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*** October 2012 low content thread ***

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ThatOldGuy replied on Tue, Oct 16 2012 11:14 PM

Tom Woods and everyone else I asked recommended reading Man, Economy and State over Human Action first. The primary reason is that Mises assumes much more knowledge of philosophy on the part of the reader in reading his work than Rothbard does in his work. In fact, the point of publishing MES was to make HA easier to understand for college students. This is not to say that Rothbard offers no original analysis and does not expand on or critique Mises' arguments- he does do this.

One way you could go about it is doing the following: every time you see a reference to a specific part of Man, Economy and State in another work, read that section in order to familiarize yourself with parts of the text. This way you can dip your toes into the work before a full reading of it. You will already be familair with some parts and reading the referenced parts, as well as the book which refers to them, can help clarify any passage that is complicated on its own (on its own meaning: without reference to the original book which referred to MES in the first place). The part in MES and the text which refers to the part should supplement each other, making the concept in question easier to understand. When you feel confident in your ability to read MES, you can do it side by side with the study guide, as you indicate you will do in the future, which is available for free. The study guide summarizes each section and poses questions on each section in order to promote understanding of the text.

If I had a cake and ate it, it can be concluded that I do not have it anymore. HHH

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fegeldolfy replied on Wed, Oct 17 2012 12:08 AM

Yes, the study guide to MES

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From EPJ:

The Politics of Fear in America: A Nation at War with Itself

If I had a cake and ate it, it can be concluded that I do not have it anymore. HHH

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Wheylous replied on Wed, Oct 17 2012 8:14 AM

Team Brittany (3 female ancaps) discuss the VP "debate":

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Neodoxy replied on Wed, Oct 17 2012 8:23 AM

The study guide itself is not enough to really give you a good idea of what is being said. Rothbard will often go in depth about issues that Murphy will spend a minute on or not even mention. It's a good little complement to the book but it probably won't teach you that much on its own.

At last those coming came and they never looked back With blinding stars in their eyes but all they saw was black...
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Clayton replied on Wed, Oct 17 2012 2:39 PM

NYT suggests that Iran can't print enough money. I find the uncharacteristic honesty in describing the role of monetary inflation in statecraft to be refreshing:

“By manipulating and increasing the printing volume of the rial, the regime can bolster its floundering currency and mask the disastrous impact of its political decisions, economic mismanagement and isolation,” Mark D. Wallace, the chief executive of United Against Nuclear Iran, said in announcing the campaign.

Is that so? Of course, this is only true of the Iranian central bank with respect to Iranian foreign policy and could not possibly describe the actions of the Fed as they relate to USG's foreign policy.

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@Neodoxy I'm planning on reading the study guide with Man Economy and State, in the format of chapter-study guide-chapter-study guide-chapter-study guide etc.

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z1235 replied on Wed, Oct 17 2012 7:04 PM

Gero:
I almost fully agree with Daniel J. Sanchez, but I disagree about the voting issue. Tom Woods said, ‘I realize I'm in the minority here, but I'm unconvinced that not voting is the obvious libertarian position . . . (1) You are not consenting to the system by voting.  I can't remember who it was who made this analogy (which I have modified slightly), but if you were in a concentration camp and you were allowed to vote on having either steak or human flesh for dinner, you would not be consenting to the system by voting for steak.’

By not voting and convincing others to do the same you are chipping away at the walls of the concentration camp (the legitimacy of the election "winners"). Voting turnout is already around 40%. Could an election "winner" still claim legitimacy after a 20% election turnout? The other 80% don't even have to become voluntarists for this to work. All is needed is a conviction that elections don't make a difference on the things that really matter (central banking, handouts to cronies under the pretense of warfare/welfare spending, etc.). 

By voting, you increase the turnout % which makes it easier for the "winner" to claim legitimacy. 

 

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Clayton replied on Wed, Oct 17 2012 7:15 PM

Woods may not fully understand the import of public choice theory. It's not so much that voting is bad as it is utterly inconsequential (at least, at the national and most State levels, and even at some county and municipal levels). Turnout, then, is a "thermometer" that tracks the gullibility of the general public to the pretense that voting matters.

Reducing turnout should not be an end in itself but I think it is an inevitable byproduct of a widespread and growing realization of the facts of public choice theory on an intuitive level (that voting simply does not and cannot make any difference).

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Malachi replied on Wed, Oct 17 2012 7:18 PM
I love how apalled people get when I tell them I want as low turnout as possible so that my vote is worth more.
Keep the faith, Strannix. -Casey Ryback, Under Siege (Steven Seagal)
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Just read a post on RevLeft from a Juche advocate who said "I have fantasies of North Korea bombing my house."

Douchebag needs to get his head checked.

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Neodoxy replied on Wed, Oct 17 2012 7:59 PM

"@Neodoxy I'm planning on reading the study guide with Man Economy and State, in the format of chapter-study guide-chapter-study guide-chapter-study guide etc."

Ah, I see. Alright, that's not a bad idea at all. Indeed it makes the work infinitely more readable

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Malachi replied on Thu, Oct 18 2012 11:27 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/magic-mushrooms-and-cancer-my-magical-mystery-cure-8212368.html

psilocybin studied as therapy for cancer survivors

Keep the faith, Strannix. -Casey Ryback, Under Siege (Steven Seagal)
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oh what the hell... where is an AE book on the Panic of 1873?!?!

any suggestions that would go into detail on it?

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http://libertarianjew.blogspot.com/

Interesting.

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Jargon replied on Thu, Oct 18 2012 3:22 PM

@SM - so basically: "Hey I'm a Jew and I'm so special! Look at my ethnicity/religion woooo!" Besides, if you're a Zionist you have about as good a chance of being a libertarian as a camel does to pass through the eye of a needle.

Land & Liberty

The Anarch is to the Anarchist what the Monarch is to the Monarchist. -Ernst Jünger

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Clayton replied on Thu, Oct 18 2012 3:25 PM

Reminds me of that Doug Stanhope bit. LOL

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Fephisto replied on Thu, Oct 18 2012 6:14 PM

Grant:

 

I'll suggest the obvious, sorry if you've already looked at it:

 

http://mises.org/community/forums/p/17886/344244.aspx

http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Panic_of_1873

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Wheylous replied on Thu, Oct 18 2012 8:31 PM

I have a creeping suspicion that we don't give Robert Higgs enough attention and credit on these boards.

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fephisto - thanks i will check it out.  I flipped through like 3 or 4 rothbard books that i thought i could of been in.  over looked that.

whey - Strange that i just started reading my first book from him today.  Why do you say that?

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Wheylous replied on Thu, Oct 18 2012 9:02 PM

Because looking at his work he seems like a historian who has done a whole bunch of analysis, and I don't see him mentioned too much.

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Ya thats exactly what I thought too.  When I was looking for something about the panic of 1873 i came across  the "transformation of the America economy from1865-1914" looks pretty good

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Wheylous replied on Thu, Oct 18 2012 9:27 PM

I'm really interested in reading that book as well, as I've heard that it discusses protection of the environment through property rights (if I am not mistaken).

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Clayton replied on Thu, Oct 18 2012 10:00 PM

Rogue Dumping of Iron Into Ocean Stirs Controversy

Who said chemtrails are an impossibility?

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For the people who have read Man, Economy, and State, how long did it take you to read, and how many pages did you read per day (or how much time did you spend reading it each day)?

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Bert replied on Fri, Oct 19 2012 10:37 AM

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
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Groucho replied on Fri, Oct 19 2012 10:52 AM

I've been starting to wonder...

This forum awards "points" to users based on the number of replies to their posts. Does anyone agree that this dynamic would tend to encourage trolls? I can just imagine them having contests with each other:

"Tee hee! This time I got to 1,000 points in only 1 day on the Mises forum!"
"Har har har! I got 10,000 points with only 50 posts but it took a week"
"We're so cool! Let's register more accounts tomorrow let's see who gets 10,000 first!"

The incentives are all wrong....

An idealist is one who, on noticing that roses smell better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup. -H.L. Mencken
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Bert replied on Fri, Oct 19 2012 10:56 AM

No, because the points honestly don't mean anything.

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
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Groucho replied on Fri, Oct 19 2012 10:59 AM

Maybe they don't mean anything to anyone except the trolls. A dead squirrel attracts plenty of flies.

An idealist is one who, on noticing that roses smell better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup. -H.L. Mencken
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Bert replied on Fri, Oct 19 2012 11:05 AM

It sort of goes along with the theory of my list.  Probably too much time on my hands to look at trolls in such a way.

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
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Bert replied on Fri, Oct 19 2012 3:35 PM

Past week I've been in the Shenandoah mountains and floating around Skyline Drive, now comfortably back home.  When I was up there I actually went into the visitor center this time where you learn the history of the development of the park.  It was pretty much a Herbert Hoover/FDR worship center that even played the same folk song over and over praising either of the two (I don't remember which, really statist and laughable lyrics that would have made Guthrie shoot himself).  Though, they didn't hesitate in showing some dark facts.  I cannot remember names, but obviously people lived in those hills where they wanted to construct this massive public works project.  They sent a woman who was a teacher to train some of the people up there, as well with two sociologists, she reported her findings that people who lived in those areas were unfit to take care of themselves and should be moved for their own benefit (how convenient), and after these reports she convinced the government to give her a position overseeing the displacement of the local people (make a bias report and convince those who sent you to give you an official position based on the unquestioned report you wrote).  They did have a few records on the walls of people being paid to have new homes that wasn't in the way of construction, but I don't know the numbers of the amount of people displaced compared to those who were actually compensated for their removal.

Here's an article going over some of the history.

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
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Wheylous replied on Fri, Oct 19 2012 4:26 PM

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I guess, praxeologically, both statues suffice for both titles.

If I had a cake and ate it, it can be concluded that I do not have it anymore. HHH

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I think that comic artist is about to get sued by Tebow

Where there is no property there is no justice; a proposition as certain as any demonstration in Euclid

Fools! not to see that what they madly desire would be a calamity to them as no hands but their own could bring

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Does he really have "rights" to Tebowing?

If I had a cake and ate it, it can be concluded that I do not have it anymore. HHH

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Homework assignment - I have to create a manual or a feasibility report and i really wanted to do one on something related to socialism or capitalism. (this is a technical writing class)

The topic needs to be approved by my professor and she keeps shooting down my ideas because it needs to be for an actual business i worked for or a nonprofit organization.

Any ideas?  So it looks like i will have to do a manual, but what type of manual can i do on socialism or capitalism that has a specific target audience?

Eat the apple, fuck the Corps. I don't work for you no more!
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RagnarD replied on Fri, Oct 19 2012 7:16 PM

Not sure if this fits Grant, but I'll throw it out there to help you, and/or to give the idea to someone else since I'm sure It's a project I'll never get around to since I hate programming.

The idea is for a webpage and forum based around promoting and boycotting eveyday products and companies based upon the Capitalist vs Socialist/Corporatist ideals ,and actions of their companies.  Funded by pay per click advertising.

 

edit: oops missed this part

it needs to be for an actual business i worked for or a nonprofit organization.

 

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