Touristy video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MTVLKLze3E
Will Liechtenstein's Autonomy Prevail?
http://mises.org/daily/1214
Law Enforcement in Liechtenstein
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_Liechtenstein
Whoops! Swiss Accidentally Invade Liechtenstein
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=2921407&page=1#.UEn91pHwvAw
You forgot to add that the average person from the USA is significantly less wealthy than the average person in Liechtenstein because of regulations and the burdens placed on USA folks by the warefare/welfare state. So I seriously doubt that the folks living MUCH more free lives there would accept immigrants from such a nation of welfare bums even if these bums professed that they were pro-freedom. If I was one of them I would not want people from the USA moving in there for fear that the USA would use their influence to start up warefare/welfare programs.
What Bogart said. Still think we should try planning around the idea of "libertarian zionism," like purchasing land or seasteading.
We wouldn't have to immigrate en masse there. Rather than try and win over 150 million Americans, why not win over the 36,000 people who live in Liechtenstein? Can you imagine the world's horror if 62 square miles of Western civilization flourished under anarchy? The State would be doomed to a slow and agonising death.
That's 125 police officers governing 36,000 people in an autonomous region between two long-standing neutral countries. This opportunity only comes around once in a millenia. I highly recommend you read Freedom and Prosperity in Liechtenstein: A Hoppean Analysis. A fear of "big government" is prevalent among the populace, and even the prince himself has libertarian tendencies!
The Prince’s package of amendments contained another libertarian proposal: a guaranteed right of communes to secede from the state. Some of his critics argued that the measure would encourage division and, in any case, was not necessary because the communes had a right to secede under existing provisions. Hans-Adam II, however, wanted the right to secede explicitly stated for two reasons. First, he is a firm believer in the right of self-determination and wanted to set an example internationally. Second, in a particularly far-sighted observation, he noted that, at some point, Switzerland might join the European Union and, if it did, Liechtenstein might well follow because of the close economic and political connections between the countries. Some communes, however, may not want to join the European Union, and codifying a right to secede would guarantee them a way to opt-out. Interestingly, Hans-Adam’s initial proposals on secession were not limited to communes; he wanted to give districts and even individuals the right to secede.
A message to Hans Adam II: relinquish your power and you will be eternally enshrined as the hero of mankind.
Similar article: Anarchy in the Aachen
Couple problems: Lichtenstein could never become a mass society, it doesn't have enough territory. It's land-locked prohibiting mass commerce, no access to the sea.
With seasteading you have more available space than we could fill in a thousand years, with virtually unlimited sea access by default, and rather than being surrounded by statist regimes you have actual room to grow.
If you want libertarianism to eventually become a force in the world, as I do, then Lichtenstein is not the way to go. It's a mere crumb, even if there were no practical difficulties in moving there. Even if it were unowned land waiting to be homesteaded without existing society.
No, I think we shall have to begin with seasteading, and then the conquest of landed territories by the victory of ideas and results will come after. It's a bit of a pivot from the typical libertarian vision of convincing an entire country first, which based on history seems to be intractable.
We shall have to provoke the nations to envy first. And we can only do that with our own territory and our own land, and it must have enough room for many millions of citizens. Seasteading is the only viable way to achieve that short of colonizing other planets or space itself :P
^^^^^^^^
If we could manipulate the world, we should start with a small lab experiment called liechtenstein, then move to sea steading.
“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence.""The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”
http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.org
Well, I do like that idea too, I just like living off the coast of California better, haha :) It would be fine to have two choices after all.
I think the practical concerns of getting Lichtenstein up and running in the first place could prove difficult. Whereas, seasteading, getting the place up and running is more a material concern than a question of politics and convincing human beings as in Lichtenstein.
Plus, what do they speak there, French? No thanks :P
I'll bet I can get a society of 35,000 libertarians up and running as a seastead before you guys can convince Lichtenstein to go totally libertarian.
Anenome: I'll bet I can get a society of 35,000 libertarians up and running as a seastead before you guys can convince Lichtenstein to go totally libertarian.
I'll raise you one seastead and bet you hell freezes over before either of them happen! Of course I hope I lose that bet.
It is currently part of the EU's internal market, which "guarantees the free movement of goods, capital, services and people".
In theory. In practice I dare you bringing your money there: the local banks are still reeling from a scandal which saw a "disaffected employee" sell a list containing hundreds of names to the German secret service. The Germans quickly passed the list on to other countries nominally supporting "free movement of goods, capitals, services and people". The Liechtenstein police has a warrant for his arrest but they soon discovered the Germans were not only stonewalling all their attempts to have him extradicted for trial but they are also putting him on a fast track for political asylum.
My usually well informed sources told me Swiss and Liechtenstein banks are presently on high alert because agents from sundry EU secret services (chiefly Germany) are actively trying to obtain sensitive customer data. Swiss banks have taken a beating in recent years when the Confederacy raised a white flag on various aspects of banking privacy and this could spell their demise. Security has been tightened but with employees allegedly been offered hundreds of thousands of euro and legal protection to snatch data, they know it's just a matter of time before another scandal erupts. Some customers have been "advised" to quietly move their money to Swiss-owned banks located in the Caribbeans or Asia, outside of the EU reach.
It must be said Prince Hans Adam II has resisted the EU much more effectively and bravely than the cowards in Bern: while the Swiss relented on banking secrecy, Hans Adam and his son and heir apparent, Alois, have fought a long, bitter and mostly successful battle to keep the Eurocrats' noses out of their country. Proof once as again, as Gore Vidal said, "coward gangsters" fear bravery and determination more than threats and violence.
Lichtenstein could never become a mass society, it doesn't have enough territory. It's land-locked prohibiting mass commerce, no access to the sea.
Suppose hypothetically that Liechtenstein is now 62 square miles of anarchist civilization. Do you think the media would be reporting anything else? Nobody would ever forget the moment when 35,000 people began peacefully cooperating without law enforcement. Why wouldn't this society attain a legendary status among people everywhere, and induce many to place their faith in spontaneous order? If so, the politics of every country would swing irrevocably towards economic freedom, and any government that dared to attack Liechtenstein could face a possible uprising.
A seasteading society could potentially have this impact as well. However, if its population became larger than a few hundred people, it is likely that a nearby government would decide to expand its jurisdiction to include it. This is shown by the fact that places like Liechtenstein are very rare, which is why they should be taken advantage of. Moreover, Liechtenstein already has a developed infrastructure and enough people living there to prove a point.
Move to Somalia
So the idea is for lots of libertarians to move to Liechtenstein...
What is thier immigration policy again?
Good luck with this idea guys...
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Ancap66: Suppose hypothetically that Liechtenstein is now 62 square miles of anarchist civilization. Do you think the media would be reporting anything else? Nobody would ever forget the moment when 35,000 people began peacefully cooperating without law enforcement.
Suppose hypothetically that Liechtenstein is now 62 square miles of anarchist civilization. Do you think the media would be reporting anything else? Nobody would ever forget the moment when 35,000 people began peacefully cooperating without law enforcement.
True, no one would forget something like that. But there is law in anarchy. That is all.
Ancap66: Lichtenstein could never become a mass society, it doesn't have enough territory. It's land-locked prohibiting mass commerce, no access to the sea. Suppose hypothetically that Liechtenstein is now 62 square miles of anarchist civilization. Do you think the media would be reporting anything else?
Suppose hypothetically that Liechtenstein is now 62 square miles of anarchist civilization. Do you think the media would be reporting anything else?
You're right it would be news, but rather the media would be condemning it rather than lauding it. The media is part of the allience of intellectuals with state power. The media relies directly on state power for much of its reporting, including access to high-level politicians and leaked info which can make or break media careers. We shall have to withstand media scrutiny rather than expect to be lauded by it.
That or it'll be ignored, perhaps a worst fate.
Ancap66:Nobody would ever forget the moment when 35,000 people began peacefully cooperating without law enforcement.
*Without publicly sponsored law enforcement.
If it's ignored, it will be ignored because it's so small, -only- 35k people with no ability to be a mass society and thus no ability to ever affect things on the world stage.
Ancap66:Why wouldn't this society attain a legendary status among people everywhere, and induce many to place their faith in spontaneous order?
Not with such a small area and people. Instead it would inspire niches of people around the world. But without the ability to move there en masse and become a real force on the world stage, the libertarians might blow their wad and end up contained in a tiny country surrounded by statism and really living at the behest of the EU, which it may not be able to withstand long term.
Ancap66:If so, the politics of every country would swing irrevocably towards economic freedom, and any government that dared to attack Liechtenstein could face a possible uprising.
I'm thinking the same way you are on this, that the existence of an actual libertarian state would begin to change much, inspire many, etc. But I think it must have room to grow. Unless we can build in a region capable of supporting at least 1 billion people, the movement cannot become an actor on the world stage and thus face destruction long-term.
Now, Lichtenstein as an adjunct territory, I'm fine with that. It could be a jumping off point. But I don't think it's ever going to be the main focus of the movement.
Ancap66:A seasteading society could potentially have this impact as well.
Agreed.
Ancap66:However, if its population became larger than a few hundred people, it is likely that a nearby government would decide to expand its jurisdiction to include it.
This is where things get tricky and I'll give you a number of rationales.
For one thing, it depends on the economy of such a seastead. I want to possibly start with a large scale deepwater kelp farm. Being off the coast of California, the state may try to tax me as a Californian. However, being in international waters some 14 miles out, I'll resist that and declare independence with the unveiling of a true libertarian legal code / founding document to rally under via free association.
They may try to make some law at that point, however they will face a challenge as an ex poste facto law, and I will ignore their law and hopefully libertarians will rally together to provide a legal defense in the US.
Should that fail, the option is to move 225 miles out, putting you not just out of US jurisdiction (14 miles) but also out of their so-called exclusive economic zone.
Now, there is one reason why the state may go soft on such a plan and why we could have them by the balls. Because a large-scale seaweed farm could replace foreign oil. And with as much space as you have on the ocean, you could scale it to a size able to replace all oil imports within say 25 years. Completely renewable biodiesel.
If they threaten me then with annexation, I can play the oil card and simply stop importing to them.
The secondary benefit is that this produces a large amount of very productive jobs and thus many people will be able to move there rapidly. Population is the single greatest defense against state monkeying with the place, especially if they nearly all agree to and live by the libertarian legal code. We can then see the rise of needed private companies providing protection, legal arbitration, and the like. And because the state needs us, they won't be able to interfere much.
Ancap66:This is shown by the fact that places like Liechtenstein are very rare, which is why they should be taken advantage of. Moreover, Liechtenstein already has a developed infrastructure and enough people living there to prove a point.
That's great. I'm not saying don't do it. By all means move to Lichtenstein if you can convince them to go full libertarian. I'll fly the Lichtensteinian flag on the open ocean as my registrar nation until we can establish one of our own.
It's a question of likelihoods, and I am leaning towards seasteading as the more promising solution long term. If in your judgment Lichtenstein is the place to be right now, have at thee.
I'm just glad we're finally having real conversations about moving libertarianism into the realm of enactment rather than the past 60 years of focusing on theory and criticism :)