I want to know if anyone frequents any good forums in the tradition of marxism that would be the equivalent of the Mises forum. I would like to start posting "behind enemy lines" and brush up my debate skills. Don't get me wrong, I love you guys, but I think it would be interesting to start debating tue marxists, instead of hearing about debates with them second hand here in the Mises forum.
I did a quick web-search but nothing much came up. Where do you guys go when you're looking for trouble?
"If men are not angels, then who shall run the state?"
"equivalent of the Mises forum" - Ha. You can go to RevLeft for some lulzy debates, but it's pretty pathetic and frustrating at the same time. One of the mods here was banned and labeled "Misean" from their forum.
"
"equivalent of the Mises forum" - Ha. You can go to RevLeft for some lulzy debates, but it's pretty pathetic and frustrating at the same time. One of the mods here was banned and labeled "Misean" from their forum."
I tried making a post there. I think it got denied because posts are moderated. But its ridiculous what people will say. :)
Schools are labour camps.
You could try debating at the Forums of the Libertarian Left. I'm not sure they're very much Marxist, but they are our "cousins on the left". Also, they are most likely to respond in snarky yet ambiguous one-liners. In my experience. I tried! I did! They didn't help me.
Well, you know what they say, spending time on leftrev is only as bad as snorting chlorophyll lined with rat poison.
After recommendation on multiple occasions by one of our more determined trolls, one of our members here ventured over to ArsTechnica and invited a few other folks along.
This is the closest I've seen to what you're looking for, but obviously they're dumb enough to buy into a lot of fallacies, so you will get plenty of posts severely lacking in even basic logic. But for the most part it seems as though they're able to string sentences and don't immediately feel the need to resort to insults and ad hominem.
However, be warned. It's probable you'll get more responses than you bargained for, and keeping up with threads may become a problem.
Give us some followup reports. I'll be interested to hear how it goes.
Now, before I talk about some other places, one of the things I like about this forum is how lenient the mods are to opposing viewpoints and only seem to ban the most obnoxious of trolls and even then they have to get like sociopathic-level annoying to warrant a ban. '
Even the "vehicle name[insert numbers here]" dude that's made like his fifth alt; yeah he's kind of a trolly troll but it's always useful in my opinion to read what he types up. Users like that are useful to this forum and I'd rather keep them around then censor them.
Most forums flip the fuck out and go all Kristallnacht martial law on people, essentially doing the internet version of stringing them up in the town square with their heads impaled on sticks.
So yeah, other places...
eh, it's less about the forum and more about the individual person you come across that would be willing to debate you imho
"it's less about the forum and more about the individual person you come across that would be willing to debate you imho"
But somehow the annoying, stupid, and argumentative ones always find you...
You probably can't find any because Marxism is dead.
Which is why I am always suprised to see articles promoted on mises.org attacking it. Hardly seems worth the effort of even mentioning.
Ambition is a dream with a V8 engine - Elvis Presley
The forums at libcom are decent. They also have a great library of Marxist and anarchist texts.
only seem to ban the most obnoxious of trolls and even then they have to get like sociopathic-level annoying to warrant a ban. '
Tell that to Smiling Dave.
Where do you guys go when you're looking for trouble?
I debate with the Progressive's on another board that isn't politically related. I'd suggest that. That way you get to debate, you don't get banned and you can chat about other stuff.
BransonBow:I debate with the Progressive's on another board that isn't politically related. I'd suggest that.
Could you suggest a specific board that you like to go to?
The bad neighborhoods in town -_-
Ironic how FOTH posts right after an assertion that Marxism is dead.
Not to mention that our president is a Marxist.
Idk about Obama's personal beliefs, but most economists do not bother with Marxism. When confronted about something related to the Occupy movements they might say "we need more regulations" and just move on.
"It's well and alive at most American universities,"
I think that if Student is saying that it's dead then he's going to have a very different opinion about this too.
I go to rapisalive.com. Every once in awhile debates pop up, the last one being on abortion then got derailed to global warming. If you go there to just debate you may just get labeled as a troll and banned. I would sugget going somewhere that caters to your interests. Most boards have a lounge area to shoot the shit. If you do that you can debate and discuss other things that interest you.
"It's well and alive at most American universities," I think that if Student is saying that it's dead then he's going to have a very differing opinion about this too.
I think that if Student is saying that it's dead then he's going to have a very differing opinion about this too.
While its economics have been refuted, it's just reestablished itself in all other areas of discourse, especially cultural disciplines where every study has some form of Marxoid flavor. The underlying desire has not gone away; they've only been rationalized and repackaged in 'new' avenues for its apologists.
For debates: I think Marxism can be ignored, and it goes away.
Anything after that and your heading for a Quixotic / Pyrrhic styled fighting against a few poorly read hipsters, dirty hippies, and subsidized groovy sociologists / fringe psychologists and philosophers. I don't think a victory can come out of such things.
I highly doubt anyone worth considering takes it all too serious. Time is probably best spent considering more interseting and relevant economcs, sociology, etc
"As in a kaleidoscope, the constellation of forces operating in the system as a whole is ever changing." - Ludwig Lachmann
"When A Man Dies A World Goes Out of Existence" - GLS Shackle
i always hear how the ghost of marxism is haunting academia, but i never see much evidence presented. i can only speak from personal experience and i have yet to meet a marxist professor even though i've taken classes in supposedly "marxist-friendly" subjects like sociology.
but the number of marxist professors really shouldn't be your metric anyways. the real question is whether marxism is a living intellectual movement--are marxist thinkers generating new works and ideas that are being acknowledged and debated by the intellectual public? so here are some better metrics.
how many living marxist intellectuals can you name without googling? how widely is their work being discussed? if you mentioned one of these intellectuals to a fellow student or even your econ professor, would they have any clue who you are talking about? could they summarize that person's intellectual contributions in a meaningful way?
Interesting:
I actually had a self proclaimed Marxist sociologist in Soc 101 at the University of Toledo - he made us sit in a circle. I also think I remember in a lit class covering "Marxist interpretations", among other intrepretations.
My friend who is going for his doctrate in philosophy at U of Chicago introduced me to one of his friends doing the same thing who said he was "sympathetic to a kind of Marxism".
But yeah, after that I was never under the impression that all too many people actually cared about it.
EDIT
The chairman of my economics department was a Neo-Marxist/Ricardian who also teaches in France and advised the CCP and Lula de Silva (former president of Brasil).
"If we wish to preserve a free society, it is essential that we recognize that the desirability of a particular object is not sufficient justification for the use of coercion."
Student:i always hear how the ghost of marxism is haunting academia, but i never see much evidence presented.
Let me guess. "Socialism" doesn't count, right?
Why not just debate here? I am keen to see what arguments will be presented against my defense of the labor theory of value. The theory about markets and trade by the Austrians is absolutely ridiculous and has been refuted by Marx even before the first Austrian was born. Nevertheless, we hear the same old refuted nonsense rehashed by generations of Austrians over the centuries.
awww shiet. Preparing the pocorn atm
the marxist theory that if a marxist dictator kills millions of people, there will be utopia. untill millions of people die, there will be exploitation.
Marxism is not dead, just in more elusive forms, but I wouldn't say that one should find a "Marxist forum" but a left-anarchist/left-libertarian/mutualist group somewhere with a lot of regulars. Sometimes you can find a group of mutualists that have read Austrian and an-cap material and are readily prepared to dissect it.
"The theory about markets and trade by the Austrians is absolutely ridiculous and has been refuted by Marx even before the first Austrian was born. Nevertheless, we hear the same old refuted nonsense rehashed by generations of Austrians over the centuries."
That's quite a hefty accusation.
Adn could you point us to "your defense" of the LTV?
John Johnson,
0_o
The survey results Klein presents is about whether U.S. academics register Democrat, describe themselves as liberal, and support specific government interventions.
@Student, Marxism is not dead.
@OP, why do you want to debate Marxism? What do you know of it?
'Men do not change, they unmask themselves' - Germaine de Stael
The libcom forums seem good, but the forums at urban75.net look more active from a quick glance (it's not explicitly 'marxist' but is rather left-leaning). Both seem to have a higher standard of poster than most places (apart from you lovely people here, of course).
"The survey results Klein presents is about whether U.S. academics register Democrat, describe themselves as liberal, and support specific government interventions."
Daamn, sociologists are all a bunch of commies :P
Student: John Johnson, 0_o The survey results Klein presents is about whether U.S. academics register Democrat, describe themselves as liberal, and support specific government interventions.
I'm not sure who John Johnson is, but I'm curious what exactly it is that you think would be different about the overall positions advanced by these faculty members and people who self-identify as "socialist" or "Marxist"...especially those in typical Internet forums.
Marxists typically support left-of-center political positions.
Many academics support left-of-center political positions.
Therefore, many academics are Marxists?
Nice.
PS* Since we have been talking about Marxism in the university, I thought we were talking about Marxism as an engine for social analysis, not as a political movement or philosophy. Which I think makes the survey results Klein discusses even less relevant for this conversation.
Student: Marxists typically support left-of-center political positions. Many academics support left-of-center political positions. Therefore, many academics are Marxists?
I'm sorry, I guess the font was too small for this part, but what exactly it is that you think would be different about the overall positions advanced by these faculty members and people who self-identify as "socialist" or "Marxist"...especially those in typical Internet forums, again?
And who is John Johnson, by the way?
lol.
Repeating the question doesn't mean it makes more sense. Let me help.
Are you trying to show that academics typically lean-left politically (a claim I would not disagree with) or are you trying to show that political Marxism is alive and well in the unviersity? Because Klein's survey results support the first claim but not the second.
First look at the data that was collected for academics in all fields. They report self-identified political affiliation and voter registration. Now can Marxists identify as "liberal" and vote Democrat? Sure. But so can non-Marxists. Similarly, Marxists could refuse to identify as liberal (the 2 Marxist students I met as an undergrad hated the term liberal and identified as "radical" whatever that meant) and hate Democrats (both Marxists voted Green). We learn NOTHING here.
The data collected for just economists is a little more specific but not very helpful. Could Marxists support anti-discrimination laws, gun control, safety regulations, and income redistribution? Sure I guess. But so could non-Marxists!!! So what do these results really tell us??
The MOST you can claim is that the survey results Klein presents don't neccessarily contradict your claim, but that isn't the same as supporting it. Those same survey results are just as consistant with my belief that there are very few Marxists left in Academica (especially in economics departments).
I honestly hope that clears up your confusion.
PS* I'm sorry I called you John Johnson by mistake. I guess? You asked twice so I guess it's important to you. I promise it won't happen again, Jake.
Student: lol. Repeating the question doesn't mean it makes more sense. Are you trying to show that academics typically lean-left politically (a claim I would not disagree with) or are you trying to show that political Marxism is alive and well in the unviersity? Klein's survey results support the first claim but not the second. Your question is beside the point. Can Marxists identify as "liberal" and vote Democrat? Sure. But so can non-Marxists. Similarly, Marxists could refuse to identify as liberal (the 2 Marxist students I met as an undergrad hated the term liberal and identified as "radical" whatever that meant) and hate Democrats (both Marxists voted Green). The BEST you can claim is that the survey results Klein presents don't neccessarily contradict your claim, but then again they don't actually support it either. So in the end they tell us nothing about Marxism and modern Academia.
Repeating the question doesn't mean it makes more sense. Are you trying to show that academics typically lean-left politically (a claim I would not disagree with) or are you trying to show that political Marxism is alive and well in the unviersity?
Klein's survey results support the first claim but not the second.
Your question is beside the point. Can Marxists identify as "liberal" and vote Democrat? Sure. But so can non-Marxists. Similarly, Marxists could refuse to identify as liberal (the 2 Marxist students I met as an undergrad hated the term liberal and identified as "radical" whatever that meant) and hate Democrats (both Marxists voted Green). The BEST you can claim is that the survey results Klein presents don't neccessarily contradict your claim, but then again they don't actually support it either. So in the end they tell us nothing about Marxism and modern Academia.
I'll assume this simply means you can't answer the question.
Now I'm kind of confused. I only asked you once. The first time I mentioned it I was simply pointing out the fact that I noticed it was possible your post was not directed at me, and that I was aware of that, but that I was responding anyway. Since you didn't address it in your followup, I figured I'd ask since I was curious.
If it was an honest mistake, one would think you'd say something along the lines of "oh I meant you" in your first response. But now that you make up another name again, it would seem you were typing the wrong name on purpose all along. *shrug*