(because Schiff is Jewish too).
So you may remember this douchebag from previous mentions like here. Well there's more fun to be had!
(For a guy who accuses someone else of "not having the data", he really doesn't seem to know what he's talking about. But you tell me. How much ice cream could you buy if you got a nickel for every full second of airtime this guy filled with "uhhh"...)
At what time does the religion part start?
To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process. Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!" Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."
It was a reference to previous videos. He's brought up the fact that he's Jewish before, and it wasn't because it was at all relevant. It's another tactic of people who have no leg to stand on (at least when you happen to belong to some minority group).
I watched the first video, and I was actually a little disappointed with Schiff. I thought he had the better arguments, but I think he really let Seder control the debate. Anyone who understands what is being said would recognize that Schiff is right, but he did not do a very good job of getting his point across. The problem was letting Seder control the flow of the debate.
HIs only arugment is one or two studies that are supposed to trump the law of supply and demand. I don't think he realizes just how much employers scrutizine how much they're willing to pay for employees- even a $10hr to $11hr salary raise can be a big deal to a lot of employers. I feel like people like him have just cruised through life and never really been in any situation personally where every dime is a big deal.
gotlucky:I watched the first video, and I was actually a little disappointed with Schiff. I thought he had the better arguments, but I think he really let Seder control the debate. Anyone who understands what is being said would recognize that Schiff is right, but he did not do a very good job of getting his point across. The problem was letting Seder control the flow of the debate.
Yeah I agree. He's usually better than that.
But on another note, notice the way Seder has his one 12 year old study that says what he wants it to say, and he clings to that like it was a dangling ladder from a helicopter hovering over a sea of sharks with fricken laser beams attached to their foreheads. This is what idiots like this do. They find one thing they can point to and then zero in on that one thing...even to a point of denying reality.
And the funny part is the way they try to sound like they're the one being logical and reasoned. They try to highlight this by constantly envoking words like "science" and "data". Seriously, try and make out what this moron says among all the "uuhhhh"s:
"Nope. The study says cost went down, you lose. Study says. It's a study. The data doesn't support what you're saying. The data says what I want to believe. You have no data. If you had some data to back up what you were saying, I might listen. But you just don't know the data. Data."
...Nevermind the fact that the "data" he's talking about is really just the conclusion of a single dozen-year-old study that I doubt he even read. I.e., he just heard it reached the conclusion he wanted and latched onto it. I doubt he even looked at any "data".
Yeah, Seder certainly did not have a solid foundation for his argument. The problem with Seder and the repitition is that I think it helped him. You and I know what to look for in these arguments, but most people don't. So when they hear "Study said data!!!11!", they can latch onto that, whereas Schiff tried to make too many points. He would make a point (and a good one at that), but then he would move on to his next point. But this does not let his counter arguments sink in.
Schiff: "Your study is wrong because X".
Seder: "No, you are wrong because my study."
Schiff: "Oh, you are also wrong because of Y!"
Seder: "Study says data, so you know you are just wrong."
Schiff: "Have you ever had to hire someone? I have a point Z."
Seder: "Study data is great. You have never seen my study before. Muahahahaha!!!!
Someone like Milton Friedman is great at debating. Someone says something he disagrees with and he just goes: "Excuse me! But that is just incorrect." He then proceeds to hammer it in all without losing his cool. He focuses on fewer points but on strengthening the ones he has.
Yeah I agree on all points. Like I said, Schiff is usually better. He certainly let Seder get away. Even when Schiff trapped him in the corner on his "it helps them in the long run so they offer free products in the present" by turning his own car/oil change analogy back on him.
The hilarious part was Seder didn't even comprehend what was happening at first. Notice the way he just chuckles as if thinking to himself how clueless Schiff is for focusing on cars and oil changes. "What a moron. He doesn't even understand I'm just using an analogy" he no doubt thought. Seriously. Watch how he laughs and his tone and mannerisms go into condescension mode and he starts to treat Schiff like a child who wasn't smart enough to follow his analogy without "getting caught up" in it. And then 15 seconds later after Peter restates his question a couple more times, Seder realizes what Schiff was saying all along and plays really dumb all of a sudden to give himself some time to try to come up with a response (by asking if Peter's talking about oil changes on cars?)...and of course the response he comes up with is basically just restating the whole point that just got debunked.
Condensed version:
Seder: "If it saves them money in the long run, they'll cover the cost right now. Look, maybe if I dumb this down for you you'll understand. Let's put it in terms of a car. You have a car, right? If I get oil changes now, it will save a the auto insurance company money in the long run. So they have an incentive to pay for it. Do you get it now?"
Schiff: "Then why don't insurance policies cover oil changes?"
Seder: "Uhhh. Car insurance?"
Schiff: "Yes."
Seder: "Uh...uhhh..Well, car insurance don't....well...but let's...but in fact, health insurance companies do encourage wellness programs."
The problem is, not everyone is even as bright as Seder. Even though he just continued on saying the same thing and ignored the fact that his own analogy refuted what he was saying, at least he realized it. Most people don't even get that far. They never get to the point of actually figuring out it is they who are the idiot...they just sit there not comprehending the point their opponent is making and just chalk it up to their opponent being so much dumber than they are.
I'm sure Seder still assumes he's smart and Schiff is just a simpleton who can't understand the big picture, but I would be willing to bet his ability to do that comes a lot more from self-preservation bias and his capacity to convince himself that he is right and others are wrong—even in the face of logical evidence—a lot more than a simple lack of ability to even realize he's wrong in the first place. In other words, many people are just too dumb to realize they're wrong...In Seder's case, he bright enough to realize it, he just has a strong enough belief bias to overcome any rational thought. His vision of how he wants to believe the world works is much more powerful than any evidence to the contrary.