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*** May 2012 low content thread ***

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Bert:
Doesn't matter to anyone else, but after nearly 4 years with Regal Cinemas (4 years end of June) I put in my two weeks and gave away the rest of my shifts for an exciting new job at PetSmart (my enthusiasm has lifted), but nonetheless a movie theater of our size (16 auditoriums) proved a nice way to view human action, and after some time I began to hate people.  Now my new job currently rests on my drug test which I assume I shall pass since I have not smoked in months.  If I fail, I'll be really surprised, then I guess I'll play guitar at the Ocean Front for money.  Either way I'm going to go celebrate.

Um.  Congratulations?

 

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Operation Hot Mic

 

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Some context might be in order...

 

Cops Vs. Cameras: The Killing of Kelly Thomas & The Power of New Media

 

How a Local Blog Broke the Kelly Thomas Story: A conversation with Friends for Fullerton's Future

 

RT News is already on the new footage:

 

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Clayton replied on Tue, May 8 2012 8:59 PM

Court says public has right to video police in public places

Federal court strikes blow to Illinois eavesdropping law, will allow recordings of police

Growing Number of Prosecutions for Videotaping the Police

I think the courts need to make it clear that "stop recording" is never a lawful order and a threat of arrest in retaliation for recording is always police misconduct, at the very least.

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Bert replied on Tue, May 8 2012 10:08 PM

Um.  Congratulations?

Uh, yeah.  Celebrated with a 40 of Steel Reserve.

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
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bloomj31 replied on Tue, May 8 2012 10:18 PM

I would be interested to see that question presented to the Supreme Court.  Do police officers have a "reasonable expectation of privacy" while on duty?    

If it was found that police officers did not in fact have a reasonable expectation of privacy while on duty then they wouldn't really have grounds to order people to stop recording them.

They also wouldn't have grounds to argue that the evidence be thrown out in court.

EDIT: Yeah, I didn't word that very well.  They would still be able to tell you to put down the camera and arrest you if you resisted but it won't have actually been a crime to record the officer.  Moreover, the video could be submitted as evidence against the officer in question.

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Clayton replied on Tue, May 8 2012 10:45 PM

Actually, police have broad powers under the doctrine of 'lawful order' to tell you to do basically anything.

http://www.copblock.org/4749/law-enforcement-officers-and-lawful-orders-by-mr-ogre/

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bloomj31:
I would be interested to see that question presented to the Supreme Court.  Do police officers have a "reasonable expectation of privacy" while on duty?

Why in the hell would a public officer in a public place have a reasonable expectation of privacy?  Not even private citizens have that.

 

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bloomj31 replied on Tue, May 8 2012 11:25 PM

I dunno, I'd be interested to see the argument.

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gotlucky replied on Tue, May 8 2012 11:27 PM

John James:

Why in the hell would a public officer in a public place have a reasonable expectation of privacy?  Not even private citizens have that.

Ah, trying to apply logic to the state, the master of all things double-standard.

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gotlucky replied on Tue, May 8 2012 11:28 PM

On the subject of cops and lawful order:

Arrested Development: The Criminalization of America’s Schoolchildren

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Clayton replied on Tue, May 8 2012 11:37 PM

@gotlucky - Logic and government:

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bloomj31 replied on Tue, May 8 2012 11:45 PM

Wow my school wasn't anywhere near that strict but that was years ago.

My private schools were actually much stricter they both had zero tolerance policies on fighting.  

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From the article:

SALT L AKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A Colorado teen is upset with screeners at Salt Lake City International Airport. The type one diabetic says TSA agents were abrupt, rude and were responsible for breaking her $10,000 insulin pump. A pump she has to have to survive.

Unfortunately, it seems like she's already been indoctrinated:

Savannah Barry is mad and on a mission. She wants travelers to be warned before they walk through TSA security. "They need to get with the program and have some education across the board for TSA."

 

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East Germany's Transformation:

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-59943.html

The Voluntaryist Reader: http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.com/ Libertarian forums that actually work: http://voluntaryism.freeforums.org/index.php
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Huh, interesting.  She was the founder of Drexel's Students for Sensible Drug Policy, and apparently ended up turning in a bunch of other activists.  I've seen her at the End the Fed rallies here in Philly.  I believe she was an Agorist, although I might be wrong about that.

 

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Huh, interesting.  She was the founder of Drexel's Students for Sensible Drug Policy, and apparently ended up turning in a bunch of other activists.  I've seen her at the End the Fed rallies here in Philly.  I believe she was an Agorist, although I might be wrong about that.

I don't know her. I only read Donnelly's blog. Her story should be a warning to agorists and others in the liberty movement to be careful about who your around. You never know who's an informant.

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Pro tip: if your friends are dealing drugs, stop being friends with them.

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That's why you grow your own. I don't grow since I'm anti-ag of course but you never know who's working for the police. Better safe then sorry.

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bloomj31 replied on Wed, May 9 2012 10:06 AM

You're my anti-drug.

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gotlucky replied on Wed, May 9 2012 10:56 AM

 

Rochdale grooming trial: Police accused of failing to investigate paedophile gang for fear of appearing racist

FYI: The English refer to people from the Middle East as "Asians".  They don't use the term the same as we do in America.  I'm sure context would have been enough, but I thought I'd just make it clear.

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Here's some redistribtution for you...

 

ILLEGAL Immigrants Receive $Billions Yearly via IRS Loophole INCOME TAX FRAUD

 

The followup he mentions at the end...

(it's great when news stations create their own youtube channel)

 

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Clayton replied on Wed, May 9 2012 3:43 PM

And this is why the IRS is doing this:

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Here's some redistribtution for you...

Haven't watched the video, but I assume they can get out of paying taxes. If so, that's wrong how?

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What the hell is this? I don't get it at all. How does it even help 10:10?

It makes sense in light of a recent conversation I had with a progressive on Reddit. After a long convo of him calling me names and me trying to kindly convince him, he wrote this:

 

There is no need to discuss the details when we disagree about the fundamentals. Even if it would be shown that social security could realistically be replaced by libertarian pipe dreams, I would still oppose them because I adhere to the view that positive rights do exist. Only anarchists, the worst kind of people, can be consistent in their view that all rights are negative. Anybody else is either dishonest or a fool.

In fact, I don't see any merit in arguing with libertarian vermin at all (although I keep finding myself in that situation). I should rather emulate Christopher Hitchen's approach and simply proclaim that "there’s nothing to argue about with that. [I don't have an argument with them,] I want them to be extirpated.

I guess this is it.

 

 

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That's a perfect example of one of the greatest ironies of our day...the very people who spend the most time and energy thinking about, debunking, and demonizing creationists, are more like them than anyone else.  Notice the similarity between the comments that guy made and the stated position of the geologist mentioned here:

 

 

They are long lost bretheren.  Cut from the same cloth.  Their fundamental methodology is the same.  They just apply it to different things.

 

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Clayton replied on Wed, May 9 2012 5:11 PM

Dawkins' argument can be enhanced by noting that the very same process of reasoning he explains by which we conclude that animals are related in a family-tree (and we didn't need DNA to engage in this reasoning process, DNA just "turns up the resolution" on the very same reasoning process) is employed when placing any historical fact in a causal relationship with any other historical fact, including all the purported historical facts in the Bible. So, the Creationist is in the position that he has to throw out causality en toto if he wishes to consistently reject evolutionary theory. Either that or he must "special case" biological data so that the reasoning of causality applies in every field of study except biology... or geology, or ____________ wherever it happens to be inconsistent with creationism. And this is, in fact, precisely what creationist arguments do.

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I hope that's not an attack ad. If it is, then they're being dishonest.

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Can we go back in time?

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Clayton:
And this is, in fact, precisely what creationist arguments do.

It's also quite similar to (if not exactly the same as) what statist arguments do.  Shermer begins to touch on this here:

(also notice the similarties between what he talks about here, and what's currently going on in the "anarchism: what about the bombs" thread.)

 

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Wheylous:
I hope that's not an attack ad. If it is, then they're being dishonest.

How so?

 

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It makes it seem from his words that he is in league with the Russians to do something sinister. The context was nuclear arms talks, not some crazy shady dealing.

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Friend sent me a link to why a democratic government in Somalia would be a good thing by showing footage of the northern area of the country called Somaliland which does indeed have just that.

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Wheylous:
Haven't watched the video, but I assume they can get out of paying taxes. If so, that's wrong how?

So lemme get this straight.  You don't watch the video and instead just make an assumption as to what it's about.  Then you proceed to ask a question based on this assumption which is based in literally nothing.

Did you seriously just waste forum space for this?  The video isn't even 7 minutes long.  You'd get your answer in the first 24 seconds.  Who are you and what have you done with Wheylous?

 

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Clayton replied on Wed, May 9 2012 9:44 PM

Note that southern Somalia was relatively peaceful from the period 1993-2006 from the time US troops withdrew until the Ethiopians invaded at the behest of the UN in yet another boneheaded attempt to "bring democracy" to Somalia. There was no government to speak of during this period.

The documentary misleadingly paints southern and northern Somalia one color when, in fact, northern Somalia - called Puntland - is completely autonomous and has been for going on two decades. Its "government" is more of a showpiece - law is administered through the traditional Xeer system (customary, clan law). It is not war-torn like the region surrounding Mogadishu. This is where the much-famed "lawless Somali pirates" come from.

It is Xeer, not its statelessness, that really sets Somalia apart from other countries. The Pashtunwali of the Pahstun Afghanis is equally remarkable and similar in some respects.

It's a bit of a misnomer to say that even Somaliland "has a government" since it's not the sort of government that anyone in the West would recognize - just look at their budget... $5-$30M. It is a night-watchman government, if that. Somaliland's government is not in a position to impose economic controls which makes it anarchy in the sense that libertarians are always on about.

Also, it is important to note that the concept of "border" doesn't mean as much in Somalia as it does here. People freely move across the borders not only between Somaliland, Puntland and southern Somalia but also Kenya and Ethiopia which have sizable populations of ethnic Somalis on their side of the border opposite Somalia. In particular, the Somalis on either side of these borders regularly do business with one another, paying whatever bribes are necessary to cross the border. The basis for this trade is not their political systems which are useless since they are trading across borders. Rather, it is their traditional, clan-based law system - Xeer - which is the common foundation for Somali law and commerce.

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TheFinest replied on Wed, May 9 2012 10:28 PM

Yeah, I was confused as to why he didn't take note of Puntland. I like how the guy is willing to go into these dangerous countries like that and report on them because at one point that is what I wanted to do. It's just whenever I hear the words "democracy" littered throughout I get really annoyed. It's like they pay no attention to how individuals in those countries interact with each other on a voluntary basis and just focus way too much on the advancement of government controls in said regions.

 

I actually have a book on Somali customary law written by a Dutch libertarian on my bookshelf which I haven't read yet. Law of the Somalis I think it's called. What's fascinating is the fact the guy lived in the Somaliland area for around twenty years studying how the people lived and even contributed to building a seaport (if I'm recalling correctly). I'll defintely need to get onto it sometime.

 

Somalia has always interested me though. The pirates are given too much coverage for my liking. I think if the Somali's weren't so hardcore into promoting an Islamic regime and focused on the much better Xeer, they could sky rocket. Sadly, the cynic in me sees Somalia eventually becoming overtaken by the UN.

 

Funny how much it changed since the 1960's

 

 

 

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Willard Worried About Ron

UPDATE from Rick Miller:

I am glad to see the coverage, but dismayed at this (and other) commentator's constant use of the phrase "taking over" the delegate process. This has been a talking point ever since Paul's strategy has shown fruit. I believe it is called winning, people!

What we are seeing is the passion for Ron Paul, but the real story is the lack of genuine enthusiasm for Romney! Apparently, he can not compel enough people to show up to take part in the delegate process, or has deliberately chosen to ignore these contests for some reason. As has been mentioned, if these delegates abstain during the first vote, it could result in a second round of voting- leading to a Paul victory. Or, the Republican party can choose to destroy it's position as a major party by engaging in some shenanigans.

No matter the result, it is nice to see the message of liberty gain some mainstream attention and bring more people to the cause. Also, Paul's campaign has been a constant reminder of the futility we face in choosing candidates who differ very little, and all share a common bond- the love for the State as a tool to inflict their social vision upon others as they enrich themselves. It is no wonder, in these days of big government and central planning run amok, and the inevitable chaos that ensues, that people are uninspired by a candidate who offers more of the same. Unfortunately, we are usually forced to choose between "the lesser of two evils." The difference in this race is Paul- a legitimate and credible alternative to the two evils.

 

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