First of all, there are NO GOD-given rights, or NATURAL-rights. "Rights" are something that are a product of a particular countries constitution and set of laws. Too bad you don't know what health care is like in almost EVERY country in the rest of the world. The US is almost the ONLY country in the world with PRIVATE health care. Here in Canada, and in almost every country in the world - health care is a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT. In Canada you go to a doctor and the government pays for it. You don't DIE IF YOU'RE TOO POOR TO PAY FOR OBSCENELY EXPENSIVE DOCTORS. And guess what? The results from our health care are almost identical to the US - except in many cases better in Canada. And we spend HALF as much of our countries GDP on health care as you do in the US. (Maybe that's because 1/3 of what you spend on health care goes to insurance companies and paper pushers.) It's too bad, that you have been brainwashed by the propaganda of your massively powerful for-profit health care political machine. Millions and millions of dollars are spent by the greedy medical "industry" to buy your politicians and millions more are spent to cloud your mind about what is really going on with your health care by massive publicity campaigns created by an immoral industry that lets millions of people die because they cannot afford a doctor. Most of the rest of the developed world laughs at how ignorant Americans are about their health care system. And yes, it's mostly the Republicans who are the MOST heartless about letting the poor die in the streets because they can't afford care.
How is a Canadian going to the dentist to get their teeth cleaned or getting a yearly physical at the doctor or getting an IMPORTANT LIFE-SAVING surgery an act of THE "EVIL" GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING THEM THROUGH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE???
I didn't know there was an epidemic of poor people dying in the streets due to lack of receiving health care in America. That's weird.
The only one worth following is the one who leads... not the one who pulls; for it is not the direction that condemns the puller, it is the rope that he holds.
greenbabe: First of all, there are NO GOD-given rights, or NATURAL-rights... ... Here in Canada, and in almost every country in the world - health care is a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT.
First of all, there are NO GOD-given rights, or NATURAL-rights...
... Here in Canada, and in almost every country in the world - health care is a BASIC HUMAN RIGHT.
There can be no such thing as a right to a service provided by others. If you say healthcare is a right, doesn't that mean that doctors should be forced to serve those who have a right to healthcare? And isn't that then slavery?
It is.
Thus, healthcare is not a right, it is a privilege. And no one owes healthcare to anyone else.
Without healthcare, the vast majority of people will not die for years. Without food, everyone will die within weeks. Hence, food is a far more urgent need than healthcare. Ergo, if healthcare is a basic human right by virtue of its criticality to human survival, food is much more so. Therefore, the Communists were right (by your logic) and we do need food production to be run by the government since food is far too important to be left to the greedy private sector.
/thread
Clayton -
Note this. Given that economic freedom enhances economic growth, this means that we are becoming richer than before. Prices would decline as a result of productivity gains. This means that people have also more money to spend on everything else, including healthcare. Healthcare would be more accessible to poor and rich people. By the same token, if welfare state hampers growth, people would have less money to spend on everything, including healthcare. By the way...
Ok, I get that insurance companies, large pharmaceutical companies, for profit hospital companies, etc are evil, but the only alternative you have is to use the angelic government/s with their monopoly on the use of violence do a better job? I find that concept to not only be unsustainable but heartless in the extreme. I must be ignorant of the love shown by large bureaucracies like the Post Office, FEMA, large urban school districts, etc.
My alternative is to go back to the mostly freemarket system of healthcare delivery in the USA used in the 1950s when the hospital charged several DOZENS of dollars for small things like delivering a baby. (Interesting enough that would be about 1700/35 x 90 rougthly 4320 in todays dollars when an uncomplicated vaginal birth is about $10000). Considering the advances in technology that should make the process cheaper the government stepped in made it more expensive by a factor of 2.
I have this feeling that all of these trolls are secretly someone like Walter Block or Tom Woods trying to test us.
A condensed version of the OP:
Might = right.
Government monopoly x is bad. Therefore it should be replaced with government monopoly y, the results of which are "almost identical to [government monoply x]".
Here in Canada
Why do you care what we do? I'm pretty sure no one cares about what Canada is doing...catch my drift?
people like the op "There is no such thing as natural rights, we get all rights from the government, i think that everyone has a right to a house, education, healthcare, free money, welfare and so on"
Instead of free healthcare and education, why can't we have a right to boats and jacuzzi and porsche?
I want a right from the government to have a weekly massage FROM a very attractive woman. This forms a part of my essential needs, CONSIDERING that I AM a labour slave AND my slave master (my boss) exploits me every day, i think i NEED a weekly massage...
Greenbabe is absolutely right! Haven't you guys seen Sicko?? In Cuba the government doesn't let sickly people die in the streets because they are poor!
Now look upon the result of your greedy policies!
LOOK AT HOW SAD THEY ARE
fegeldolfy: I have this feeling that all of these trolls are secretly someone like Walter Block or Tom Woods trying to test us.
That would be hilarious :)
Clayton nice reply vooom.... superb.
All these fallcious arguments always preclude the starting conditions to augment their fallacies. I have beat you with a stick, now you are injured, therefore you need a doctor, please step into my office and buy my services. This is what government does Now where is the problem there?! It's either ignorant or dishonest but it's never correct.
Government and more specifically the fiat money class - the owners of the private federal reserve cartel and it's subsidiaries, cousins and parents around the world has robbed society of it's prosperity through what in my opinion amounts to nothing but fraud and deception - no provision of good or service at face value - simply a fraud to 99% of the victims. It then used that power to come to claim to regulate the food supply, for example, but the food is making everyone sick. It poisons the water with forced medication - sodium fluoride and it's derivatives - and so on - cancer is on the rise, the government protects the cancer industry and squashes alternative cures or even the ability for people to hear about these alternative cures, and protects people from finding out the real causes. This is the same agency that said that the air was safe to breath to workers at ground zero on 9/11 - those same workers are dying in droves from respiratory related illnesses, cancer, etc. The air was full of asbestos and other dangerous substances. Now that they have robbed society of it's properity, including it's charitable impulses, since why would I give money to charity when that's the governments job, now they push their propaganda that "If we don't give people "free" (a lie) healthcare then they will all die" meanwhile, ironically, the healthcare plan consists of death panels and basically yeah, when the fiat system runs out of steam it's full steam of the euthanasia, and don't be surprised when eugenics rears it's ugly head again and asserts it's new found "legitimacy". That's what government healthcare is.
I AGREE FREE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL. PLEASE GO ESTABLISH YOUR HOSPITAL AND GIVE ME FREE TREATMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence.""The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”
http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.org
greenbabe: How is a Canadian going to the dentist to get their teeth cleaned or getting a yearly physical at the doctor or getting an IMPORTANT LIFE-SAVING surgery an act of THE "EVIL" GOVERNMENT CONTROLLING THEM THROUGH SOCIALIZED MEDICINE???
I wasn't convinced at first but your patronizing tone and caps lock changed my mind.
Bogart: Ok, I get that... for profit hospital companies, etc are evil
Ok, I get that... for profit hospital companies, etc are evil
Are you implying that hostpitals are evil because they are "for profit," or do you think are inherently evil?
The US is almost the ONLY country in the world with PRIVATE health care.
You mean when the government pays for half of all of healthcare expenses? Got it.
If you want people to take you seriously you need to actually state some facts and data to support those facts. Simply ranting about how you "feel" about a topic makes you look like you don't know any real facts or have a real understanding of the topic you are ranting about.
Do you know who Danny Williams is? Canadian Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador. Where did he go to get heart surgery? That’s right Miami, FL….. WHY?
"I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics," Williams said.
People who have money in Canada leave...... The Mayo Clinic has started offering private health insurance to Canadians. Apparently there is a big market for it. Canadians can travel to the USA for healthcare. Here is the website so you can sign up. http://www.mycare.ca/mayoclinic/
46,000 Canadians left Canada in 2011 to seek healthcare in other countries. 46,000 people who would rather pay out of pocket than get "free" healthcare.
And by the way... its not free. Its estimated that it costs Canadians $5,500 per-capita.
Here is a website for Canadians who are unhappy with their system:
http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-stories/too-old-for-hip-surgery/
I guess you watch Fox News. They say that crap about our healthcare. So why are we up in the top all the time for best healthcare in the world?
Hahaha, you have a whole thread of people own you and THAT is your rebuttal??
It's just a griefer. Don't you love democracy?
It's too bad, that you have been brainwashed by the propaganda of your massively powerful for-profit health care political machine.
Other than FOX news, which I never watch, can you point out where that propaganda comes from, greenbabe? So that I may avoid it. My brain is small and not think so good I.
To the guy criticizing Canadian healthcare, no one is saying its perfect, but its something. I have lots of Canadian friends who bitch about it but they are still happy to know if they need a major operation they don't have to put up their house just to pay for it.
And Im sure America has some of the best health care. Its the ACCESS and money thats the issue. Not the care itself. Why does that constantly gets lost?
Also, rich people sometimes go abroad for treatment!? Stop the presses!
Greenbabe,
You are clearly Kylio. It's almost as if you wanted us to know who you were when you returned. Ban dodging and trolling. Perma-ban.
The atoms tell the atoms so, for I never was or will but atoms forevermore be.
Yours sincerely,
Physiocrat
America doesn't have private health care.
So you'd be okay with a system that produces inferior service at a lower price? Then surely you must also be okay with no service at no price! Problem solved.
"
You are clearly Kylio. It's almost as if you wanted us to know who you were when you returned. Ban dodging and trolling. Perma-ban."
Moderators, please don't ban this guy. He is clearly ignorant. But he is also here. He wouldn't be posting on this forum if he didn't want to hear and read the free market side. Shut him up with facts and logic, not with a ban.
I don't want this place to feel like democraticunderground.com Everyone is on high alert there. Anyone can be banned on a moments notice for thinking the wrong thing. No real discussion takes place there.
greenbabe, what you need to first understand is that we do not have anything near private healthcare in America. Ask the people here to explain why that is if you do not understand why it is not private.
I have not seen a TV news program on Fox (or TV at all) in almost a year. It was not Fox News, the data is from Canada. Show me the stats that place Canada in the top of all time.
You keep responding with nothing but conjecture. If you have any real substance to your argument please post.
"If you have any real substance to your argument please post."
I don[t know if he can, didn't the moderator ban him?