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Famous people who were either anarchist or considered anarchism?

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TronCat Posted: Mon, Nov 5 2012 9:52 AM

"My political opinions lean more and more to anarchy. The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power stations. I hope that, encouraged now as patriotism, may remain a habit."

- J.R.R. Tolkien

 

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Alan Moore.

And Penn Jillette even said that he's extremely anarcho-capitalist leaning.

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TronCat replied on Mon, Nov 5 2012 10:11 AM

Is Penn drifting from his Randian ways? 

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What do you mean?

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TronCat replied on Mon, Nov 5 2012 10:16 AM

He once said he was 'obsessed' with Rand, and a big fan of her philosophy. She despised anarchists. 

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Oh, lol. I wasn't sure if you were talking about Ayn Rand or Rand Paul. But yeah, I had heard that Penn was a fan of Objectivism. But you have to remember that Ayn Rand detested anyone who didn't think exactly like her. I remember someone once said on here (I forgot who it was) that he "would tip my hat to Ayn Rand the writer, but to Ayn Rand the woman, I put my hat back on."

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@SkepticalMetal

Yeah, I feel the same way about Rand. I love most of her philosophy, but she wasn't exactly the kind of person you want around at a party, ya know? lol

And I think I've heard Penn say in a video that at heart, philosophically, he's probably really an Anarcho-Capitalist.

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Lupe Fiasco

in the past:

Tolstoy, Thoreau, Martin Buber

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Surprising that Lupe Fiasco is an anarchist. His Dad was a member of the Black Panthers.

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Groucho replied on Mon, Nov 5 2012 1:53 PM

TronCat:
"My political opinions lean more and more to anarchy. The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power stations. I hope that, encouraged now as patriotism, may remain a habit."

- J.R.R. Tolkien

I don't think Tolkien is advocating free market anarchism - dynamiting factories and power stations most definitely goes against the NAP. My guess would be "anarcho-communism" is what he's hinting at.

An idealist is one who, on noticing that roses smell better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup. -H.L. Mencken
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SkepticalMetal:

I remember someone once said on here (I forgot who it was) that he "would tip my hat to Ayn Rand the writer, but to Ayn Rand the woman, I put my hat back on."

That was me!

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Oh, haha. I kept on thinking it was either you, Clayton, or Groucho, for whatever reason.

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Oscar Wilde

Franz Kafka

Albert Camus

"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world." ~ Ludwig Wittgenstein
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TronCat replied on Mon, Nov 5 2012 10:00 PM

I don't think Tolkien is advocating free market anarchism - dynamiting factories and power stations most definitely goes against the NAP.

Did you even read the line properly? He says the "disgruntled men OF dynamiting factories and power stations" are looking for change. He's not advocating for that. 

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Groucho replied on Mon, Nov 5 2012 10:12 PM

Did you read only half of one sentence?

The most improper job of any man, even saints, is bossing other men. There is only one bright spot and that is the growing habit of disgruntled men of dynamiting factories and power stations. I hope that, encouraged now as patriotism, may remain a habit."

He is saying it's improper for any man to be "bossing" other men, and that the only good thing about it is disgruntled men's habit of dynamiting factories and power stations (those devilish factors of production). He's as red as a baboon's butt.

You seriously don't get that?

An idealist is one who, on noticing that roses smell better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup. -H.L. Mencken
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TronCat replied on Mon, Nov 5 2012 10:26 PM

He's saying that the 'habit' is disgruntlement OF the dynamiting factories and power stations. So they are disgruntled because of the factories and stations themselves, and the 'habit' is wanting something else. 

Tolkien was a gradualist anarchist, like Godwin. 

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Groucho replied on Mon, Nov 5 2012 10:47 PM

When you realize you are in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging.

What is the "bright spot" to which he refers? What does he hope will be encouraged now as patritotism and remain a habit?

Maybe this will help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parse_tree

An idealist is one who, on noticing that roses smell better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup. -H.L. Mencken
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Ron paul?

“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence."
"The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”

http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.org

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TronCat replied on Mon, Nov 5 2012 11:12 PM

 

What is the "bright spot" to which he refers?
 
Men with a disgruntlement of... etc. 
 
What does he hope will be encouraged now as patritotism and remain a habit?
 
Men with a disgruntlement of... etc. 
 
 
Oh, and by the way, characterizing him as being "as red as a baboon's butt" is nonsense. Tolkien was a staunch opponent of communism. 
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gotlucky replied on Mon, Nov 5 2012 11:50 PM

Here is the full letter where TronCat found the quote. Here is a lecture by Jeff Riggenbach titled J.R.R. Tolkien as Libertarian. Interestingly, the letter is actually ambiguous. It can be viewed as either anarcho-communist or anarcho-capitalist. Sadly, I think Riggenbach's case for Tolkien as a libertarian is quite weak, however, the last two or three minutes he cites how Tolkien set up the government of the hobbits, or rather, that there really wasn't one; families sort of governed themselves. Considering there was private property in the shire, and Tolkien seemed to be fond of his hobbit characters, it is quite possible that he was a libertarian and not a communist.

But then again, Heinlein wrote one of the best libertarian novels, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and it is very likely that Heinlein was in fact a socialist. Heinlein was very interested in exploring different ways in which societies might develop, and it is also quite possible that Tolkien had a similar interest. I don't think there is concrete evidence either way.

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