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Open borders would make America a third-world nation within a year

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MissMapleLeaf Posted: Fri, Nov 2 2012 7:42 PM

too many immigrants would be coming in and not enough jobs to support everyone, and not to mention the crime rate will go up because of them. Look at the scandinavian countries and Australia that have strict border control and they're the happiest places in the world. 

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Australia has strict border controls??  Are you kidding me?  The only border control Australia has is a natural one (i.e. ocean), and even then anyone who wants to leech free stuff off the Australians only needs to set out from Indonesia towards Christmas Island and the Australian navy will come pick them up.

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...Happiest places in the world?

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Al gore invented the internet.

Maple, can you tell me why al gore invented the internet.

Educate me, if you know so much.

I want to know you more =).

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Okay well besides Australia what I'm saying is true and if there were no borders it would be chaos 

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You have no reasoning.

Tell me why there would be chaos if national borders were ignored.

Oh yes i forgot, people born in mexico and people born in united states are 2 totally different types of humans and should not be mixed up whatsoever.

You sound like a racist liberal conservative lizard.

“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence."
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Immigrants are self-interested like the rest of us and go to where they believe they have better opportunities. That's why a lot of Mexican immigrants are leaving the U.S. for their home country rather than staying.

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Jargon replied on Fri, Nov 2 2012 8:08 PM

I'm actually inclined to agree, not for the same reasons, but just because the citizens of a country under  a private law scenario would have the legal authority to expel any immigrants. Under statism the infrastructure, that would be provided privately, is provided by the people and so transitively belongs to them. They should have the authority to keep immigrants out if they don't want them. Employers often have the advantage of encouraging immigration to lower labor costs even if the residents of the country don't want that to happen.

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A family friend of ours, staunch leftist, went to Scandinavia and was dissapointed that everyone there was unhappy :P

But anyway, just because there would be open borders it doesn't mean that every person would come to the US. Furthermore, just because Scandinavia is (supposedly) better than the US and happens to have closed borders it doesn't mean that it is better because it has closed borders. Using that logic, we should remove minorities from the US to achieve better standards of living just because Scandinavia doesn't have many non-white people.

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Jargon - even then, I'm not sure there would be chaos.

Either way, MML, what do you care? You mean we should deny the chance to poor people abroad to become wealthier?

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Jargon replied on Fri, Nov 2 2012 8:22 PM

Yeah I don't think there would be chaos, but I do think that the citizens of a nation have the right to determine the character and quantity of their population via property rights.

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So a nation's happiness is determined by it's hetergeneous nature?

By that logic, North Korea is that happiest nation on Earth.

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Well look at blacks that wherever they go crime rates go up and same with hispanics. Someone said north korea well they're just stupid anyway, just look at african countries too. 

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 Someone said north korea well they're just stupid anyway, just look at african countries too.

do you even read your own fucking posts, or jsut put whatever down just to talk?

“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence."
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Well look at blacks that wherever they go crime rates go up and same with hispanics. Someone said north korea well they're just stupid anyway, just look at african countries too.

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Wow I'm not trolling, it's true. Crime rates go up where more blacks are and look at the muslims always trying to bring their religion to places like in the UK. 

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Malachi replied on Fri, Nov 2 2012 8:59 PM
Whose face are you defaming with those comments?
Keep the faith, Strannix. -Casey Ryback, Under Siege (Steven Seagal)
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Wow I'm not trolling, it's true. Crime rates go up where more blacks are and look at the muslims always trying to bring their religion to places like in the UK.

Even if those statistics are true, I think it would be morally wrong to punish the individual because of the supposed behavior of the collective. Immigrants who want to enter a country in order to work are a boon to society. 'Illegal' immigrants in the U.S., for example, take on jobs that our own citizens no longer want. We should be grateful for them.

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Neodoxy replied on Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:12 PM

There is some truth here, but with this said it's mainly the cause of states to begin with. I think that there could be such a massive influx that it could cause some problems, but they could be dealt with fairly readily simply through free market employment. Most of the people coming over would be such unskilled labor that most natives of the U.S would be very well off because as unskilled labor floods into the country, even moderately skilled labor increases in value because new skilled jobs are needed to manage the increase in output. With truly mass immigration, a bigger problem might actually be the deflation that would be caused in the midst of all of this.

Anyway, any changes like this would, at most, be temporary, and if everyone did this then there would be mostly slight increases in everyone's population. More importantly you're committing a really grave fallacy in your first post. Also a more genuine point would have been income and crime rate (rape is... All too common in Sweden) which you do not reference much in the OP

As for crime rates, you could argue this is in large part because of the poor educational system and employment opportunities for many immigrants, which could be dealt with in a more effective manner in an anarchist society for reasons mentioned elsewhere... I should also mention that if you're going to talk about immigrants being more likely to commit criminal acts then some would point to that whole... Racialist argument that you recently spoke out against

Also, MMMF, I think that you have a genuine desire to learn here, but I think a much better way to do this would be to be non-confrontational and simply pose a question or ask how people would respond to the argument. The way you are doing it now looks like you're flamebaiting, because you make statements and then don't back them up very well. If you're trying to learn, then ask questions, if you're trying to argue for something then provide intelligent, reasonable, and somewhat indepth arguments, not short statements which occasionally run into some fairly obvious logical holes.

At last those coming came and they never looked back With blinding stars in their eyes but all they saw was black...
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We can make cheap and dirty labor automated so we don't need immigrants. 

Also someone brought up rape in Sweden, well most of thos cases are Muslim men

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@MissMapleLeaf

lol at the notion crime rates go up where more black are.  I have a feeling if we hopped in a tme machine we could probably find a lot of people who observed crime rates go up when warmongering whites arrived on the scene. Let's go rape, pillage, and plunder a few civilizations, enslave them, and then bitch about what terrible people they are. . .

hell we don't even need a time machine, let's ask Iraq, Iran, Syria, etc.

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Neodoxy replied on Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:21 PM

"We can make cheap and dirty labor automated so we don't need immigrants."

Then why does that labor pool have jobs? Why do Mexicans come here if it would be more cost effective to just mechanize their jobs?

At last those coming came and they never looked back With blinding stars in their eyes but all they saw was black...
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Just because whites have been involved in conquering in the past doesn't change the facts of today. Blacks cause a lot of crime wherever they are 

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Malachi replied on Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:25 PM
So youre going to continue to make people think that the person in your avatar is not just an idiot, but also a racist? Thats pretty epic scumbaggery
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Jargon replied on Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:25 PM

Do you really believe that LFOD? That American whites are still responsible for the actions of American blacks?

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Jargon replied on Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:26 PM

BTW does anyone find it kind of funny how we've just recently had a racially controversial thread and then this troll-poster just shows up and starts trying to coax some nice screenshots out of the woodwork?

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I'm not racist, I'm just telling the facts 

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Malachi replied on Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:29 PM
Its not funny, its filthy stinking trolling is what it is. The part that makes it actually wrong is associating someone else's face with it, assuming that is a real picture, that it is not of the user, and that the user doesnt have permission to use it.
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Malachi replied on Fri, Nov 2 2012 9:31 PM
Youre not racist, youre a troll and you got bored and decided to implode your second account by getting banned for racism. Am I a detective or are you just some high school kid who thinks he is clever on the internets? You dont care because you can still go back to posting as t_____t.
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There is not a fixed quantity of jobs. Unemployment in excess of the normal "flux" (i.e. the people who are briefly unemployed simply because they are switching from one job to another) is always and everywhere a consequence of State intervention in the economy, most especially fixing the price of labor above the market rate: i.e. minimum wage laws.  Absent such intervention, no amount of immigration would ever cause us to "run out of jobs." And anyway, labor is a valuable resource. A greater supply of labor is a good thing: just as a greater supply of copper, or oil, or arable land is a good thing. It means potentially more production --> cheaper consumer goods --> higher standards of living.

As for the comments on crime and the generally xenophobic tone, I don't know what to say....thas racis (but more importantly it's just stupid, has no basis in reality, etc).

apiarius delendus est, ursus esuriens continendus est
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Even if places with hispanics and blacks had more crime what would that matter if we are talking about immigration.

What if everyone in those crime ridden areas are legal immigrants or born in america?

Now what?

You now have no argument....

There is absolutely no incentive for illegal immigrants to commit crimes. Crimes will get them in contact with the state, and land them a higher chance of being deported or jailed.

You lay no reasoning or ground for any of your arguments.

You just spout your stupid bullshit at us.

“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence."
"The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”

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It's not about illegal immigrants, it is about ethnicity. THe blacks and hispanics bring a lot of crime wherever they go 

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Malachi replied on Fri, Nov 2 2012 11:00 PM
Troncat, no one cares anymore
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@Jargon

I don't believe anyone is responsible for anything but their own actions . . .

However, if you are going to shit on an entire race of people, incorporate them into a political body of second class citizenship because you do not believe they are equal, then treat them separate but almost equal for a century, set the law against them, etc.  I find it entirely unreasonable to pass judgement on the race that has been on the receiving end of tyranny.  Furthermore certain elitist whites appear to equally discriminate against all races and have no problem shitting on everyone so long as they can maintain their power and those bastards are going to have to find a new home other than the planet earth.

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You guys need to get better at recognizing trolls. It can't get any easier in this case. No one is this stupid, and if they appear this stupid, it's because they're putting so little effort into their posts that they still qualify as a troll.

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Aaron replied on Sat, Nov 3 2012 12:21 AM

^^^^

He's right. I knew kylio/missmapleleaf/et. all was a troll months ago. I think the word is 'poe'. I've seen atheists do this where they pretend to be religious, but normal religious arguments are so stupid anyway that it's sometimes difficult to discern if what they're saying is genuine or a parody.

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Scandinavia has strict border controls? Have you heard of the European Union?

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, and Finland have all got higher suicide rates than the US.
Norway, depression hits half the country.

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@NonAntiAnarchist

Who cares about trolls.  They are lucky I am not running the forum.  Not only would I post their ip address but after I looked them up and found out who they are I would post their address, picture, and a bio.  I like to think of them more like cochroaches, when you turn the light on they head for the nearest crack or crevice.

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Scandinavia have STRICT border control? You are delusional.... 

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Apropos to what Malachi said, I recommend everyone checking out this and this.

The keyboard is mightier than the gun.

Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem.

Voluntaryism Forum

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