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It seems like this community is a little lacking?

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saveyourself1 Posted: Thu, May 31 2012 7:52 PM

my first day here....but the kinds of things I've been reading and how you guys talk to each other seems to be rather strange.....

I don't mean to insinuate everyone or anything like that or make this to be even true, as it could be just a matter of time...but....people here are pretty

sarcastic...defensive and a lil attacky? anyone else experience this?

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Clayton replied on Thu, May 31 2012 7:54 PM

Have you seen the Internet before? People get touchy on here but that's everywhere and I've seen far more intrusive Mods and far less courteous communities.

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I'm not so sure your opening post and your thread title are congruent.  I would tend to agree with the post, but I don't think that necessarily means there's anything "lacking".  I actually think you have quite a bit of everything here.  smiley

 

But then again, as Clayton points out, that could be said for most places on the Interent.  (It is of course, the Internet).  If anything I would tend to agree with him in that we actually have more civility, and more logic, and more genuine debate here than most other places.  (Definitely more logic).

Stick around.  You might have some fun!

Definitely check out The Ultimate Beginner meta-thread.  (I made it just for you )  It's really the best plac to start. (Also be sure to check out the welcome link there for forum tips and how-to's)  Great to have you

 

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this is exactly what I mean....

by lacking, I mean attacky (lacking value of others)....defensive (overly fearful of ego/pride etc?)....

to take one thing, how is it considered 'full' or 'unlacking' to have attacky people?....nevertheless this isn't about semantics...

we could have a difference in opinion of virtues....but from my definitions this place is pretty brute for an intellectual community I thought it would be a bit different.

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saveyourself1:
this place is pretty brute for an intellectual community I thought it would be a bit different.

Well, for one thing, it would really depend on how you define "intellectual community".  Because you have to realize, at the end of the day this is a free sign-up, automatically-approved Internet forum.

What were you expecting exactly?

 

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Clayton replied on Thu, May 31 2012 8:21 PM

this place is pretty brute

I suppose you'll consider it attacky for me to ask for some specific examples because I don't understand what you're on about.

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Clayton:
this place is pretty brute
I suppose you'll consider it attacky for me to ask for some specific examples because I don't understand what you're on about.

How about your avatar, for one, Attacky Attacker-kick someone down a bottomless pit-erson.

 

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There are a few posters here who post prolifically, and have a tendency to go into needless BS, with a bad habit of derailing threads with low-content squabbling.

It is, unfortunately, a very small forum for what it is.  The echo chamber has gotten worse since I got here.  Still, some good conversations can be had.  They just really need to fix the damn forum software and I think we'll see an increase in the number of contributers.

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Okay so i singed up here a while ago.  I been lurcking for a while.  I figure this is as good a time as any for my first post smiley

I see what you mean, but at the same time I guess i'm kinda use to it.  Forums are like that sometimes.  A lot of times actually.  But I definitely get more out of most of the stuff here than anywhere else I found.

Prob some of the best education I've had

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Well this is the internet, and in addition to that most of the users of this forum understand something that is so clearly true, yet are constantly ridiculed by the most robust ignoramuses.  The users here are therefore more likely to be those who don't stand for people spouting crap (which is perhaps a rare breed).  Apparently Mises himself could be 'defensive and a lil attacky' at times.

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If you see people with 300 posts plus talking to eachother chances are its two people who have talked enough with each other in the past to get to know each other.  If people are doing it to new people you have a point

"As in a kaleidoscope, the constellation of forces operating in the system as a whole is ever changing." - Ludwig Lachmann

"When A Man Dies A World Goes Out of Existence"  - GLS Shackle

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Aristippus:
Apparently Mises himself could be 'defensive and a lil attacky' at times.

Reason Magazine: But you knew Mises personally. Did you see the intolerance that you find in his method also in his personal behavior?

Milton Friedman: No question. The story I remember best happened at the initial Mont Pelerin meeting when he got up and said, "You're all a bunch of socialists." We were discussing the distribution of income, and whether you should have progressive income taxes. Some of the people there were expressing the view that there could be a justification for it.

Another occasion which is equally telling: Fritz Machlup was a student of Mises's, one of his most faithful disciples. At one of the Mont Pelerin meetings, Fritz gave a talk in which I think he questioned the idea of a gold standard; he came out in favor of floating exchange rates. Mises was so mad he wouldn't speak to him for three years. Some people had to come around and bring them together again.

 

Maybe we all just have a little Mises in us smiley

Perhaps that's why they call us "MIsesians"!  aaahhh!

 

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The bird is the word.

 

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I have never laughed so much in the last month. Man, I have tears in my eyes.

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Neodoxy replied on Thu, May 31 2012 9:42 PM

Forums are generally "attacky". I make it one of my goals to try to keep discussion as civil as possible, but trust me, with how stupid both parties think the other party is within an ideological internet debate, it's really great that we have as civil a community even if there there are one or two people who are not... Team players.

At last those coming came and they never looked back With blinding stars in their eyes but all they saw was black...
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Ancap66 replied on Thu, May 31 2012 10:04 PM

sarcastic...defensive and a lil attacky? anyone else experience this?

I have encountered the Mises atmosphere at another forum... what were the similarities?

  • Both forums have blunt features and bland aesthetics. This creates an impersonal flavor which, due to the anonymity of the internet, can sometimes induce hostility. The YouTube comments section is an extreme example.
  • The forum members feel intuitively that they are right about an issue, but because everyone else in society expresses a contrary opinion, it is very easy to slip back into propaganda-feeding zombie mode. In these circumstances, people react defensively to contrary opinions because they're afraid of being "bitten".
  • The members are also very sarcastic, which is what happens after you've seen a line of cars driving off the same cliff, and can seemingly do nothing to stop them.
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John James replied on Thu, May 31 2012 10:48 PM

Ancap66:
I have encountered the Mises atmosphere at another forum... what were the similarities?

  • Both forums have blunt features and bland aesthetics. This creates an impersonal flavor which, due to the anonymity of the internet, can sometimes induce hostility.

That sounds like "the Internet".

 

The forum members feel intuitively that they are right about an issue, but because everyone else in society expresses a contrary opinion, it is very easy to slip back into propaganda-feeding zombie mode. In these circumstances, people react defensively to contrary opinions because they're afraid of being "bitten".

I actually think that's the case here a lot less often than most other places.  Indeed, here people generally have a good idea of what their philosophy is and why they subscribe to it.  They are also usually at least somewhat familiar with basic concepts of economics, political philosophy, and logic.  In most other places, you are quite likely to find all of these (to borrow the OP's term) "lacking".  It is for this reason that it is in those places you would typically see the auto-defense response...as claiming to subscribe to something and having no real understanding of what it is (let alone why they subscribe to it) is a very vulnerable place to be.

I find that people here are quite willing to have their positions challenged, and will actually engage in actual debate, or at least intellectual discourse, most of the time.

Despite what others may say, I find that there is a certainly level of intellectual respect and courtesy for others who display not even necessarily a certain level of knowledge, but just a certain level of genuine interest and intellectual honesty.  (Of course exhibiting healthy logic goes a long way.)

Just because the tone may come off a bit locker-roomish doesn't mean there is animosity or disgust.  As Neo said, most of the posts here are from "regulars" who more or less know each other and have at least somewhat of a rapport.  You can't let people who basically know each other busting each other's balls make you think this is actually a hostile place.

I actually feel kind of sorry for anyone who does...and fear for them if they ever venture virtually anywhere else on the Internet.  (I suppose YouTube is curbed because of the character limit.)  But seriously.  Go anywhere.  Visit some blogs.  Visit other forums.  Sure the aire is a bit more intellectual here, and the vocabulary is a bit higher, and the subject matter is that which a lot of people might consider dry, or above their heads, or outside of their realm of concern or interest...but an Internet forum is an Internet forum...is an Internet forum.

Every one is going to have essentially the same dynamic.  Just in different degrees and different flavors.  If you don't like the one you find, there are literally a million others to choose from.  Go check them out.

 

The members are also very sarcastic, which is what happens after you've seen a line of cars driving off the same cliff, and can seemingly do nothing to stop them.

Maybe.  But I still tend to think you find this anywhere.  Although you may be right that it's more common among higher-level thinkers.

 

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Clayton replied on Thu, May 31 2012 11:11 PM

They just really need to fix the damn forum software and I think we'll see an increase in the number of contributers.

This.

Perhaps we need the government to build reliable forums because of the clear market-failure.

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John James replied on Thu, May 31 2012 11:19 PM

Clayton:
Perhaps we need the government to build reliable forums because of the clear market-failure.

What if Mises.org is an arm of the government?

 

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Clayton replied on Thu, May 31 2012 11:30 PM

Oh, and about sarcasm, I am in love with sarcasm. I love it so much, I even laugh when I'm on the butt end of good, quality sarcasm. I want to be Mencken when I grow up. Sarcasm is like a verbal razor blade that can slice through the waist-deep rat's nest that the hive mind weaves out of thin air. It's like carseats. Or Osama bin Laden. Or the American Dream. They are all 100% pure, unadultered, refined, sugar-enhanced, twice-fermented bull shit.

Of course, sarcasm is a weapon that can serve good or evil so it should be used with care and newbies should not be subjected to more sarcasm than they deign to deal. Most importantly, sarcasm should almost exclusively be aimed at ideas, not frequenters of the boards unless a particular frequenter is a known troll or all-round ass. In that case, I say let the verbal razor-blades flay them alive!

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Perhaps we need the government to build reliable forums because of the clear market-failure.

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Someone took a bite outta dat guy's ass!

And he dropped his mask on the ground.  I wonder if he knows it's there.

 

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Autolykos replied on Thu, Jun 28 2012 8:29 PM

proxyamenra:
I have never laughed so much in the last month. Man, I have tears in my eyes.

I know this is late, but what exactly were you laughing at?

The keyboard is mightier than the gun.

Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem.

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I think Mises is a fucking boss for walking out on those wannabes.

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well i personally like how the forum layout looks like, but the list of threads should be improved.

“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence."
"The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”

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Wheylous replied on Fri, Jun 29 2012 2:12 PM

Guys - this forum is too simplistic. We need more complex arabesque curves.

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I think if we get a good enough coder there's a way we could give the forum steatopygia.

 

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