be a Hong Kong sometime in 10 years I'm sure.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2012/01/201219115838331615.html
I'm very happy Paul finally is pushing the points that will win the long game (by long game, I mean the inter-generational push against Statism). Both war at home and abroad is the essence of what we all fight against. It doesn't matter if it comes in the form of a billyclub caving in the skull of a youngster that is voicing his/her opinion or if it comes impersonally as a missile from robotic predators in the skies over some foreign land. This is something that won't go away if Paul gets elected, but it will go away if Paul's ideas inspire more to think, to learn, and to act; that's why I'm very happy to see him win his 2nd place position. I just wish I could see the day when no more gods or kings rule humankind, that their edicts of death hold no more power than a fairytale.
"The power of liberty going forward is in decentralization. Not in leaders, but in decentralized activism. In a market process." -- liberty student
It would be interesting to see how Paul would have done had Huntsman not been there.
F4M - question: How did RP lose Keene? It went for Romney, then Huntsman, then Paul.
Diebold Voting Machine Conspiracy! Duh! :tinfoilhat: Alternative option: Civilization is collapsing as we speak and all the free-staters in Keene have already fled to safety in the woods before they got a chance to vote.
There's more to liberty then smoking pot. Since I've moved to NH I feel like I'm living in a different country. I can buy raw milk here any time. Raw milk raids don't happen in NH.
Vermont and Delaware were thrown out right away because theyre incredibly statist and full of statists. The other states they looked at were Alaska, Idaho, Wyoming, N+S Dakota and Montana. But who wants to move out to those states esp. if your from the city?
"One of the things you Free Staters don't realize is personal preference, people are going to move somewhere because they simply just like it, not because of it's laws"
<Mod Censored> Of course laws are one of the things people look at when choosing a place to live. I, for one, think the FSP is a great idea. Just because you don't want to live in NH doesn't make it a bad idea. Stop trashing the guy <Mod Censored>
Of course laws are one of the things people look at when choosing a place to live. I, for one, think the FSP is a great idea. Just because you don't want to live in NH doesn't make it a bad idea. Stop trashing the guy.
Orly? One thing, not the sole basis of moving. People like F4M think that everyone should uproot their lives and move them to NH just because they are trying some libertarian social project, yet I hear of more political upheaval in all places except NH - and NH suppose to be some beacon of hope because you can buy raw milk? so what? As far as I know nothing is wrong with NH, as far as the landscape goes, but if it's filled with these types of people I really don't care to belong, again, I don't form relationships and make decisions purely on political means.
It did make me laugh, but more so the arrogance behind it.
(Edit: this comment makes no sense, since the mods removed what I was referring to.)
Freedom4Me73986:Dr. Paul did way better in NH now then he did 4 years ago.
He also did way better in Iowa. And is polling way better virtually everywhere than he did 4 years ago. That's my whole point.
It means Paul "doing well" in NH isn't as hard to do. It means that you don't have to do as much work (and cover as much ground) to show a significant percentage of the vote. Other than Rhode Island, I dare you to find another proportionally similar state (population/square miles) that couldn't be easily campaigned. (I only rule out RI because I assume it's basically Massachusetts.)
To repeat what I said above: your not understanding what the FSP is really about.
You're.
The whole goal wasn't to move all the libertarians to the state w/ the most libertarians. The point of it was to move libertarians to a state where they could have an influence.
And here you are, more than a decade in the making. Quite an impact you've had.
NH is not fully libertarian or fully free market yet but it will get there.
It'd be a little more convincing if after 10 years you didn't still have less 5% of your goal of 20,000 people...which itself is only 1.5% of current NH population.
Already there's tons of libertarians in the state house who are passing bills to privatize state assets and deregulate the local economy. NH will be a Hong Kong sometime in 10 years I'm sure.
Good luck with that.
Bert:Who the hell want's to move to any of those states anyway? One of the things you Free Staters don't realize is personal preference, people are going to move somewhere because they simply just like it, not because of it's laws
Yeah we went through that here.
I could care less about raw milk
You could? How much less?
No. It went for Paul first, then Huntsman and then Romney. You have to understand that a lot of libertarians refuse to vote. Thats why Dr. Paul didn't do as well in NH as we all thought he would.
So it didn't go to Dr. Paul first. People who don't vote in the primary aren't counted in the results.
The keyboard is mightier than the gun.
Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem.
Voluntaryism Forum
Libertarians need to learn to be humble and get their tails to the voting booths.
Why do you say that?
Freedom4Me73986:No. It went for Paul first, then Huntsman and then Romney. You have to understand that a lot of libertarians refuse to vote. Thats why Dr. Paul didn't do as well in NH as we all thought he would.
Oh I see. So the Diebold machines actually make people decide on their own to not go to the polls. That's how they control the vote totals. Got it. Yeah that makes perfect sense.
It also feeds right into your notion that these free staters are filling the state and local government seats and just revamping the entire political system up there. It makes perfect sense that a lot of people not participating in the political process would result in a bunch of the same people controlling and affecting the political process.
Autolykos - @me?
Yeah. Sorry, I thought it was obvious, since I didn't quote anyone.
Because Keene should according to F4M have given Paul more votes.
Oh, okay. I thought you were speaking in general.
I think you may have caught my unedited post :P
There's more to liberty then smoking pot. Since I've moved to NH I feel like I'm living in a different country. I can buy raw milk here any time. Raw milk raids don't happen in NH. Yeah, because buying raw malk is a staple of the libertarian movement. Thing is I bet I'm more "free" in Virginia Beach who has the most asinine laws possible on the sheer fact that a majority of the people here ignore/disregard as many of those laws as possible.
Vermont and Delaware were thrown out right away because theyre incredibly statist and full of statists. The other states they looked at were Alaska, Idaho, Wyoming, N+S Dakota and Montana. But who wants to move out to those states esp. if your from the city? Who the hell want's to move to any of those states anyway? One of the things you Free Staters don't realize is personal preference, people are going to move somewhere because they simply just like it, not because of it's laws (as for laws go how late do it's liqour stores stay open? are they open on Sundays? I could care less about raw milk). If I don't like NH for whatever reason I won't move there, maybe I want to stay by the beach or move to the mountains, has nothing to do with some libertarian social project that won't matter in 5 years, especially if I have kids and they ask me why we live in NH, "Oh, because you can buy raw milk here, but we drink soy milk anyway so it doesn't really matter does it...". Also, I've been to Delaware, that state seriously sucks - like top 5 worse states in this country. Instead of moving away from everyones miniscule political problems they should just face them.
Freedom4Me73986:No. It went for Paul first, then Huntsman and then Romney. You have to understand that a lot of libertarians refuse to vote. Thats why Dr. Paul didn't do as well in NH as we all thought he would. Oh I see. So the Diebold machines actually make people decide on their own to not go to the polls. That's how they control the vote totals. Got it. Yeah that makes perfect sense. It also feeds right into your notion that these free staters are filling the state and local government seats and just revamping the entire political system up there. It makes perfect sense that a lot of people not participating in the political process would result in a bunch of the same people controlling and affecting the political process.
Freedom4Me73986:A TON of polls before the primary had Dr. Paul and Obamney tied at 1st. Some had Dr. Paul ahead by a few points.
Please show me two of each.
I'm calling fowl play.
I support Free State Project and that's why I want Freedom4Me73986 to keep his promise and stop talking about New Hampshire. Do you understand that you have made people in here to actually hate FSP?
I could try harder less to care, but it keeps coming into topic. I'm not consistent with my apathy.
Raw milk is the only good milk there is. Its much healthier AND safer then pasteurized milk. Pasteurization creates cancer-causing substances. So yes it's VERY important to the liberty movement to have full food sovereignty.
Milk isn't good for you anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Is raw milk fueling the liberty movement and it's troops supporters?
No.. You don't understand the point of the FSP. We aren't looking for anarchozionism. We're here b/c we want to influence state policies and work towards freedom. A scattered liberty movement can't work. So if your so against the FSP tell me HOW are we supposed to achieve liberty in our lifetime? What do you think we should do?
I'm not against it, or for it, I just don't care. How are "we" suppose to achieve liberty? My personal philosophy may not be the best, but it's essentially living my daily life as if the government doesn't exist. I don't need a "movement" to do that, if I find others who happen to "act" in unison, so be it.
You can tell someone what to do, but if they don't acknowledge you exist, then neither does your power of influence.
Bert:I could try harder less to care, but it keeps coming into topic. I'm not consistent with my apathy.
Then why even bring it up? Usually in situations like this people only bring uphow much they care to voice the fact that they actually don't care. Why is it relevant that you could care less than you already do?
I'm not against it, or for it, I just don't care.
Obviously you do care, since it's possible for you to care less than you do right now.
Sarcasm and humor don't travel well on the internet.
I personally don't mind F4M. Some people might find his info useful, others not. All it takes is to not pay attention to him if you do not agree.
Note, too, that his bet was for Ron Paul winning or doing well, which could include RP outperforming the polls by 5%, which happened.
Wheylous:I personally don't mind F4M. Some people might find his info useful, others not. All it takes is to not pay attention to him if you do not agree.
If that's the way you feel, I don't expect to see you ever expressing any desire whatsoever for anyone to not post anything.
I'm sorry, what?
Whoopsies on both counts, then. Yeah, nevermind there.
I personally don't mind F4M. Some people might find his info useful, others not. All it takes is to not pay attention to him if you do not agree. Note, too, that his bet was for Ron Paul winning or doing well, which could include RP outperforming the polls by 5%, which happened.
Thank you. Yes Dr. Paul did very well in NH but not what everyone was expecting. Some polls put Dr. Paul in the lead in NH w/ Romney close behind. I think something's up esp. when you take Diebold's history of voter fraud into account.
Freedom4Me73986:Thank you. Yes Dr. Paul did very well in NH but not what everyone was expecting. Some polls put Dr. Paul in the lead in NH w/ Romney close behind. I think something's up esp. when you take Diebold's history of voter fraud into account.
You never fail do you. Again, you really do just hear what you want to hear. It's bad enough when you ignore direct questions posed to you, or pretend someone said something they didn't...but you seriously just thanked the guy for saying something right after he said he was mistaken and retracted it.
And I'm still waiting on some links to all these polls you keep claiming showed Ron Paul in the lead in New Hampshire. Come on, Freedom4Me73986, let's have it.
"A TON of polls before the primary had Dr. Paul and Obamney tied at 1st. Some had Dr. Paul ahead by a few points." - Freedom4Me73986
I say again, please show me two of each. Just two. That's bare minimum. You said "a TON" (and even put it in all caps). I'm just asking for two. And "some" implies plural. More than one. So give me two of those too.
Any time now.
And you never respond to anything I post about the FSP and why NH was chosen as the state.
I spent an entire thread doing that while you basically continued talking to yourself, having a conversation no one was having and arguing points no one ever raised.
Way to step up to the plate and prove you're not dodging though. Projection is always the best way to refute someone calling you out for selective attention fallacy, false claims, and straw men.
http://rt.com/usa/news/new-hampshire-paul-santorum-405/
Are you...are you f-ing serious?
What the hell is CPCTCSS? Did you even look at the site? I could have created that in an afternoon. For all I know you made the whole thing up. (I'm not saying you did...what I actually think you did was just do an online search for "Ron Paul lead polls" or something like that and luckily found some sham "polling site" that someone else made up).
Freedom4Me73986:http://rt.com/usa/news/new-hampshire-paul-santorum-405/
"Romney still secures the lead with 35 percent of the vote, although Ron Paul continues to narrow in on the gap with a predicted second place finish with 20 percent."
Sorry, try again. I'm not sure where you were educated, but in my government school they at least taught me that 35 is more than 20.
Why are you having so much trouble finding examples? You said
"A TON". You even put it in all caps. Where are they? You should have no trouble finding at least 2. You have yet to show a single credible one.