http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymsHLkB8u3s&feature=player_embedded#!
I'm surprised this hasn't been brought up before. I just got finished watching Jay and Silent Bob and there's a particular nod to this scene midway through. And I thought it'd be a good subject to get perspectives here on.
I haven't read the works of Wood, Lemon or Vickers and as far as I can tell, Pete Garrison is a made up character. But the subject matter is still pretty interesting andI was wondering if anyone had read up on the subject otherwise.
Well, you look into a crystal ball...and make stuff up!
Haha. I did notice them name-dropping Zinn and Chompsky and was still left waiting for the "right fucking books". Because those sure as Hell aren't 'em.
Both these two books come highly recommended by LewRockwell.com. Personally I have a lot of respect for the work of Edward S. Herman, Chomsky's co-author in writing Manufacturing Consent, specifically his work in destroying the propaganda and the childish narratives humanitarian interventionist create about the conflicts (Bosnia, Rwanda, Sudan...) they are drawn to. Some of his short articles to get a taste: http://www.zcommunications.org/zspace/edwardherman Also I recall in days before the internet how good and refreshing it felt to stumble upon and read a Chomsky book (didn't know who that was, it was just a random book I picked up in the library) and get the confirmation there were Americans who saw through their establishment's propaganda and disagreed with what it was doing around the world. So I am grateful for that even if I have since come to view him as a softy.
gotlucky:Well, you look into a crystal ball...and make stuff up!
Marko:Haha. I did notice them name-dropping Zinn and Chompsky and was still left waiting for the "right fucking books". Because those sure as Hell aren't 'em. Both these two books come highly recommended by LewRockwell.com.
Both these two books come highly recommended by LewRockwell.com.
The phrase "highly recommended" intrigued me. I was able to find a couple of lukewarm blog entries from one Anthony Gregory, and a youtube clip from Rockwell, but not much else. This seems to capture the Zinn sentiment:
While he was a bit of a pinko on labor issues, he was courageous and consistent in his condemnation of the worst thing the state does: murder innocent people in large numbers. His A People's History of the United States is thus a refreshing alternative to the nationalist supremacism that dominates the conventional left and right historical narratives. [...] He's also a pacifist anarchist, so he's not by any means the worst kind of socialist.
"Not the worst kind of socialist." Great. Kind of like Bernie Madoff wasn't the "worst kind" of thief. I will grant that Zinn "taught a couple generations of young people to question their history teachers and the civic religion of US governmental supremacy"...but I wouldn't be surprised if any positive effect he had was negated by the other notions he put in the impressionable minds of young people. And Kinsella reposts something of a different sentiment.
Also I recall in days before the internet how good and refreshing it felt to stumble upon and read a Chomsky book (didn't know who that was, it was just a random book I picked up in the library) and get the confirmation there were Americans who saw through their establishment's propaganda and disagreed with what it was doing around the world.
Funny you should say that.
I will grant that Zinn "taught a couple generations of young people to question their history teachers and the civic religion of US governmental supremacy"...but I wouldn't be surprised if any positive effect he had was negated by the other notions he put in the impressionable minds of young people.
Endorsement of one man's book is not the same as endorsement of the man. Other notions he put in minds of people are irrelevant as to the merits of People's History and to the question if the latter is the right type of book.
Thank you for the Kinsella link, mining its links leads to good places.
A letter scolding Chomsky for not being more open to 911 truth?
Marko:A letter scolding Chomsky for not being more open to 911 truth?
Well, you said "how good and refreshing it felt to stumble upon and read a Chomsky book [...] and get the confirmation there were Americans who saw through their establishment's propaganda and disagreed...", and one of the first LRC articles I come across referencing him is one chastising him for basically doing the exact opposite.
You don't find that at least a little funny? I kind of do.
John James: Groucho:To be fair, I'm sure the writers of the film had no familiarity with either. Sort of like in Star Trek when they throw about physics terms. Oh you're "sure", are you?
Groucho:To be fair, I'm sure the writers of the film had no familiarity with either. Sort of like in Star Trek when they throw about physics terms.
Oh you're "sure", are you?
Surely you're not suggesting that is the Academy Award-Winning ghostwriter?
Groucho:Surely you're not suggesting that is the Academy Award-Winning ghostwriter?
Surely you're not suggesting that the credited writer and star of the film's friend, neighbor, and as far as I can tell intellectual idol just happened to find his way into the script coincidentally.
Oh, he's suggesting, and don't call him Shirley.
To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process. Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!" Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."
Daniel Muffinburg:don't call him Shirley.
a) I didn't.
b) He started it.
@John James
Because "some Marxian historian -- Pete Garrison, probably" is a direct quote. Hence the quotes.
@Marko
I would also suggest people read Saul Alinksy's "Rules for Radicals". Does that mean I think it's the "right fucking book"? :P
I'm not that concerned which books/authors were mentioned in a movie of which I feel is trying to hit a broader perspective. My favorite quote being:
I was thinking about this movie recently. The prevailing wisdom in screenwriting is to make the hero character fundamentally yourself. If you analyse the Will Hunting character in that light, it tells you something about Matt Damon. He went to Harvard (English) IRL. Apparently he fantasizes about being a misunderstood genius and being able to use that to credibly peddle his political message.
I also feel compelled to say as someone that was an actual math "genius" (which in truth means little) in school IRL that I always feel insulted by stories about such people. After thinking about it I now easily see why this movie was a hit and why Matt Damon became popular. It strokes the ego of anyone that shares his trite observations and sentiments about the world and inane behaviour. Here is a 2 minute video that is far more entertaining than that whole movie and helps to realize how bad it is and what kind of person likes it (hint: not math geeks). The character is comically absurd and that absurdity packed into endless subliminal messages is what the script is ultimately about.
I haven't read People's History but can find no fault with this:
Caley McKibbin:I also feel compelled to say as someone that was an actual math "genius"
here we go again.
yes caley. We get it. You won some awards and got good grades. we're all very impressed. Exactly how many more times are you going to remind us of this?
Here is a 2 minute video that is far more entertaining than that whole movie and helps to realize how bad it is and what kind of person likes it (hint: not math geeks). The character is comically absurd and that absurdity packed into endless subliminal messages is what the script is ultimately about.
That video was not a fraction (see what I did there) as entertaining as the film. So they pretended a relatively easy problem was really hard. In a movie. I guess we better call Scotland Yard.