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"Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter" ... Do most Americans take history seriously?

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thelion Posted: Fri, May 18 2012 3:31 PM

I feel there are too many retards in this world. The sun has better things to do than warm them up, as the saying goes.

Producers feel this will sell. I suspect it will too.

http://Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter Official Trailer #2 - (2012) Movie

 

"President Lincoln's mother is killed by a supernatural creature, which fuels his passion to crush vampires and their slave-owning helpers.

Abraham Lincoln is reinvented as a vampire-killing president..."

 

This is why socialists get elected. Is there really any hope to teach retards who will enjoy this marginal utility and opportunity cost (let alone any further economics)?

 

Stalin vs. Aliens (oh wait, that already exist http://stalinvsmartians.com/en/) He was actually defending Earth from alien invasion. Dissidents were under alien control: they had to be shot. He's a good guy after all...

Coming up next. "Hitler: the true story. His dog was eaten by Jewish zombies. Watch Adolph get revenge for his childhood friend against the Evil Undead capitalists, by burning them in ovens. In theatres near you in August! See the Leader do double-flips, in 3D. Back In Brown!"

 

I know its actually a joke or something, but ultimately, this sort of thing being popular prevents people from taking history seriously, depsite the fact that these people and their buddies contributed so much to a lower standard of living and determined the initial conditions that have consequences still today.

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bloomj31 replied on Fri, May 18 2012 3:41 PM

Once I watch this movie I will no longer be able to take history seriously.  Makes sense.

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Bert replied on Fri, May 18 2012 3:42 PM

After working at a movie theater for 4 years I can say a majority of movies are garbage, but it sells.  Sort of turns into a vicious cycle perpetrating the same garbage, the people enjoy bad acting and plots so they get more.  Thing is a lot of the more "indie" films did not come to our specific theater, mainly because it would not do well in our area (and we have a large theater of 16 auditoriums), but something like 500 Days of Summer or I Love You Phillip Morris doesn't attract enough people like a Channing Tatum chick flick or some other major production movie.  It comes down to quantity, not quality.

As far as history goes, people don't care.  They just had John Cusack play Edgar Allen Poe running around trying to solve murder mysteries.  I'm pretty sure they left out much of Poe being a drunkard dying in the gutter (I know for a fact in the movie they don't let him die that way), so yeah...

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
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http://www.quebecoislibre.org/05/051015-16.htm

 

I have to disagree. I think this is a great opportunity to remind everyone that it was government price controls of blood that lead so many vampires being forced into stealing their food instead of purchasing it through the market. Lincoln was no hero that protected us from vampires. He was a bully who continued the prohibitionist policies of previous administrations and escalated the War on Blood. 

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thelion:

I feel there are too many retards in this world. The sun has better things to do than warm them up, as the saying goes.

Producers feel this will sell. I suspect it will too.

http://Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter Official Trailer #2 - (2012) Movie

 

"President Lincoln's mother is killed by a supernatural creature, which fuels his passion to crush vampires and their slave-owning helpers.

Abraham Lincoln is reinvented as a vampire-killing president..."

 

This is why socialists get elected. Is there really any hope to teach retards who will enjoy this marginal utility and opportunity cost (let alone any further economics)?

 

Stalin vs. Aliens (oh wait, that already exist http://stalinvsmartians.com/en/) He was actually defending Earth from alien invasion. Dissidents were under alien control: they had to be shot. He's a good guy after all...

Coming up next. "Hitler: the true story. His dog was eaten by Jewish zombies. Watch Adolph get revenge for his childhood friend against the Evil Undead capitalists, by burning them in ovens. In theatres near you in August! See the Leader do double-flips, in 3D. Back In Brown!"

 

I know its actually a joke or something, but utlimately, this sort of thing being popular prevents people from taking history seriously, depsite the fact that these people and their buddies contributed so much to a lower standard of living and determined the initial conditions that have consequences still today.

In the Union Army, Lincoln promoted tons of German revolutionaries that fled from Europe in 1848 (48ers) who were socialists. Pretty sick. He was Mr. Big Government, creating the income tax, the IRS, all that crap. It's like he was trying to manifest the 10 Planks of Communism one by one.

As for the movie, I say if it sells, who cares. But yes, morally I'm against it because it portrays him as being a hero of some kind. I'm sure the "vampire supporting slave owners" all have horrible teeth, beat their wives and have an undecipherable southern accent too, right? Pathetic.

The Yankee scum won, so they wrote--and enforced--the books that multiple generations have learned by heart today. Lincoln is ordained as being a hero when, for all intents and purposes, he was a traitor. If he truly believed the southern states were still a part of the Union--just rebelling against it--then he should accept the constitutional definition of what a traitor is. Article 3 Section 3 thus states: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court."

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thelion:
I know its actually a joke or something, but ultimately, this sort of thing being popular prevents people from taking history seriously, depsite the fact that these people and their buddies contributed so much to a lower standard of living and determined the initial conditions that have consequences still today.

I had never heard of Stalin vs Martians but that was kind of a funny page.  I hope that's what you were talking about as "a joke or something" because that obvious was...and Vampire Hunter is obviously a real thing.  It's based on the novel of the same name.  And to be honest, looks pretty entertaining.

I don't know what you're so bent out of shape about.  There are plenty more things for someone who would visit a Mises forum to worry/bitch about.  A hi-fi/sci-fi movie is not really one of them.  This is not doing anything to dumb down anyone.  There are way too many other forces at work that do that.  People go to the movies to solely be entertained.  The movie is supposed to be bullshit.  In fact, that's the single goal of the movie...to entertain people enough that they'll continue to pay for it, tell their friends to pay for it, and pay for all the ancillary things the distributor can come up with (including later movies).  If people want bullshit (and by that I mean lies...but if you want to take it to mean "shit" as Bert seems to think it is, that's fine too) so be it.  Studio is just meeting demand.  Obviously I expect anything that calls itself a "documentary" to be truthful and honest, but other than that, it's all fair game.

I'll probably even enjoy this film.

 

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thelion replied on Sat, May 19 2012 2:14 AM

You know, most people dislike serious negative conversations, so opening the road to make formerly scholarly subjects open to jokes makes it easier for people to escape from the said discussions by always turning them into jokes. I'd much prefer history was always taken seriously.

Imagine the average (read: statist dumb as drift-wood) teen having a conversation. For instance, in US pop culture, no one takes seriously comparisons with Nazis anymore, no matter how valid. It always becomes a joke, because its on the list of things that its "ok" to make jokes about, and its not comforable. Escapism through jokes makes it impossible to describe anything as similar to Communist or Nazism, in the US at least, and be taken seriously. It ends serious conversation, regardless of truth. On the other hand, in Russia, everybody takes comparisons with Nazis seriously, making it easier to have a historical discussion. People sober up instantly when Fascists are mentioned, or Chekists. Of course, other things that are off limits in US that may be ok to joke about in Russia, like military procedure.

 

Alan: I just read these books that demonstrate that Lincoln was among the worst presidents, and is responsible for starting many economic problem in this...

Bob: Yeah, but Honest Abe kicks vampire ass. ...snicker... Awesome! You saw that movie, right?

A: Uh huh. Now see here, I'm talking about in real life...

B: Who cares... giggle... Its so cool that they made a movie 'bout Abe. Coolest president ever, I mean. Besides Obama (OBAMA!), and... uh, Washington. Yeah. 

A: He started this, this, and this! His administration...

B: You're saying what? Garfield may have been a better president. Look, nobody made a movie 'bout him. So whatever. ...snicker... Vampires are awesome. Abe slices and dices. ...giggle...

A: ... Fuck you.

B: Fuck you.

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So lemme get this straight.  If not for an Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter movie (due to a book), Bob would have been immediately ready to have an honest discussion?

Alan: I just read these books that demonstrate that Lincoln was among the worst presidents, and is responsible for starting many economic problem in this...

Bob: Really.  That's an interesting viewpoint.  I've never heard that before.  Tell me more.

A: Well, history remembers him as a champion of the slave black man, but in reality he was a stone cold racist.  He literally said in his speeches that white people were superior, and that blacks shouldn't be allowed to intermarry with whites.

B: Wow.  That's incredible.  What is this book?  Does it include citations?

A: Absolutely.  Just do a search for "Tom DiLorenzo".  He's authored two of them.

B: I'm ordering on my Kindle right now.  I'll call you this weekend to discuss after I finish both of them.

A: Excellent.

 

Um.  No.

If it wasn't "Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter" it'd be:

"What are you talking about?  Honest Abe wouldn't do that.  He freed the slaves.  Neoconfederate!" 

Or

"Ugh politics.  Do you ever talk about anything else?  Jeez.  Get a life."

Or

"Yawn.  Who cares?  What's good on this menu anyway?  Jeez this place is loud.  Hey is that Bono?..."

 

Or any one of a thousand other possibilities.  Again, I think you're just bitter about the pervasivness of ignorance in general and are looking for a scapegoat.  One movie is not going to turn an active minded truth seeker into an ignorant buffoon.  And by the same token, the absence of said movie isn't going to make the reverse happen either.

If that's the kind of conversation Bob's going to have, it's going to happen regardless of the latest fictionalized historical movie that came out.  And if Alan really cares about having a serious conversation, he needs to find better friends.

 

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thelion replied on Sat, May 19 2012 3:44 AM

I'll use the waves argument from Leibniz.

If you hear roar of the ocean, you hear also each individual wave. If one additional wave did not transform some waves into a roar, one would never hear a roar.

Every wave matters.

So does every movie. There are two lists. One of things that raise general intelligence, and one of things that lowers it.

Each thing matters, or at least, makes reaching the next generation more difficult, counter-balancing other things that help spread truth (e.g., social media and internet). I merely chose Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter as an example because its obvious. But most movies don't help people to view history seriously.

Even in more realistic productions, brutal historical situations get filmed merely to be used as love stories, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_%28film%29

That film, for instance has mass executions and pulls no punches sometimes, but is mostly wasted into being reformatted into a dress-up love story. Its thus becomes "trash" according to Lion Feuchtwanger, which ruins the taste of the audience for genuine historical fiction. And historical fiction is merely a hammer with which to open up conversations, and change opinions, in addition to being entertaining: all historical fiction is political one way or another.

 

Oh, and Stalin v.s.Martians was a real game, produced and sold years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRQnzlscCLg http://www.gamespot.com/stalin-vs-martians/

 

Speaking of which, why don't libertarian programmers try to raise money on Kickstarter to make a libertarian video game or something like that? They can outsell at least this...

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thelion:

I'll use the waves argument from Leibniz.

If you hear roar of the ocean, you hear also each individual wave. If one additional wave did not transform some waves into a roar, one would never hear a roar.

Every wave matters.

That's a cute analogy, but I disagree that "every wave matters" just because any one of them could be the marginal wave that puts the sound over the tipping point to a "roar".  That's like saying "every vote matters" in an election that is decided one million votes to two million.  "If one additional vote did not decide the outcome of some elections, one would never win an election."

Nonsense.

I'm not saying that the volume of crap out there is irrelevant.  Obviously the larger the volume, the worse the result is...but that doesn't mean that each individual part somehow is just as important as the whole...

 

There are two lists. One of things that raise general intelligence, and one of things that lowers it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dichotomy

 

Each thing matters, or at least, makes reaching the next generation more difficult, counter-balancing other things that help spread truth (e.g., social media and internet).

You mean social media and internet can't spread falsehoods?

 

I merely chose Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter as an example because its obvious. But most movies don't help people to view history seriously.

So what?  That's not their purpose.  It's like you're complaining that "most foods don't help people maintain physical health."  I'm not quite sure what you're arguing here, but it sounds like you want to shun all candy and sweets.

 

Even in more realistic productions, brutal historical situations get filmed merely to be used as love stories, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Admiral_%28film%29

That film, for instance has mass executions and pulls no punches sometimes, but is mostly wasted into being reformatted into a dress-up love story. Its thus becomes "trash" according to Lion Feuchtwanger, which ruins the taste of the audience for genuine historical fiction. And historical fiction is merely a hammer with which to open up conversations, and change opinions, in addition to being entertaining: all historical fiction is political one way or another.

a) So because some early 20th century Jewish playwright says it's "trash" that makes it so?

b) I'm still not clear on what you're advocating here

 

Speaking of which, why don't libertarian programmers try to raise money on Kickstarter to make a libertarian video game or something like that?

Gee.  I don't know.

Maybe there aren't many libertarian programmers?

 

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Thank Christ you guys have never heard about Axis Powers Hetalia...

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Neodoxy replied on Mon, Jun 11 2012 6:35 PM

"I know its actually a joke or something, but ultimately, this sort of thing being popular prevents people from taking history seriously, depsite the fact that these people and their buddies contributed so much to a lower standard of living and determined the initial conditions that have consequences still today."

 

People don't take history seriously because they don't really care or have any real reason to. If things like this stopped then the best that we could hope for would be back when people put an even greater amount of reverence in the sacred cows of their government's history, as was the case in most of American history.

I think that it's a brilliant idea for a movie and I plan to go see it. For the lulz.

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Cortes replied on Mon, Jun 11 2012 9:19 PM

No Honest Abe,

 

you are the vampires

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Wheylous replied on Tue, Jun 12 2012 11:43 AM

Did anyone say Moon Nazis?

http://www.ironsky.net/site/#teaser

It looks pretty awesome.

 

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Autolykos replied on Tue, Jun 12 2012 12:09 PM

Neodoxy:
I think that it's a brilliant idea for a movie and I plan to go see it. For the lulz.

I, for one, see no lulz in it. I think it's a really stupid idea for a movie. Also, I'd prefer not to watch a movie where Dishonest Abe is made out to be some great hero. And finally, I'm sure that, along with the ridiculous fiction of him hunting vampires, there will be plenty of propaganda pushing the Establishment view of the so-called "Civil War".

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Autolykos replied on Tue, Jun 12 2012 12:13 PM

Wheylous, that movie looked mildly entertaining to me, until the jingoism-drooling Sarah Palin clone with a Southern accent showed up. no

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I think some of you guys are blowing this movie entirely out of portion. It's a fictional movie about Abraham Lincoln...killing vampires...and you think it will bloster Abraham Lincoln's image?

'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael

 

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Wheylous replied on Tue, Jun 12 2012 12:19 PM

In that case we should make Mises, Nazi Slayer.

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Autolykos replied on Tue, Jun 12 2012 12:29 PM

Andrew Cain:
I think some of you guys are blowing this movie entirely out of portion. It's a fictional movie about Abraham Lincoln...killing vampires...and you think it will bloster Abraham Lincoln's image?

I'm saying that, inasmuch as it covers the so-called "Civil War" at all, I'm sure it'll push the Establishment/mainstream point of view. So in that respect, it certainly does nothing to help get the truth out. But I'm also puzzled as to why they picked Abraham Lincoln of all people to be the hero of this movie.

In the end, though, is it a big deal to me? Not at all. I just have no desire to see it, so I'm not going to. I'm hardly urging as many people as possible to boycott the film to "send a message" etc.

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I think they probably picked Abraham Lincoln because he is an iconic 19th century president and it is during a Victorian age of American history because that is also iconic vampire imagery. Can you see much interest in: Chester A. Arthur...vampire hunter?

'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael

 

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Autolykos replied on Tue, Jun 12 2012 12:51 PM

It doesn't have to be a President, does it? It could've been Edgar Allen Poe: Vampire Hunter or Wyatt Earp: Vampire Hunter. And to be honest, I would've seen either of those movies (even if Wyatt Earp was a douchebag).

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.500NE replied on Tue, Jun 12 2012 1:51 PM

Wow, you guys really don't like Lincoln...

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Autolykos replied on Tue, Jun 12 2012 1:53 PM

What's to like?

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bloomj31 replied on Tue, Jun 12 2012 4:05 PM

I think that the people who made this movie probably didn't want to simultaneously go down the road of re-making a significant historical figure into a vampire hunter as well as attempt to revise the established historical view of him as it relates to his use of power and whatnot.  They're just trying to sell some damn movie tickets after all.

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Well Autolykos, you take me into the realm of unknown as to why it is a president and not a notable figure.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCmnM5-86K8

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Admittedly very lame.

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Cortes replied on Tue, Jun 12 2012 9:04 PM

I think that the people who made this movie probably didn't want to simultaneously go down the road of re-making a significant historical figure into a vampire hunter as well as attempt to revise the established historical view of him as it relates to his use of power and whatnot.  They're just trying to sell some damn movie tickets after all.

 

Yeah, I remember how LRC was getting pissed about 300 promoting the neoconservative snake oil back in 07 and Leonidas could have been propaganda for Bush etc. I don't think the public at large is smart enough to understand this, and the ones that would relate to that already believed these things before the movie.

Plus Lincoln is already considered a God in Public School Religion and thus a God of American secular religion. They already believe far worse things about him than this movie could ever accomplish if it actually had that message; the brainwashing has been done long ago.

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Relating 300 to present day military operations is not a matter of being "smart" but one of perspective. 

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Neodoxy replied on Wed, Jun 13 2012 2:01 AM

"I, for one, see no lulz in it. I think it's a really stupid idea for a movie. Also, I'd prefer not to watch a movie where Dishonest Abe is made out to be some great hero."

That's too bad. I feel that an appreciation of parody and nonsensical action is very enlivening quite a good experience, as is being able to let go of "hard" issues if there's no reason to hold such a grudge in the instance.

@Wheylous

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Kakugo replied on Wed, Jun 13 2012 5:12 AM

The reason is very simple: historical dramas don't draw money. Blockbusters filled with explosions, vampires, comic-book violence and zombies do.

Also people may be unconfortable when presented with reality. Gods and Generals drew an inordinate amount of flak for portraiting Stonewall Jackson quite accurately instead as an inhuman monster. Say "Neo-Confederate" in your best zombie voice. Directors and producers know this well and have to make choices. Tom Hanks was very brave for giving the green light to portray how "heroic freedom fighters" treated women only guilty of having slept with a German soldier in Band of Brothers. People prefer to see soldiers dying with a single shot, preferibly in heroic fashion, than being presented with the many, many ways a healthy human body may stop functioning. Stalingrad was deemed "too realistic" to be widely distributed in many markets: war movies have to be all about heroism and impossible deeds, not about people freezing to death or being shot at dawn.

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Anenome replied on Wed, Jun 13 2012 5:28 AM

I love the idea and can't wait to see it :)

Don't take everything so seriously ppl, sheesh. Just be glad it's not 'Karl Marx Vampire Hunter' :P

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Karl Marx, Vampire Hunter is actually a much better concept, and its protagonist a much less despicable character!

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Autolykos replied on Wed, Jun 13 2012 8:05 AM

Andrew Cain:
Well Autolykos, you take me into the realm of unknown as to why it is a president and not a notable figure.

I'm not quite sure how to take that. cheeky

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Autolykos replied on Wed, Jun 13 2012 8:09 AM

Cortes:
Yeah, I remember how LRC was getting pissed about 300 promoting the neoconservative snake oil back in 07 and Leonidas could have been propaganda for Bush etc. I don't think the public at large is smart enough to understand this, and the ones that would relate to that already believed these things before the movie.

I enjoyed 300, but mainly for its imagery and cinematography. Some of the lines/scenes in that movie were really cringe-worthy IMO.

Cortes:
Plus Lincoln is already considered a God in Public School Religion and thus a God of American secular religion. They already believe far worse things about him than this movie could ever accomplish if it actually had that message; the brainwashing has been done long ago.

Yeah, if anything, this movie would just reinforce his preexisting "godhood". But I'm still not a fan of that. cheeky

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Autolykos replied on Wed, Jun 13 2012 8:12 AM

Neodoxy:
That's too bad. I feel that an appreciation of parody and nonsensical action is very enlivening quite a good experience, as is being able to let go of "hard" issues if there's no reason to hold such a grudge in the instance.

Heh, that's quite a hasty generalization you're making. Just because I see no reason to watch Abe Lincoln: Vampire Hunter doesn't mean I never appreciate parody or nonsensical action. Nor does it mean I'm never able to let go of "hard" issues if I see no reason to hold such a grudge in the instance. Finally, nice try at imposing your subjective values on me. cheeky

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Autolykos replied on Wed, Jun 13 2012 8:13 AM

Aristippus:
Karl Marx, Vampire Hunter is actually a much better concept, and its protagonist a much less despicable character!

I also like that concept a lot better, even though it would surely contain anti-capitalist themes.

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Neodoxy replied on Wed, Jun 13 2012 1:21 PM

" Finally, nice try at imposing your subjective values on me. cheeky"

I try my best.

 

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Autolykos replied on Wed, Jun 13 2012 1:22 PM

Heh, either you don't think that's what you were doing or you don't have a problem with doing it. Which is it? cheeky

 

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Wheylous replied on Thu, Jun 14 2012 3:36 AM

"I should be paid very little for my service to humanity, for I kill vampires so easily"

LTV anyone? cheeky

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Saw the movie earlier this weekend. 

It wasn't as bad as expected, but it certainly took a lot of license in history. The Emancipation Proclamation in the movie for example freed slaves in both the Confederacy and the north. What really made me cringe was when Lincoln confiscated all the silver in the northern states under executive order. The  logic being that they needed all that silver to make silver weapons to fight the Confederate vampires. Does this mean FDR needed gold to fight off the menance of the werewolves?

Those things aside, the movie over used the slow motion effect. Not really worth seeing besides the sheer absurdity of the plot.

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