The newsletters, opposition to Civil Rights Act, no gold medal for Rosa Parks, Don Black donation..Is this enough to prosecute Ron Paul as a racist. Or is this just slander and speculation?
Were you intending to be sarcastic?
At this stage I'll simply ask: who cares?
-Jon
Freedom of markets is positively correlated with the degree of evolution in any society...
No, all of that is soundly libertarian. Why should businesses be forced to accept business from minorities if they don't want to? The CRA is probably unconstitutional. Why should the federal government provide a gold medal for Rosa Parks? Is that the proper role of government? The newsletters not written by Ron Paul... who cares? The Don Black donation... so DB thought RP was tough on immigration, when in reality Ron Paul advocated the rule of law but at the same time wanted immigration restrictions relaxed (which Don Black and stormfront probably wouldn't be too happy about). At the same time, many stormfronters support Ron Paul because of his stance against NAFTA. The other side of the coin shows that Ron Paul is against NAFTA because it subsidizes some businesses and isn't truly free trade: he would get rid of "trade agreements" and genuinely engage in free trade by lowering or even eliminating tariffs.
Ron Paul is a true minarchist from the social contract perspective, IMO, but I don't think many people actually realize that. He seems to genuinely believe that everyone has natural rights, some of which must be given up for government. At the same time, he seems to believe in less government at all fronts which shows his minarchist colors.
Political Atheists Blog
no
RP was correct on all the above stated issues. And who cares anyways? Hopefully those of us in this community are above branding others with Marxist nonsense terms ending with "ist" or inventing "isms."
“We ought to obey God rather than men.” -Acts 5:29.
"Slaves before God, free before all others." -Boer Motto.
krazy kaju:Ron Paul is a true minarchist from the social contract perspective, IMO, but I don't think many people actually realize that. He seems to genuinely believe that everyone has natural rights, some of which must be given up for government. At the same time, he seems to believe in less government at all fronts which shows his minarchist colors.
There is no proof of this. In fact, if you listen to is rhetoric, particularly his post campaign rhetoric, it's hard to distinguish him from many other libertarians. He's avoided talking policy, about political change, and seems to be speaking much more philosophically.
To some people, if you're not a flaming anarchist, then you're a statist. At 72, I think Paul has learned how to be soft spoken and selective about his beliefs.
The Newsletters
They were not penned by him, though they have his name written on it. However, he take full responsibility for what was said, and recants much of it. This happened nearly 20 years ago, and to my knowledge, there hasn't been a recurrance.
Oppositions to Civil Rights Act
He was not in office when the original act went through, but voted NO on its commemoration decades later. Many of the provisions Civil Rights Act were unconstitutional, not to mention harmful towards private property. Suffice it to say, if we turned to and enforced the constitution with respect to individual rights, the Civil Rights Act would have never been necessary. It is not necessary.
No Gold Medal for Rosa Parks
He suggested that each of the congressmen pitch in, rather than spend the taxpayers money. It was also not within the jurisdiction of Congress, hence unconstitutional.
Don Black
Ron Paul protects the individual rights of individuals, even racists. Don Black knew what he was giving his money to, it was his choice to support whoever he likes.
Not Racist at all.
liberty student:To some people, if you're not a flaming anarchist, then you're a statist. At 72, I think Paul has learned how to be soft spoken and selective about his beliefs.
Was that sarcastic? Anyway, I loved it when he talked against the Cuba embargo and minimum wage in the Florida debate. Boy, he got more hisses then than the all other debates together about such things as the Iraq war. :)
To the original poster: I think others already addressed your points (e.g. he always suggests for congressmen to pay for medals from their own pockets; he of course votes against being charitable with other people's money), but it puzzles me that you suggest someone should be prosecuted for being a racist. It might not be nice, and you might not want to associate yourself with such a person, but as long as they don't practice it, and keep it to themselves, you're just going to create more hatred and solidify their belief system if you go on chasing them.
Equality before the law and material equality are not only different but are in conflict with each other; and we can achieve either one or the other, but not both at the same time. -- F. A. Hayek in The Constitution of Liberty
wowdavidp1:Is this enough to prosecute Ron Paul as a racist.
LOL
Wow, so they hissed at lifting embargoes on a communist country, yet they have no problem with communism in the USA? Cognitive dissonance, much?
I think we had a similar thread a while ago.
wowdavidp1:The newsletters, opposition to Civil Rights Act, no gold medal for Rosa Parks, Don Black donation..Is this enough to prosecute Ron Paul as a racist. Or is this just slander and speculation?
But let's look what they have. What statement/action of him do the consider "being racist"?
With all these "Ron Paul is a racist" comments, I've been waiting for someone to come along and say "Ron Paul is an anti-semite", so I can post a picture of his office with drawn-in red circles around the pictures of Ludwig Von Mises and Murray Rothbard on his wall and say, "His biggest heroes are Jews."
No takers yet though. Although, I'm kind of expecting it, since claims of anti-semitism and racism seem to go hand-in-hand.
Latest Projects
"Even when leftists talk about discrimination and sexism, they're damn well talking about the results of the economic system" ~Neodoxy
Fephisto: With all these "Ron Paul is a racist" comments, I've been waiting for someone to come along and say "Ron Paul is an anti-semite", so I can post a picture of his office with drawn-in red circles around the pictures of Ludwig Von Mises and Murray Rothbard on his wall and say, "His biggest heroes are Jews." No takers yet though. Although, I'm kind of expecting it, since claims of anti-semitism and racism seem to go hand-in-hand.
Actually, there were claims (I don't know how mainstream) calling Ron Paul an anti-semite mainly due to his lack of support for Israel and his Nazi/nationalist supporters.
Jon Irenicus: Was that sarcastic? Anyway, I loved it when he talked against the Cuba embargo and minimum wage in the Florida debate. Boy, he got more hisses then than the all other debates together about such things as the Iraq war. :) Wow, so they hissed at lifting embargoes on a communist country, yet they have no problem with communism in the USA? Cognitive dissonance, much? -Jon
Haha, so, so true. I think many people don't even realize that the minimum wage was actually an invention of Marx. He argued that unions were good because they prevented wages from falling below what Marx would arbitrarily consider "proper" during times of recession.
ViennaSausage: Oppositions to Civil Rights Act He was not in office when the original act went through, but voted NO on its commemoration decades later. Many of the provisions Civil Rights Act were unconstitutional, not to mention harmful towards private property. Suffice it to say, if we turned to and enforced the constitution with respect to individual rights, the Civil Rights Act would have never been necessary. It is not necessary.
ViennaSausage: No Gold Medal for Rosa Parks He suggested that each of the congressmen pitch in, rather than spend the taxpayers money. It was also not within the jurisdiction of Congress, hence unconstitutional.
ViennaSausage: Don Black Ron Paul protects the individual rights of individuals, even racists. Don Black knew what he was giving his money to, it was his choice to support whoever he likes.
ViennaSausage: The Newsletters They were not penned by him, though they have his name written on it. However, he take full responsibility for what was said, and recants much of it. This happened nearly 20 years ago, and to my knowledge, there hasn't been a recurrance.
A mob of black demonstrators, led by the "Rev." Al Sharpton, occupied and closed the Statue of Liberty recently, demanding that New York be renamed Martin Luther King City "to reclaim it for our people." Hmmm. I hate to agree with the Rev. Al, but maybe a name change is in order. Welfaria? Zooville? Rapetown? Dirtburg? Lazyopolis? But Al, the Statue of Liberty? Next time, hold that demonstration at a food stamp bureau or a crack house. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/8/185438/7845/186/433066
Hmmm. I hate to agree with the Rev. Al, but maybe a name change is in order. Welfaria? Zooville? Rapetown? Dirtburg? Lazyopolis?
But Al, the Statue of Liberty? Next time, hold that demonstration at a food stamp bureau or a crack house. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/1/8/185438/7845/186/433066
ViennaSausage:Not Racist at all.
Torsten: But could someone please explain what the conditions are for not being suspected of "racism"?
But could someone please explain what the conditions are for not being suspected of "racism"?
You're not considered racist if you hate white people and call for the abolition of the white race (i.e. Noel Ignatiev).
This is a sad, sad world, isn't it?
Geez. I think the word racist is thrown around way too much.
Racist: No
Statist: Yes
Like many people here, I don't care if Ron Paul is a racist. If you hate the Japanese, but promote individual property rights for them and everyone else, this is hardly my problem.
My problem with Ron Paul is much more one of political activity, and minarchism. I think his strategic approach is fundamentally retarded.
Vinnie: Racist: No Statist: Yes
So you are rather conservative with assigning the "racist" label, but you are assigning the "statist" label to anyone who isn't a anarchist purist?!
Torsten: So you are rather conservative with assigning the "racist" label, but you are assigning the "statist" label to anyone who isn't a anarchist purist?!
If you're not an anarchist you're a statist. It's just the definition of the word "statist." I have to say, as an anarchist, I don't have a problem with Ron Paul. He brought many people, including me, into the libertarian movement.
krazy kaju:If you're not an anarchist you're a statist.
What about tribalists, feudalists etc. ? I do not think one should limit the definitions to their positioning in current Western Thinking. There were political philosophies, before the rise of the modern state. And there is a variety of them. Similar issues would apply to terms like "collectivism" and the like.
Torsten: krazy kaju:If you're not an anarchist you're a statist. What about tribalists, feudalists etc. ? I do not think one should limit the definitions to their positioning in current Western Thinking. There were political philosophies, before the rise of the modern state.
What about tribalists, feudalists etc. ? I do not think one should limit the definitions to their positioning in current Western Thinking. There were political philosophies, before the rise of the modern state.
good point
GilesStratton: Racism is a natural and rational part of the human condition. Even those that denounce it probably only come into contact with blacks when they're looking to buy some drugs.
Racism is a natural and rational part of the human condition. Even those that denounce it probably only come into contact with blacks when they're looking to buy some drugs.
I think quibbling over whether something is racist or not is idiotic. Racism is not bad, in and of itself. The better way to analyze someone's ations is whether they're rational or irrational, rather than racist or non-racist.
For example:
Asking the Asian kid for help on your engineering homework. Racist? Yes. Rational? Yes. OK.
Treating a person as if it were livestock simply because their skin is a different color than yours. Racist? Yes. Rational? No. Not OK.
lol wtf?
liberty student: krazy kaju:Ron Paul is a true minarchist from the social contract perspective, IMO, but I don't think many people actually realize that. He seems to genuinely believe that everyone has natural rights, some of which must be given up for government. At the same time, he seems to believe in less government at all fronts which shows his minarchist colors. There is no proof of this. In fact, if you listen to is rhetoric, particularly his post campaign rhetoric, it's hard to distinguish him from many other libertarians. He's avoided talking policy, about political change, and seems to be speaking much more philosophically. To some people, if you're not a flaming anarchist, then you're a statist. At 72, I think Paul has learned how to be soft spoken and selective about his beliefs.
Ron Paul is smart enough to realise that trying to sell anarcho-capitalism is epically retarded = when the public doesn't even know what the Bill of Rights are.
This is the way I see it: If you have a bunch of clueless students, who have no real understanding of the world around them. Eg. in a maths class: Would you first teach a kid to COUNT to 10, or do you go straight to Quantum Physics? Well... I propose Ron Paul is teaching the American people to Count to 10. That is his fundamental goal and purpose... he is the beacon, that draws people in. All those who want to know the truth, who want liberty and real freedom. He inevitably funnels them into the Austrian School - where you eventually learn Quantum Physics...
He's smart enough to use the Constitution as his sound bite & default position, it's awesome rhetorically when you have very little time to make a point.
Speech by US Congressman Ron Paul at the "Prague Spring Lecture", Czech Republic, 29 May 2006 Ron Paul is hosted by President Klaus in Prague (part 2) Theme: "Ludwig von Mises and Politics". Ron Paul is hosted by Czech President Vaclav Klaus. 6min45secs - 9min01secs. Outlines this.
Furthermore, Jeffery Tucker makes the point in "Washington Warp: Why Even Good People in the Beltway Can't Think Straight" - 25min in.
"DC culture has the effect of turning people into secret anarchists or secret totalitarians." Which one do you think Ron Paul is?
Also, he was friends with Rothbard and has been in the Austrian school for 30 years. LOL, how could he not be a closet Ancap?
Coming out and admitting it would be the most stupid thing he could ever possibly do, whilst he is still in office, or if he plans to run in 2012. Talk about alienating your base!
And if there are those that don't think he will run. What's he going to do? Sit on the couch and watch the debates whilst the country burns? He first got into politics because of price controls with Nixon. And now - he's started a revolution and he's just going to sit out, when it's just getting started? Haha
Basically, a whole side point - besides trying to win power. (Unlikely) is that it is about spreading the message. It's not a political campaign, it's an advertising campaign for Liberty. And really... you've got to be a total wank to think Ron Paul should come out and say we should sell the White House.
Great post Conza :D
GilesStratton:Racism is a natural and rational part of the human condition. Even those that denounce it probably only come into contact with blacks when they're looking to buy some drugs.
Clearly you don't live in the real world.
"The power of liberty going forward is in decentralization. Not in leaders, but in decentralized activism. In a market process." -- liberty student
ladyattis: GilesStratton:Racism is a natural and rational part of the human condition. Even those that denounce it probably only come into contact with blacks when they're looking to buy some drugs. Clearly you don't live in the real world.
Giles only buys drugs from white people.
In all seriousness, people do tend do stick around with people who are similar to themselves, and have an innate distrust of people who are "outsiders" or "foreigners". This is true even if the outsiders are of the same skin colour.
Irish Liberty Forum
Torsten: krazy kaju:If you're not an anarchist you're a statist. What about tribalists, feudalists etc. ? I do not think one should limit the definitions to their positioning in current Western Thinking. There were political philosophies, before the rise of the modern state. And there is a variety of them. Similar issues would apply to terms like "collectivism" and the like.
They all support some version of the state, making them statists.
If Ron Paul were a racist (he is not) I would listen more seriously to his viewpoint on the subject then that of the white washed politically correct multicutluralist nonsense put forth by the liberal elite. If Ron Paul and the totality of the modern political and civil arena come into conflict my gut instinct will always be to support Ron Paul and his position.
... just as the State has no money of its own, so it has no power of its own - Albert Jay Nock
This is Ron Paul addressing the original poster's question:
LOL,
"Racism" is kind of self-preservationist. I think we should do some serious research into the evolution of that terms.
krazy kaju: Torsten: krazy kaju:If you're not an anarchist you're a statist. What about tribalists, feudalists etc. ? I do not think one should limit the definitions to their positioning in current Western Thinking. There were political philosophies, before the rise of the modern state. And there is a variety of them. Similar issues would apply to terms like "collectivism" and the like. They all support some version of the state, making them statists.
Congratulations for winning the argument by setting the definitions in a way that suits your needs and supports your ends.
Frankly his arguments in the video that libertarianism is inherently anti-racist are flawed. You probably would see a certain amount of self-segregation in a society where you don't have a government forcibly making people live together, making businesses allow people into their businesses etc.. Having a system where rights are based upon the individual does not stop people from making blanket judgments with regards to groups, as unfortunate as that might be. I just wish that it would not be political suicide for someone to point out the gross violations of property rights and the freedom of association that come from forced integration, or forced segregation for that matter. Unfortunately stating the obvious would kill his political career.
BTW: Don't think he's a closet an-cap. If he truly believed the state is just evil then how would he justify his participation in the system? To be honest my opinion of him would lower if he turned out to be a closet an-cap.