I thought I'd make this thread to post stories of police aggression. I thought it would be nice to have news stories and other sources relating to the subject in one thread. Feel free to discuss as well!
Time to start it off:
Online threat — but SWAT team raids wrong house
Police: 'Threat matrix' dictated SWAT team response at Powell Avenue home
Are you cookin in here? I smell bacon.
Cop abuse Video.
cato.org/raidmap
Posted this in the low content thread, but I wanted a link here too.
Something from last year:
Wow, and after the guy in the green shirt helps the cop load the man into the vehicle, the cop threatens the guy who helped him.
Classy.
I'm not sure if this would be brutality or aggression, but
I was walking with my friend to the library, and outside we were sitting on a concrete bench. There were hardly any people walking around, maybe 1 or 2.
So then he shows me an airsoft gun, and its alll chill. We start firing onto the grass to see how it worked. We fired off into the distance, but someone saw, and called the police. We didnt know that they callled since they were far away. BTW, the gun was clear in color, with a visible orange tip., anyone could tell from the distance it was a fake gun (of course it would make sense if the gun was painted black without the orange tip. Also the gun made little noise at all (maybe just a small pop when you pop a baloon)).
5 minutes later, 3 or 4 police cars came with a swat truck. The officers got out of the car and pointed (real) guns at us telling us to drop the gun and lay down on the floor. They slowly approached us with their guns drawn and pointed at us. We told them it was just a bb gun but they told us to shutup.
And then, they patted us down, etc, called our parents. We did not go to jail.
Lucky that we didnt go to jail, but i think that guns drawn with swat like that is a bit too apeshitty, dont you think?
“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence.""The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”
http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.org
kelvin_silva:Lucky that we didnt go to jail, but i think that guns drawn with swat like that is a bit too apeshitty, dont you think?
Airsoft guns do not exactly look like toys. It's pretty expected that cops would be called when two kids are aiming and firing such a weapon in a public area. And I'd say SWAT truck and guns drawn is pretty expected in that situation too.
Like you said, it was someone from far away who called. And you have no idea how that call went. I don't think I would expect even a private defense agency to show up any less cautious. For all you know they were under the impression they were going to a scene in which two teenage boys with automatic weapons were holding people hostage at the public library.
And I hate to say this, but you should have known better.
John James:Airsoft guns do not exactly look like toys. It's pretty expected that cops would be called when two kids are aiming and firing such a weapon in a public area. And I'd say SWAT truck and guns drawn is pretty expected in that situation too. Like you said, it was someone from far away who called. And you have no idea how that call went. I don't think I would expect even a private defense agency to show up any less cautious. For all you know they were under the impression they were going to a scene in which two teenage boys with automatic weapons were holding people hostage at the public library. And I hate to say this, but you should have known better.
I'm not sure whether I agree with any/all of that.
The keyboard is mightier than the gun.
Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem.
Voluntaryism Forum
Autolykos:I'm not sure whether I agree with any/all of that.
Um. K.
That's right.
What's right?
Couple, 54 and 55, arrested and spent 23 hours in jail for DANCING at train platform
http://flexyourrights.org
I forgot about this thread. This was posted in the low content a few days ago [it was taken down from youtube due to a "copyright claim from CBS", which probably means one of the pigs or someone defend them when on and made a couple claims using the name CBS]. Here's a couple of backup links in case the one below disappears too [1] [2]
As for the "flex your rights" thing, here's a playlist:
Interacting with Law Enforcement
John James: kelvin_silva:Lucky that we didnt go to jail, but i think that guns drawn with swat like that is a bit too apeshitty, dont you think? Airsoft guns do not exactly look like toys. It's pretty expected that cops would be called when two kids are aiming and firing such a weapon in a public area. And I'd say SWAT truck and guns drawn is pretty expected in that situation too. Like you said, it was someone from far away who called. And you have no idea how that call went. I don't think I would expect even a private defense agency to show up any less cautious. For all you know they were under the impression they were going to a scene in which two teenage boys with automatic weapons were holding people hostage at the public library. And I hate to say this, but you should have known better.
I don't agree. You have a right to carry assault weapons around town. There are of course some places that don't, but you are more likely allowed to open carry a rifle then open carry/conceal carry a pistol. With that being said clear air soft guns look as real as nerf guns. There is no way anyone from any distance would suggest a clear plastic gun could. Be a real one. I agree there are Realistic ones, but not the clear ones. My guess the call said exactly what happened, couple of kids are firing air soft guns around the public library. The cops wanted to have fun and scare a couple kids. I was in the Marine Corps and we didnt do stuff like that in a war zone. A private security force wouldn't of done it either. Let's just say a swat company arrived, why would they pull out and point their weapons? Do they have any evidence of real rifles being fired? They would of proceeded cautiously, but they wouldn't be allowed to pull out their firearms without an eminent danger. Where was the danger? Weapon safety rule NUMBER 2 "never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot". With that rule/policy they proved they intended to shoot them if they would of done anything.
Lastly let's assume the kids actually had real assault rifles, but not firing them. Do you really think this would of turned out differently? In fact it would be more likely those kids would of been shot and killed. So by your logic, anyone bearing arms is a threat and should be treated as a criminal in the middle of committing a violent act. I'd hate to live in your free society.
grant.w.underwood: John James: Airsoft guns do not exactly look like toys. It's pretty expected that cops would be called when two kids are aiming and firing such a weapon in a public area. And I'd say SWAT truck and guns drawn is pretty expected in that situation too. Like you said, it was someone from far away who called. And you have no idea how that call went. I don't think I would expect even a private defense agency to show up any less cautious. For all you know they were under the impression they were going to a scene in which two teenage boys with automatic weapons were holding people hostage at the public library. And I hate to say this, but you should have known better. I don't agree. You have a right to carry assault weapons around town.
John James: Airsoft guns do not exactly look like toys. It's pretty expected that cops would be called when two kids are aiming and firing such a weapon in a public area. And I'd say SWAT truck and guns drawn is pretty expected in that situation too. Like you said, it was someone from far away who called. And you have no idea how that call went. I don't think I would expect even a private defense agency to show up any less cautious. For all you know they were under the impression they were going to a scene in which two teenage boys with automatic weapons were holding people hostage at the public library. And I hate to say this, but you should have known better.
I don't agree. You have a right to carry assault weapons around town.
You also have a right to shoot up heroin, that doesn't mean it's the best idea to be doing it in plain view of the public. I don't see your point.
There are of course some places that don't, but you are more likely allowed to open carry a rifle then open carry/conceal carry a pistol.
Oh so now we're switching from "rights" to what's legal. Evidently you have no clue about gun laws and how they vary from state to state...let alone how they apply to minors.
Please show me the statute (for any state) which allows a minor to open carry an assault weapon and/or rifle anywhere.
grant.w.underwood:With that being said clear air soft guns look as real as nerf guns. There is no way anyone from any distance would suggest a clear plastic gun could. Be a real one. I agree there are Realistic ones, but not the clear ones.
I guess that'll teach me to respond without quoting the full post. I don't recall any of that information being in that post when I wrote mine. Kelvin must have edited his post after the fact.
My guess the call said exactly what happened, couple of kids are firing air soft guns around the public library. The cops wanted to have fun and scare a couple kids.
And you're basing this on what, exactly? You really think it's that unlikely that a random idiot from "far away" didn't see kids aiming a gun and assume it's real? The culture of fear has ingrained it in the head of every average dumbass that everything is a threat. The media and the State leap on things like Columbine, VA Tech, and the Batman shooting and remind everyone that they are at risk from young hoodlums with guns at every single second of the day. And hey, "if you see something, say something", right?
My whole point is that you have no clue what information was given on that call, and I think it's pretty naive to assume your average random jackass who would put in a 911 is going to be cognizant enough to realize they're actually making an emergency call about two teenagers playing with a toy gun. I mean, after all, this is a person making an emergency call about two teenagers playing with a toy gun.
I was in the Marine Corps and we didnt do stuff like that in a war zone.
Were you in a war zone?
Let's just say a swat company arrived, why would they pull out and point their weapons? Do they have any evidence of real rifles being fired?
Again, you have no idea what the idiot jackass said on the phone. For all you know it was a hysterical sheep crying about the next Columbine.
They would of proceeded cautiously, but they wouldn't be allowed to pull out their firearms without an eminent danger.
"would of"? Do you mean "would have"?
"allowed"?
grant.w.underwood:Weapon safety rule NUMBER 2 "never point your weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot".
Really. So you're literally saying every single time a weapon gets aimed, it must be fired. Sounds more like "weapon danger" rule to me.
With that rule/policy they proved they intended to shoot them if they would of done anything.
Wait a minute. What's this "if" stuff? You just told me you're not suppose to point at anything you don't intend to shoot. Now you're telling me there's qualifiers? So one could point a weapon at something they didn't necessarily intend to shoot?
And what is with this "would of" stuff?
Lastly let's assume the kids actually had real assault rifles, but not firing them. Do you really think this would of turned out differently? In fact it would be more likely those kids would of been shot and killed.
Probably. Which is why they were lucky.
So by your logic, anyone bearing arms is a threat and should be treated as a criminal in the middle of committing a violent act.
Can you say "non sequitur?"
You guys will love this one.
@gotlucky: There is no word I know to describe how infuriating that news article is.
Clayton -
http://www.hrw.org/news/2005/08/30/papua-new-guinea-epidemic-police-brutality-against-children
Your 'Duty' To Protect and Serve the Police
For those who are interested, William Norman Grigg regularly writes about police abuse.
I read every article Will Grigg writes for LRC with gusto, even though they invariably raise my blood pressure. I recommend him to everyone.
Brutal LAPD arrest caught on video; Department investigating cops seen bodyslamming nurse twice during cell phone traffic stop (VIDEO)
Enjoy?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqS2vzdUzKw
I agree with John James, that incident was me being stupid, we dont know what the guy said, police probably thought it was more than it really was, etc,etc. Its the past, lets not argue over this bullshit.
Watch 1:12 -Kick on throat/chest
2:00 - 2:15 - Slam on police car.
This will make you mad.
Poor guy. If i was there i would have done something. Its hard to do something about this since police carries weapon.
If ever William Grigg could get your blood boiling, this one will do it!
The woman gets punched in the face by a police officer. If you watch closely, you see that someone else tosses water on the cops, but they are claiming that this woman used silly string to assault them or somesuch. We don't see that in the video, but even if that were true, this was a disgusting and despicable act by that thug in a uniform.
Here is the youtube video of the incident.
EDIT: If you watch really closely, you do in fact actually see her shoot silly string or something at the very very beginning. However, what that officer did was disgusting.
Update to the above post:
His fellow police officers think firing him was overkill, but if you or I punched someone in the face for shooting silly string or throwing water, we'd be charged with assault and probably sued.
Police Fatally Shoot an Unarmed Driver on the Grand Central Parkway
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/05/nyregion/police-stop-and-fatally-shoot-unarmed-driver-on-a-parkway-in-queens.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&hp&
P.S. - How can I make a link clickable and show up as text (ie make the words "Police Fatally Shoot..." appear so when clicked takes the user to the address)? I'm specifically wondering what text/syntax to input to do this.
The only one worth following is the one who leads... not the one who pulls; for it is not the direction that condemns the puller, it is the rope that he holds.
Wow, that's just sad. EDIT: What's really funny about that article is how the author lists a bunch of other police shootings and states the various ways that those were justifiable. Nothing like adding in damage control to a news report about an atrocity.
About the link, if you look closely at the buttons in the reply box, there is a world with a chain link on it in the second row of buttons, right below the spell check and to the right of the paragrah button. Type the text you want, select it, click the button, then paste the link. That should do the trick.
If any of you suffer from low blood pressure, this column by William Norman Grigg will turn that right around:
The Death of a Slave-Catcher
Man tasered by police for trying to save his own house from burning down
Good Samaritan treated like thief by cops, he says, sues for $1 million
This idea that a police officer can order anyone to do anything has got to stop. Traditionally, an individual standing on his own property has the right to do anything the hell he pleases so long as he is not in the process of committing a crime - that includes pointing a gun at himself, running into a fire, or whatever.
And the "that's what insurance is for" remark is a perfect illustration of how, to a disinterested observer, the house is merely its dollar-value. But to the owner, there are a lot of irreplaceables in his home - keepsakes from his childhood, family photos, unbacked data stored on hard drives (which nowadays includes a lot of family photos). I would be devastated if I lost all the little hand-written notes, pictures and cards I've received from my kids. While it is technically true that tehse things are not "priceless", people are willing to risk their safety to preserve them... they place a very high value on them. Which is where the complete absence of any understanding of the subjective theory of value comes in.
And what is the crime in turning in valuables from an unattended bag in a park? He's "no innocent"? Is that what we've come to, now, Inquisitorial prognistications on the contents of someone's conscience by unqualified baboons?
I pretty much avoid the news now, it's withering.
But Clayton! They're entrusted to preserve "public safety"! That guy could've burned to death if he'd been allowed to run into that burning house! He would've lost his life, but the government would've lost an otherwise productive taxpayer, and that's the important thing!
Yeah, Clayton, where are your priorities?
Someday these cops are going to tase the wrong guy.
Holy fucking hell. Police abuse with tasers.
Dr. Magliato strongly disagreed with TASER International’s findings. “Absolutely not, absolutely not,” Magliato said. “We have an article right here from circulation which comes out of one of the most prestigious cardiovascular journals in the country, that’s put out by the American Heart Association. This article discusses eight cases, eight cases where people were TASERed went into this ventricular fibrillation rhythm, seven of which died, so how can you tell me that using a TASER is completely benign — especially when you have it on videotape?”
Dr. Magliato strongly disagreed with TASER International’s findings.
“Absolutely not, absolutely not,” Magliato said. “We have an article right here from circulation which comes out of one of the most prestigious cardiovascular journals in the country, that’s put out by the American Heart Association. This article discusses eight cases, eight cases where people were TASERed went into this ventricular fibrillation rhythm, seven of which died, so how can you tell me that using a TASER is completely benign — especially when you have it on videotape?”
TASER International also provided a written statement: “We are concerned about this incident and eagerly await more information as its becomes available since it’s speculative if not impossible to make a medical diagnosis from a YouTube video in which we can’t see what exactly occurred or know the condition of the suspect during the medical response. “No use of force is risk free, but medical experts have concluded that TASER technology is among the most effective response to resistance tools available today. A U.S DOJ’s five-year study further states, ‘There is no conclusive medical evidence in the current body of research literature that indicates a high risk of serious injury or death to humans from the direct or indirect cardiovascular or metabolic effects of short-term (TASER) CED exposure in healthy, normal, nonstressed, nonintoxicated persons. “It’s important to remember that more than 98,000 people have been saved from potential death or serious injury using TASER devices – an astounding number that would more than sell out the Rose Bowl.”
“We are concerned about this incident and eagerly await more information as its becomes available since it’s speculative if not impossible to make a medical diagnosis from a YouTube video in which we can’t see what exactly occurred or know the condition of the suspect during the medical response.
“No use of force is risk free, but medical experts have concluded that TASER technology is among the most effective response to resistance tools available today. A U.S DOJ’s five-year study further states, ‘There is no conclusive medical evidence in the current body of research literature that indicates a high risk of serious injury or death to humans from the direct or indirect cardiovascular or metabolic effects of short-term (TASER) CED exposure in healthy, normal, nonstressed, nonintoxicated persons.
“It’s important to remember that more than 98,000 people have been saved from potential death or serious injury using TASER devices – an astounding number that would more than sell out the Rose Bowl.”
The lobotomized level at which discussion of the risks of TASER use is prosecuted never ceases to amaze me. I've taken Judo and one of the primary goals of Judo when used in self-defense is to use the force of gravity in combination with the ground surface to do as much damage to your attacker as possible. In other words, the takedown (throw) is a major component of creating trauma in the individual which often causes a "stunning" effect which can then be exploited to conclude the fight favorably. The Florida Highway Patrol tasered this 20-year old girl and her collapse onto the ground caused massive blunt traum to her head as it hit the pavement - she is now brain-dead. This illustrates the massive and neglected risk of trauma created by the effect of TASER.
The effects of high voltage shock are difficult to describe verbally. I lived on a farm as a kid where we had a high-voltage electric fence - a mere 10,000 volts compared to the 50,000 administered by TASER. The primary effects are burning of the skin at the point of shock caused by the high-voltage arc, pain that distributes throughout the entire nervous system (the pain is not localized anywhere, it is felt everywhere simultaneously, including inside the head), and msucle spasm or "lock-up". The first two effects are merely degrading and inhumane (torturous). The last effect is what is dangerous. The TASER is nothing more than a cattle prod in the shape of a pistol.
The muscle spasm induced by high-voltage shock will, of course, cause an erect individual to the ground without the possibility of breaking or correcting the fall in any way so as to minimize trauma to sensitive areas such as the knees, elbows, shoulders, tailbone, chest, back and head. But in addition to this risk, the TASER can also cause trauma even to an individual who is already on the ground as the muscles spasm in response to the electrical shock, causing body parts (including the head) to slam into a brick wall or curb or the inside of a closed, patrol car door.
The TASER manufacturer promotes its product on the assumption that every use of a TASER is a substitution for a supposedly "worse" alternative (from the victim's perspective), such as a night-stick, manual combat or firearm. I don't have any numbers, but this is doubtless false. The fact is that officers are far more willing to deploy a TASER for "non-compliance" than to get up-close and personal where they are likely to experience resistance from the victim of their attack. The TASER encapsulates the cowardice of the firearm without the virtually-guaranteed lethality of the firearm. It is the worst of all worlds.
In combination with the "qualified immunity" of police officers and the notorious difficulty of holding police officers individually accountable for abuses, it is my view that TASERs should simply be banned for use by public police departments. Only individuals subject to ordinary liability for assault (such as security officers or private citizens) should be permitted to carry this dangerous weapon - though I doubt there will exactly be a rush to purchase them precisely because they are so dangerous.