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Best AnCap flag I have seen!

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ChaseCola Posted: Sat, Aug 2 2008 3:17 AM

http://www.threadless.com/profile/289796/spires/blog/266148/Anarcho_capitalist_flag

 "The plans differ; the planners are all alike"

-Bastiat

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I was going to ask about the floral print, but the website already answered it.

 

Here is a rundown of elements:

The split black/color theme is a long time symbol of anarchy, with the color representing the root, or obversely, the intent of anarchy. The line travels upwards and rightwards, meaning economic growth, and a preference for western norms.

The textile/damask pattern ican be seen as symbol of bourgeois prosperity. It was possible after the industrial revolution, for the masses to afford opulent beauty that kings were only able to afford beforehand. It also represents decentralization and the division of labor.

Color gold is a symbol of the gold standard, under which no central authority can rule by means of fiat currency, leading to general peace and prosperity.

Color black represents complete independence, and danger for trespass.

Sea Green is an old color of classical liberalism.

Amaranth is a symbol of the everlasting; in this case, the desire for liberty in the human spirit never dies.

The snake is a symbol of individuality. The phrase "Don't tread on me" comes to mind. The implicit message is that an infringement of my rights will lead to just retribution.

The sun has been seen as a symbol of wisdom and intelligence, and a sunflower growing from gold bars, seems a nice way of expressing how society flourishes from reason, and sound money.

White normally means surrender, but against black, white becomes a symbol for 'only in death do we surrender', 'or live free or die' -- sort of like the pirate's flag.

"Sic semper tyrannis" means "Thus always for tyrants" and is what rebels have historically yelled while killing despots.

The deliberate asymmetry is appropriate because symmetry is a symbol of power generally, and in an anarcho-capitalist society, all power is decentralized.

There is nothing to signify unity or economic class struggle in this flag, or the glory of war or anything signifying state power. The class struggle here is between the thief and the avenged victim; the crook and the honest producer, the politician and the property owner.

Also, one should never have currency signs like "$" to represent capitalism, because the gold standard is universal and transcends national identities and currencies, which are not legitimate, natural market entities.

 

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I wish they were selling the shirt, or the flag for that matter.

 "The plans differ; the planners are all alike"

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solos replied on Sat, Aug 2 2008 4:37 AM

How many people will actually get this? I like the gold-leaf floral bourgeois idea so maybe anarcho-capitalism should create a custom one that can be recognized.

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This thing just evokes Jamaica.

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Zlatko replied on Sat, Aug 2 2008 6:28 AM

Too cluttered for my taste. A symbol needs to be realtively simple to be effective (if not in form, at least in content). But any effort to advance capitalism is delightful to see.

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No Thanks; the term Anarcho-Capitalism seems to be losing it's meaning & usefulness, imo. 

I would take a flag, for say, apolitical libertarianism, as I do not think such a flag and/or symbol has been made for apolitical libertarianism.

I also that this flag looks like it's walking to the finish line after crashing it's bobsled; just too busy.  Simplifying it by taking one or two symbols out, maybe the floral pattern, would help a lot. 

The overall design is okay, but not done well; the green stripe just sticks out like a sore thumb.

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It's a bit too busy for my taste. But just the golden snake on a black background would be great.
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Bostwick replied on Sat, Aug 2 2008 10:25 PM

The Gadsden is pretty popular for ancaps.

 

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What's an "Ancap?"

 

 

Here's a good flag,

 

 

End it here.

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Niccolò, Ancap is short for Anarchist-Capitalist or Anarcho-Capitalist.

I am an eklektarchist not an anarchist.

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fsk replied on Mon, Aug 4 2008 8:42 AM

ChaseCola:

I wish they were selling the shirt, or the flag for that matter.

I thought about starting a T-Shirt business.  It's very feasible.  You can buy a T-Shirt burning machine for $1500 and blank T-Shirts cost $2-$3 each in bulk.  If you figure that people will pay $10, and you work off-the-books, then it's very economically feasible.

I have my own blog at FSK's Guide to Reality. Let me know if you like it.

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ryanpatgray:

Niccolò, Ancap is short for Anarchist-Capitalist or Anarcho-Capitalist.

Seems like a grose oxymoron.

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Niccolò:

ryanpatgray:

Niccolò, Ancap is short for Anarchist-Capitalist or Anarcho-Capitalist.

Seems like a grose oxymoron.

 

Huh? Hmm

 

Was it not Rothbard who said "Capitalism is the fullest expression of anarchism"?

Austrians do it a priori

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Niccolò replied on Mon, Aug 4 2008 10:50 AM

MatthewWilliam:

Huh? Hmm

 

Was it not Rothbard who said "Capitalism is the fullest expression of anarchism"?

Really? The same system that everyone considers the system of the People's Republic of China, the United States, Europe, and every other modernized country in the world? Or the system that was originally coined as a pejorative for the British Empire or Bismarck's regime?

 

When exactly was capitalism equated to free-market anyways? Sounds a little apologetic... Outside of the Mises Institute it seems rather clear what capitalism is. Why is that?

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But capitalism and anarchism arn't complete opposites, right?

Austrians do it a priori

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fsk replied on Mon, Aug 4 2008 11:32 AM

MatthewWilliam:
But capitalism and anarchism arn't complete opposites, right?

We've had this debate before.  It boils down to "What is your definition of 'capitalism'?"  If you define "capitalism" as "ideal perfected free market", then they're equivalent.  If you define "capitalism" as "the economic and political system in place right now", then capitalism and market anarchism are nearly complete opposites.

In the present, I have certain limited freedom to start my own business, but there are lots of restrictions.  (taxes, regulations, inability to raise capital, corporate welfare for my competitors, etc.)

I have my own blog at FSK's Guide to Reality. Let me know if you like it.

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fsk:

I thought about starting a T-Shirt business.  It's very feasible.  You can buy a T-Shirt burning machine for $1500 and blank T-Shirts cost $2-$3 each in bulk.  If you figure that people will pay $10, and you work off-the-books, then it's very economically feasible.

What makes it feasible is not only how much it costs you, but how much are people willing to pay for it, which will depend on the current prices in the market, so I suggest you take a look at what's out there to begin with. Plenty of free subscription websites, to complement the revenue from advirtsement, work with such businsesses to sell t-shirts, cups and other products stamped with the website logos or whatever. That's a pretty big business already; I think designing images for those t-shirts is where the big money is. ;)

Equality before the law and material equality are not only different but are in conflict with each other; and we can achieve either one or the other, but not both at the same time. -- F. A. Hayek in The Constitution of Liberty

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fsk replied on Mon, Aug 4 2008 11:46 AM

BlackSheep:
I think designing images for those t-shirts is where the big money is. ;)

That is a problem for someone who's a "market anarchist".  I'm not going to copyright or trademark my T-Shirt designs!

The problem is matching buyers and sellers.  I might do that on the side in addition to other business ideas.

I have my own blog at FSK's Guide to Reality. Let me know if you like it.

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Niccolò:

MatthewWilliam:

Huh? Hmm

 

Was it not Rothbard who said "Capitalism is the fullest expression of anarchism"?

When exactly was capitalism equated to free-market anyways? Sounds a little apologetic... Outside of the Mises Institute it seems rather clear what capitalism is. Why is that?



I really don't see where the confusion lies other than the equation of Capitalism = Free Market, which I do not find true at all.  The Free-Market would certaintly allow capitalism to exist & take place (as long as it is not fullly out-competed), but it would also allow other system's to co-exist, as long as the pracitioners of the various system's did not seek to enforce their system over everyone else.

 

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fsk:
We've had this debate before.  It boils down to "What is your definition of 'capitalism'?"  If you define "capitalism" as "ideal perfected free market", then they're equivalent.  If you define "capitalism" as "the economic and political system in place right now", then capitalism and market anarchism are nearly complete opposites.

Exactly, it is like the old "You say tomato, I say tomato" debate. Only this is "You say capitalism, I say free market." I don't care how you pronounce the word liberty I only care that you support it. If you are an Objectivist I will tell you I support Capitalism. If you are on the Libertarian Left I will tell you I support freedom of association in all things. I don't care what language you choose to use. We are allies - we should not split over mere terminology. If you are unfamiliar with what I mean by "You say tomato, I say tomato." Paste in this URL: http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=698070

I am an eklektarchist not an anarchist.

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MatthewWilliam:

But capitalism and anarchism arn't complete opposites, right?

Well, I think they are.

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I see what you mean, Niccolo.

 

Austrians do it a priori

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MacFall replied on Thu, Aug 7 2008 6:56 PM

The flag in the OP is too busy to be effective. I like the market anarchist Gadsden glag personally.

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spires replied on Thu, Aug 7 2008 8:54 PM

I designed that. It works great as a tshirt as somebody mentioned. I wanted to fit lots of history and symbolism into the flag. It may be too busy this way, but would hate to have a sterile, simple looking flag, either. I think personally, that a damask pattern really sums up lots of the ideas associated with market anarchy.

Symbolically, I like gold, but aesthetically, I hate the color. I wish I could use brand the movement with colors that symbolize mankind outgrowing the natural world, really artificial colors that do not correlate to what are basically biological symbols (red as life, because blood is red). 

Market anarchy is apolitical, and the flag needs to be apolitical. It can't be striking or evoke some cheesy sense of unjustified pride. It needs to be a product, for it to make sense. It needs almost to be campy.

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Bostwick replied on Thu, Aug 7 2008 10:47 PM

Niccolò:

What's an "Ancap?"

 

 

Here's a good flag,

 

 

End it here.

The problem with that is that a lot of the people who use it are a lot worse than the "status quo". You want to talk about apologizing?

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spires:

I designed that. It works great as a tshirt as somebody mentioned. I wanted to fit lots of history and symbolism into the flag. It may be too busy this way, but would hate to have a sterile, simple looking flag, either. I think personally, that a damask pattern really sums up lots of the ideas associated with market anarchy.

Symbolically, I like gold, but aesthetically, I hate the color. I wish I could use brand the movement with colors that symbolize mankind outgrowing the natural world, really artificial colors that do not correlate to what are basically biological symbols (red as life, because blood is red). 

Market anarchy is apolitical, and the flag needs to be apolitical. It can't be striking or evoke some cheesy sense of unjustified pride. It needs to be a product, for it to make sense. It needs almost to be campy.

can i buy the shirt? i need the shirtStick out tongue

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MacFall:

The flag in the OP is too busy to be effective. I like the market anarchist Gadsden glag personally.

Me as well.  Subtle, and to the point.

 

Market anarchist, Linux geek, aspiring Perl hacker, and student of the neo-Aristotelians, the classical individualist anarchists, and the Austrian school.

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MacFall replied on Fri, Aug 8 2008 7:12 AM

...glag? O_o

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spires replied on Fri, Aug 8 2008 9:27 AM

It would to nice to create and sell. Haven't ran the numbers. Although this community represents a fraction of the ancaps out there, the reaction here might be typical. I have had a few people who really loved the design, but not so many to justify a run.

The shirt would have black flocking as the damask pattern, on gold, and would run all the way up to the neck. It would be a great shirt. 

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spires replied on Fri, Aug 8 2008 9:33 AM

Here it is as a shirt.

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