Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZmmf5VWxaU
Medication should be paid for all people. People with certain sicknesses (particularly old people) just cannot afford medication at such costs. It should be provided to them for free, and in order to do that, it all has to be covered under universal healthcare. Should we just let them die or get worse?
Look at the places in the world with universal healthcare, they're consistently considered to have the best healthcare.
kylio27:Medication should be paid for all people.
By who? With what?
kylio27:People with certain sicknesses (particularly old people) just cannot afford medication at such costs.
What entitles them to medication at any particular price? What entitles them to medication at all?
kylio27:It should be provided to them for free, and in order to do that, it all has to be covered under universal healthcare
What do you mean by "for free"?
kylio27:Should we just let them die or get worse?
What mean "we", paleface?
kylio27:Look at the places in the world with universal healthcare, they're consistently considered to have the best healthcare.
By who? By what standard(s)?
The keyboard is mightier than the gun.
Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem.
Voluntaryism Forum
So what you're saying is that you don't care if people just die because of the crazy cost of medication. It needs to be controlled, it's getting crazy and many can't even afford to keep themselves alive. The best way to help everyone is through universal healthcare.
What I'm saying is, answer my questions. Or are you afraid to?
Autolykos - you post 4 minutes after her. The video is over 8 minutes long. You arent going to watch the video and give socialism a chance?! Maybe this hit TV show, "what would you do", proves socialism works?!
we should live by john quinones standards. He's a celebrity, he knows best.
I'm not going to watch the video while I'm at work.
im playing. just making fun. she posted a vid from a reality TV show as proof of need socialized healthcare and she wants to be taken seriously.
kylio - he asked pretty reasonable questions. Why dont you take a minute, think it through, and give them an answer.
kylio27:Medication should be paid for all people. ... It should be provided to them for free, and in order to do that, it all has to be covered under universal healthcare. Should we just let them die or get worse?
Very thorough- makes perfect sense. Food, water, and basic housing should be next.
If I had a cake and ate it, it can be concluded that I do not have it anymore. HHH
ThatOldGuy: Very thorough- makes perfect sense. Food, water, and basic housing should be next.
Wow. Just wow. Really? I can't believe you would ever say such an absurd thing.
Oxygen should next.
Most here would contend that free markets would provide the lowest cost healthcare with the highest quality and greatest distribution. That is, it would be the most humane way to provide healthcare. I agree.
How are we wrong?
The only one worth following is the one who leads... not the one who pulls; for it is not the direction that condemns the puller, it is the rope that he holds.
Wasn't he being sarcastic?
You have no proof. Anyway, American healthcare is private and in a free market, and look how bad it is.
kylio27: Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZmmf5VWxaU Medication should be paid for all people. People with certain sicknesses (particularly old people) just cannot afford medication at such costs. It should be provided to them for free, and in order to do that, it all has to be covered under universal healthcare. Should we just let them die or get worse? Look at the places in the world with universal healthcare, they're consistently considered to have the best healthcare.
These selfish, pro-capitalist, individualist, I-heart-free-market white people donated money without being forced to do so by the government!!!!!!!!!!
To paraphrase Marc Faber: We're all doomed, but that doesn't mean that we can't make money in the process. Rabbi Lapin: "Let's make bricks!" Stephan Kinsella: "Say you and I both want to make a German chocolate cake."
kylio27:You have no proof. Anyway, American healthcare is private and in a free market, and look how bad it is.
What definition of "private" are you using?
What definition of "free market" are you using?
Why are you so afraid to answer my other questions?
gotlucky:Wow. Just wow. Really? I can't believe you would ever say such an absurd thing.
gotlucky, you really shouldn't say things like this when I'm leaning back in my chair- I almost fell off laughing.
SkepticalMetal: Wasn't he being sarcastic?
Hopefully as sarcastic as I was.
There's not enough nice people to help all those in need.
Most here (including myself) would argue that a free market, existing within a free society, would provide healthcare at the lowest prices with the highest quality and the greatest distribution. That is, the free market would be the most humane solution; it would be even better than all those other countries' universal plans. How do you disagree?
kylio27:There's not enough nice people to help all those in need.
What obligates those "in need" to any particular "help"?
(You didn't think ignoring me would make me go away, did you?)
My apologies for the double post.
Nice is a very subjective quality. Luckily, the free market doesn't require "niceness" to provide low prices, high quality, and great distribution. In fact, it is the competition that Brits about those things.
It's called being a good human being to your fellow human being. You should understand this. In order to provide the most help for the most people, universal healthcare would be necessary, as it is UNIVERSAL.
is it a good human to force everyone to follow your opinions at the point of a gun?
Troll:It's called being a good human being to your fellow human being. You should understand this.
I, for one, have next to no idea what in the world you think "being a good human being to your fellow human being" means. And apparently you're too cowardly to explain that to us.
Troll:In order to provide the most help for the most people, universal healthcare would be necessary, as it is UNIVERSAL.
I'll ask you again: what entitles anyone to any particular healthcare? The more you ignore this, the more cowardly and intellectually dishonest you appear.
Yeah, there's not enough nice people. Therefore, the government has to go all 1984 on us and have Jack Bauer break into your home since you didn't pay your taxes which contribute to a centralized health care system which allows no incentive for innovation.
If you want to use shit, you need to pay the taxes. I know you guys hate taxes, but if you want the services like healthcare, and infrastructure, you need to pay up. If you just want to freeload then you should be forced to pay the consequences. You just exploit people from their rights to health.
Troll:If you want to use shit, you need to pay the taxes. I know you guys hate taxes, but if you want the services like healthcare, and infrastructure, you need to pay up. If you just want to freeload then you should be forced to pay the consequences. You just exploit people from their rights to health.
At least now you're explicit about believing that people have a right to health. So where do you think this alleged right to health comes from?
The needs of people were taken care of historically by voluntary cooperation.
All universal healthcare would be is compulsory cooperation, and therfore coercion, and therefore ethically insupportable.
Just because we don't compulse others to care for others doesn't mean they won't do so on their own. The very emotional empathy for people in need that the OP displays, and tries to appeal to in readers is the very empathy that will voluntarily lead to private charitable organizations and groups taking care of these people in need.
It's called natural rights.
If you want to use shit, you need to pay the taxes. I know you guys hate taxes, but if you want the services like healthcare, and infrastructure, you need to pay up. If you just want to freeload then you should be forced to pay the consequences.
I think you just inadvertently destroyed your argument here. Replace "taxes" with "prices." And the only differences between paying taxes to the government and payings prices to a business is that the former is mandatory and lacks any incentive to reduce costs, increase quality, or increase distribution/availability.
Thanks for defeating your own argument!
There is no right to health, not even from what's referred to as natural rights. You're just a)making thigs up or b)repeating things you've heard elsewhere.
I sincerely hope anyone in a convo with kylio27 realizes he/she is probably one of the most obvious trolls I've ever seen. Did you watch the video? Lol, it's hilarious - could actually be used to make a good case for private charity, honestly.
>If you want to use shit, you need to pay the taxes. I know you guys hate taxes, but if you want the services like healthcare, and infrastructure, you need to pay up. If you just want to freeload then you should be forced to pay the consequences. You just exploit people from their rights to health.
wut
Okay, well for one thing, that's a big assumption you just made Comrade. Healthcare and infrastructure MUST be paid for by taxes? Why?
Allow me to substitute:
>Comrades, you must pay your taxes for us to be capable of creating the food that sustains the Motherland! If you didn't pay your taxes, we wouldn't be able to make food and everyone would starve.
See what I did there?
What's "freeloading"? You've lept straight past the "is the government the best/only source of healthcare" argument as if we've already agreed on that, which we haven't. If they government ISN'T providing healthcare, then the only "freeloaders" are people which are voluntarily paid for by charity or non-paid 3rd parties, and they aren't freeloaders as those people gave up the money voluntarily.
Exploiting people for their "right" to health? What kind of retarded statement is that? Does the baker "exploit" the people he sells his bread to? Why, he EXPLOITS the food requirements of his fellow man and gouges them knowing that they need bread to survive! Baker's are parasitic leeches and should be hanged when the DICTATORSHIP OF THE PROLE ARRIVES!
No.
Oh, and I've noticed you seem to have a Genghis Khan approach to making threads. You make a trollish thread in which you refuse to provide sources and claim "its obvious" whenever attacked, and then once you're under sufficient pressure you make a break for it and make a completely different trollish thread. Stop pussying out and stick to a thread, or at least make an acknowledgement of your abandonment when you give up.
How about YOU and those that think like you pay for healthcare for yourselves, and exclude all of us mean greedy people from your coverage? No gun (pay for it or we'll kill you) necessary.
what she needs to do is answer autolykos simple questions so we can go from there.
if an apple a day keeps the doctor away then should we have free apples too? if football raises the probability of needing a doctor by 5% should we ban football? If not then universal healthcare shouldnt cover preventative healthcare? if you cant have preventative healthcare then what healthcare ISNT preventative? If you are still alive then all healthcare is preventative.
if a million $$$ pill is .09% better than a $1.00 pill should we provide the million dollar pill because its better? who makes those decisions? if you a million dollar procedure only has a .0000000001% of working do you do it? if you have 1 million AIDS infected people and only enough meds for 100 of them then who gets the meds?
Since you are obviously understand what it means to be a human being over everyone else please explain.
kylio27:Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZmmf5VWxaU
K. Now you watch this:
I have banned kylio27 for making insults.
Please graveyard this thread.
Daniel Muffinburg:I have banned kylio27 for making insults.
Dammit i knew that was coming. Did you have to delete the related posts though? Couldn't you just like, blank out the word? We lose the continuity in the forum when entire posts are deleted.
On a related note, I do find it pretty funny how someone comes here specifically to troll us and he ends up being the one losing his cool and resorting to insults. You're welcome any time, kylios of the world!
Shhh, don't be so loud. I've noticed that recently there have been a lot of spammers on the site making topics advertising some sports event.