I thought it would be appropriate to make a new thread on the topic to discuss things without ruining it for those who haven't seen it yet.
I liked the movie but I didn't think it was great. In my opinion, Nolan does a good job with the villains and the overall story, but as a fan of the comics and cartoons, he really goes on his own path that honestly doesn't relate much to other interpretations. It bothers me that Batman is never really feared by anyone in these films and that he is constantly showing up at times during the day that aren't night or dark. You also almost never see him work as a detective. Nolan took the Batman universe and rewrote the whole thing. I know some people are a fan of what he did and I will admit that I thought he did a nice job with a lot of it, but I'm just really eager for the next person to make a Batman movie and keep it a little bit more closer to how Batman has usually been shown up until this point.
Tom Hardy did a really good job playing Bane though. He was a complete bad ass. The first fight scene was really awesome to watch and I do have to give Nolan credit, he is the only person to write Bane into a new Batman story and have him break the bat since Bane first did it in Knightfall.
I wonder how it will do at the box office, considering what just happened.
From a criticism point of view:
Pro
Con
I'll write about some of the interesting themes in the movie later.
I actually loved Talia. It bothered me that Bane was the son of Ra's as Ghul, so when Talia showed up it was beautiful. It's a shame that a reboot is already being planned. I would have loved if Talia had gotten pregnant with Damian. A fourth movie dealing with Damian could have been done well I think. I agree though that the twist came very late in the film.
Also, how the heck would Bane be able to eat food if he can't take off that mask????
Intravenous therapy?
To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process. Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!" Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."
Haha!! Man, that would be rough. I mean, look at the dude; his calorie intake has to be at least 7,000 per day!!!
Batman definitely should have died at the end and I feel like Bane fell off as the movie progressed. The first scene was intense, and from that point on, Bane became less and less menacing. I think there should have been a scene where Bane crushes a mans head with his bare hands. Something of that nature.
The movie was pretty good, though the last one was much better.
"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."
Talia definitely took away from Bane. Even for a movie that was 2:45:00, there were too many characters for character development.
Bruce Wayne's escape from the prison was rushed; the was no sense to the viewer that Wayne transitioned from fearless of dying to fearful.
Selina Kyle's hardly developed.
Talia should have been cut out. I like the twist in which she is revealed to be Ra's daughter and that Bane was her protector. But it was obvious that she behind the plot to become into control of the reactor.
Oh, and we also had to follow the character played by the guy from Third Rock From the Sun, who will be Robin, whose character development we must now sit through in the next Dark Knight movie, and most likely to the detriment of the character development of the other characters.
Actually, Talia could have stayed as long as Robin had been cut out.
Poor ethos development in this movie. If Batman didn't fight for 8 years, why did he allow himself to atrophe? Why exactly did Bane need the mask, and how the hell did it make him strong enough to bust concrete blocks and move super fast when the syrum was merely to ventilate oxygen? Why would R'as Al Ghul kick him out of the League of Shadows simply for loving his daughter? If Batman's vertebrae was out, all it took to fix it was a half-assed chiropractic visit, some rope and some chanting Mexicans? Why would Bane plan on getting caught at the beginning of the movie anyway if he could have just gone straight to Gotham?
At some point, you need to tell yourself, "this is a movie based on a comic book series." I mean, some of his gadgets don't obey the laws of physics... but they're cool.
But, to answer some "thetabularasa's" questions,
If Batman didn't fight for 8 years, why did he allow himself to atrophe?
That was the whole point of the "I'm sulking in my own pain" part of the storyline.
Why exactly did Bane need the mask, and how the hell did it make him strong enough to bust concrete blocks and move super fast when the syrum was merely to ventilate oxygen? Why would R'as Al Ghul kick him out of the League of Shadows simply for loving his daughter?
I'm guessing Bane was trained by the League of Shadows for some amount of time (I don't know the comic book very well). I don't remember anything in the movie suggesting his strength originates from his mask. And Ra's al Ghul kicks him out not just because he "loved his daughter," but because Bane represented the pain of Ra's al Ghul's imprisoned lover and manifested nothing but a feeling of hate (I thought the movie was pretty explicit on this point).
Why would Bane plan on getting caught at the beginning of the movie anyway if he could have just gone straight to Gotham?
Err, you mean the part when he hijacks the only nuclear physicist who knows how to activate that neutron bomb?
I mean, the movie does have its storyline holes... but c'mon!
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Unrelated, here are my thoughts on the movie as far as politics go. The movie is not as pro-capitalist as some people would like to assume.
I see they added som twist to the movie....
I found it very enjoyable, all in all. Bane stole the show (as the Joker did last time) and I found it silly that he was killed off so inconsequentially. Perhaps they felt that with the big twist he was now unimportant, which makes me think they should have revealed the twist at the very end, when the core was being sent to the facility under the river. And that French revolution part was priceless!
All in all, for a movie that blatantly blasts off it conservative ideology (still much better than average Hollywood leftisms), I found it generally enjoyable and a good way to end a spectacular series.
PS: I still find the Iron Man a better modern iteration of what Batman was supposed to be back then, though.
@Neo:
That's almost exactly how I felt. Though I didn't hate Talia all that much - I just don't think she should have written out Bane, who was being built up so nicely.
Overall worst of the three, but still a great movie. It was probably the most "comic bookish" one of the three
"As in a kaleidoscope, the constellation of forces operating in the system as a whole is ever changing." - Ludwig Lachmann
"When A Man Dies A World Goes Out of Existence" - GLS Shackle
@vive
Definitely the most comic bookish of the three. Totally absurd movie. I loved it though. Michael Caine did a great job in it too. So many great actors in these movies, but damn, Caine is wonderful.
Totally, Michael Caine is the man. He's one of my fav actors.
But that was another one of those mild criticisms I had with the movie:
I really thinkt the series is very strongly driven by the supporting cast of Freeman, Caine, and Oldman. While it did a perfect job with Oldman, I felt Freeman and especially Caine were underwritten and Joseph Gordon's character took up too much time, and was simply not needed.
Yeah, absolutely. Gordon-Levitt is a great actor imho, but it's almost a crime to neglect those other three in favor of him. They've littered these movies with great actors other than Christian Bale (1st movie had Wilkinson and Neeson, and the 2nd had Ledger). But they used them really well in those movies. Too be honest, if they had made some of those huge battles a little shorter or just not a huge war, they probably could have a little more screen time for Freeman, Caine, and Oldman.