I was just thinking about this recently, and I can recall to a time (a few years ago) when I was really obsessed with the atheist vs. religion stuff on the internet. I would watch all these debates and videos on Youtube, and read a bunch of stuff on it. It was something I was really interested in, because I had become a "free thinker" and was skeptical about a lot of that stuff since I was young.
However, ever since getting into libertarianism, I have completely lost my interest in the religious debates. I just don't feel it is as important, and looking back on a lot of that stuff that occupied my attention, I have to laugh.
Anyway, the atheist community has big events coming up. One is the Free Thought Convention and the other is "Skepticon". Now, I've come to sort of despise a lot of people in the atheist community because all these events I imagine are just a big jerkfest to "free thought" and a big hate fest on religion.
I just wonder if ANY of the atheists that attend these conventions have ever truly been skeptical about the religion of THE STATE.
Do you think these people are wasting their time? Or rather, do you think they should at least consider being even more "free thinking" by directing some of that skeptical passion toward the state?
I feel the exact same way that you do. Now that I have jumped the mental hurdle of anarchism, religion seems pathetically superficial in comparison. It puzzles me that most atheists are left-leaning. They adamantly reject creationism from a top-down god, but they embrace top-down solutions from the state.
Maybe they are gravitated to the state because it's the most powerful thing currently on earth? The "gods" if you will? Or maybe it's because the same institutions that tend to breed atheism also tend to be populated by left-wing professors.
It would be nice if they applied the same logical arguments to the state that they do to religion. But state-schooling has so ingrained in the minds of most that the government is good and necessary. Anarchism is also usually associated either with vandalism and chaos, or the libertarian left. That, and most people are economically ignorant and believe that the world is functioning under a free market, and thus all its problems are the fault of capitalism.
It's fashionable to hate on captialism right now, regardless of whether or not we're even living in it.
I'm an agnostic, and I see where you're coming from. However, despite this, and despite the fact that I think Bill Maher is a bit of a moron, I do get a kick out of "Religulous."
I think that most (or at least a significant percentage) of libertarians are atheists. I think that most atheists are not libertarians because they are not in fact skeptics, judging things for themselves. They are simply sheep following a different shepherd.
THere has been a few discussions...
“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence.""The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”
Aristippus:I think that most (or at least a significant percentage) of libertarians are atheists. I think that most atheists are not libertarians because they are not in fact skeptics, judging things for themselves. They are simply sheep following a different shepherd.
Pretty much everything that came to my mind.
Good one, Aristippus.
If I had a cake and ate it, it can be concluded that I do not have it anymore. HHH
TronCat:However, ever since getting into libertarianism, I have completely lost my interest in the religious debates. I just don't feel it is as important, and looking back on a lot of that stuff that occupied my attention, I have to laugh.
Aaron:It would be nice if they applied the same logical arguments to the state that they do to religion. But state-schooling has so ingrained in the minds of most that the government is good and necessary.
Well of course I feel that they should extend skepticism to the state, but I find the talk of open-mindedness among most emphatic atheists, the ones who are actually proud of their atheism and find fighting religion as one of their main priorities. The entire debate is unimportant and isn't going anywhere fast. It isn't important specifically because an atheist world is not a better world because atheist people are not necessarily any smarter, or any better at applying whatever degree of intelligence they do have than religious people.
Anyway, historically atheists have always drifted to the left. Many of the most vocal early atheists were socialists or socialistic anarchists. Marx and his followers were the ones who proclaimed religion as the opiate of the proletariat, one of the most evil and pernicious lies which humanity ever faced. This continues, the fact is that if you're an atheist it's kind of expected that you're a liberal. The entire right is associated with religion, and so libertarianism is by default.
There's no such thing as an atheist. It's just the definition of who god is that changes. To me, atheism implies secular humanism. Humanity (or simply self) determines what is right or wrong, its own values, its own standards, etc. Naturally, this would include the state and political consensus among citizens. This is a logical conclusion of "atheism" and why they are mostly statists. Libertarianism is more congruous with Biblical Christianity. Scripture stresses individual accountability to God, not collective, government, or anything of the sort. Unfortunately, mainstream Christianity and evangelicals do not understand this. Their attempts to use government to legislate morality is just as wrong as the left's attempt.
Exactly. Atheists go from worshipping a god to worshipping the state. Personally I have no problem with religion as long as people don't try to impose it on me. And mind you, there is a history of that happening. Look at how many wars have been fought over religion. This is no excuse to promote state atheism however, being that just because it is there doesn't mean we have to target it. When the old religion argument comes up, I compare it to the gun argument. It isn't the guns that are committing the crime, it's the individuals behind them. With religion, it isn't the religion that's doing this, it's the people following it.