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This Forum Is Closing, Austrianforum.com Is Back Open

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Blake,

Can you make me a mod on the Austrain forum?

Wow. I'm going back to where it started. I think I'm the only regular poster here who was a member of the old forum.

 

The atoms tell the atoms so, for I never was or will but atoms forevermore be.

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AJ replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 5:47 AM
How long until this forum closes, and will the posts be archived?
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Should we wait to see if our users can be ported over, or create new users over there?

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Conza88 replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 8:16 AM

Sigh.

So Austrianforum.com - what is amusing to me anyway is the open acknowledgement of going backwards.

Even the name alone.. straight up cuts down the entire edifice of liberty. Because unless it's specifically an austrian economics qua economics forum, then the name makes no sense...  where is the libertarianism? Eh?

FYI I'm particularly positive a certain individual at the institute has no qualms regarding the above. I'd also be interested to see if they're actually the one who gave the approval.

In any case, glad something is being done... but I recoil at the announcement/process. Surely one would have tested, seen if it's possible prior to any formal announcement... so there is no 'hanging' in the balance of sorts. Either content can be archived, and usernames imported or not. Should have probably determined that before hand?

Hopefully the new forum takes off organically with some good discussions... and doesn't splinter off into irrelevancy. Hopefully finally someone will put together a popular, go-to austro-libertarian forum that is well run, and not decrepit. A popular active mises chat has been needed for yearssss, and nothing was ever fostered to develop it. Hopefully this is an actual turning point - given the outsourcing. yes

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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Can anyone tell me the reason this forum is closing? What were the "problems" mentioned?

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Al_gore, try looking to the right for the 5 latest posts. Then click the "View New Content" button on the top right nav. That should give you everything that you are looking for. And there are only 5 basic categories for that forum. The rest are just administrative.

AJ, yes this forum will be archived one way or another.

Lady Saiga, go ahead and create a new user there.

Conza88, the problem is this software. It doesn't convert easily to the most popular boards. I have been trying for a while to convert it. I haven't given up and this forum will be archived in some way. If there is another category you would like to see on that forum that would represent libertarianism better I'll be happy to implement it.

To all, the chat there will be expanded. Glad everyone likes it.

austrianforum.com is for everyone here. I want to make it what you want. Help me help you. I need constructive criticism.

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Jargon replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 8:54 AM

Can you just make austrianforum one subsection only, so it mimics the active topics layout on this website?

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Without having the same categories you will struggle to migrate all the posts across. It may be better ot just create exactly the same categories to start with and once you have migrated all the data across and all the user accounts, then look at closing this site down.

I think it would be unwise to talk about shutting this forum down without actually having moved the data across, i mean if we miss a weeks worth of posts or something not the end of the world. But to think you could migrate users across to the new user forum without migrating the content and user list is a sure way to kill the community. You can't realy expect everyone to recreate their accounts at the other end.

Are you are a dba or have knowledge with DB because if you don't, then it might be a good to find a DBA who could do the work.

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I do work with DBs but I am not a DBA. I would love to have one help with this. But it is going to cost a whole lot to make that happen. If I get enough donations over there I'll pay to have the database converted.

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Unforunately I work in IT and as a result am relatively poor. But i am not a DBA either or I would offer to do it for nothing.

But if the choice was to have this forum in its current state or force everyone over to a new forum with none of the content and user accounts, I think i would pick staying with this forum. Only because i know how people will just not bother to sign up to the new forum. Will that new forum be integrated in to the mises.org website or is the plan to close the forum aspect on mises.org and haev an independent one elsewhere ?

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Anton replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 10:33 AM

What is wrong with this forum?

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There is no quote function available on the reply toolbars and the text editor for posting comments can be problematic at times. There is also no browser spell check unless you click source. There is no embed option on the toolbar. When someone posts a question thread and it goes to multiple pages the page numbers do not match up with the content when posts have been marked as questions and you end up having to click on the page numbers to go to the end.

loads of minor annoyances.

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gotlucky replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 10:38 AM

I agree with Conza about the name of the forum. It's not a big deal, but the name is far too specific for libertarianism in general. Something with the word "libertarian" or "voluntary" makes more sense. I doubt the name of the forum is a high priority, but I thought I would mention it.

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Autolykos replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 10:54 AM

gotlucky:
I agree with Conza about the name of the forum. It's not a big deal, but the name is far too specific for libertarianism in general. Something with the word "libertarian" or "voluntary" makes more sense. I doubt the name of the forum is a high priority, but I thought I would mention it.

You mean like voluntaryism.freeforums.org? cheeky

</shamelessplug>

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Autolykos replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 10:55 AM

Anyways, I haven't been active in here lately (the past week or two IIRC), but I'm glad I caught this announcement. I'm very sorry to see that this forum is being closed down. There's a ton of excellent material here, and it would be quite a shame for it to all go down the memory hole. If there's any way I can assist in preserving the forum posts, let me know.

EDIT: What kind of timetable can we expect for closing down the forum, Blake?

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gotlucky replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 10:56 AM

What an excellent name!

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Autolykos replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 10:56 AM

Haha why thank you! cheeky

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Fephisto replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 12:51 PM

*insert yet another plug for Autolykos' forum*

 

*cough* look at my sig *cough*

 

Also, Physiocrat, I was an austrianforum member a long time ago too.  You guys converted me from a Friedmanite moderate to the horrible mess I am today!  :P

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Anton replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 12:57 PM

Jack Roberts:

There is no quote function available on the reply toolbars and the text editor for posting comments can be problematic at times. There is also no browser spell check unless you click source. There is no embed option on the toolbar. When someone posts a question thread and it goes to multiple pages the page numbers do not match up with the content when posts have been marked as questions and you end up having to click on the page numbers to go to the end.

loads of minor annoyances.

 

Wow, I guess I've just got used to it) Anyway, I will miss this forum. I have never been a regular or active contributor here but I liked its... charm.

 

By the way, I'm no technician so pardon me for apparently stupid question:  Is it possible to integrate the new forum into mises.org preserving the main design theme? (Bastiat circle seems to be a completely different project despite the fact it's just one subcathegory of the site, and so does the new forum).

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Wheylous replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 1:06 PM

So when will the final shutting down come?

I would like to know whether I can get my LibertyHQ forums up in time :)

But wait, guys, if we lose these forums, we lose our jobs. We can UNIONIZE and prevent the shutting down of the forums!

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gotlucky replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 1:13 PM

*Ahem* Hostess *ahem*

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I completely forgot about you Fephisto. You never know Student, Donny with an A, Len Budney, Inquisitor or even Nathyn might return!

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z1235 replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 1:36 PM

I can not believe that the Mises Institute is making this decision. Is there anybody managing the institute? Is there no money to fix/create a barely functioning forum? How much could this possibly cost? Is there no one understanding the significance of a forum for spreading ideas? Where is my donation money going to? 

This is ridiculous.

 

 

 

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Conza88:
So Austrianforum.com - what is amusing to me anyway is the open acknowledgement of going backwards.

Conza I thought you of all people would be happy with the new forum...or at least the structure...

 

z1235:
I can not believe that the Mises Institute is making this decision. Is there anybody managing the institute? Is there no money to fix/create a barely functioning forum? How much could this possibly cost?

I'd say it's a lot less to do with cost and a lot more to do with apathy...or have you forgotten..

 

z1235:
Is there no one understanding the significance of a forum for spreading ideas?

See above.

 

z1235:
Where is my donation money going to?

There's this, but ultimately I'd say that's a great question to ask the Institute.

 

z1235:
This is ridiculous.

True, but it could be much worse.  Thank Blake for largely single-handedly keeping a Mises Community online at all.

 

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Malachi replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 7:24 PM
Well live chat will still be up, and I need an admin to tell me if the groups will remain
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Clayton replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 8:18 PM

I'll not be joining the Austrianforums. I think we need to create a de novo community. The name is poor, as pointed out. The forum software is nothing better than can be found with any of these free sites. Autolykos has a viable alternative.

JJ, you seem to know Blake but I've never seen him around until he pops up to inform us that the forums are closing and we're all moving back to his site which is otherwise dead. I don't want to seem sour, but I don't see any reason that he should be the "heir" of this forum.

Seems to me that those who have been participating and active - including some who have left out of sheer frustration - should be the core. To that end, I would like to see a migration to forum run by somebody that cares. Someone who is passionate about being THE Mises discussion forum on the Internet.

Clayton -

http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.com
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AJ replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 8:28 PM

Given the expected user attrition and all the logistical difficulties, plus no longer enjoying the network effect of being hosted on mises.org, I'd rather just see these forums continue as is - with all their flaws - instead of seeing them "transitioned" elsewhere. It would not be terribly surprising if this move, however well-intentioned, effectively killed off most of this community, and because of the off-site hosting it is almost guaranteed to slow new membership to a trickle. 

I'll be joining whichever forum has the most members. If the community splits off into several forums, I might join several, but such a "balkanization" would probably decimate the community.

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Anenome replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 8:58 PM

AJ: true. It's a deathknell.

Perhaps the Voluntaryism forums have the best chance, being setup and run by the most active of us:

http://voluntaryism.freeforums.org/

 

 

Autarchy: rule of the self by the self; the act of self ruling.
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Marko replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 9:24 PM

I aggree with AJ. Even if everyone makes the transition, and the new forum turns out to be excellent from the technical point of view, with off-site hosting the rate at which current posters retire is likely to exceed the rate at which new ones replace them. If they no longer want us here I am not one for begging them to, but let's be realistic about what is it they're doing to us here. This could easily devastate the community they've helped bring together. (Albeit we could thereafter potentially rebuild in the very long term under more competent (ie interested) leadership.)

Also realistically, without the connection to mises.org Blake's forum is just another would-be successor out there, albeit possibly one with an archive from this old forum. 

The way I see it, Blake has the advantage of sanction from the Institute which gives him acess to this forum's database. Autolykos on the other hand has the advantage of being someone we know, and can trust is committed. I agree with Clayton, that if I'm going to make this jump it helps to know I'm moving someplace that is ran by people who are just as desperate for this forum to continue (in some form) as I am. I understand Blake ran the predecessor forum so he is kinda one of us, but I'm sorry, I don't know him. Perhaps the first thing Blake can do is invite someone I do know to work with him, or to monitor what he is doing from the inside.

Also I see us splintering into several successor forums as the biggest threat to what (little) may be salvaged from this situation. Imagine JJ and Autolykos each leading their own exodus of posters to two seperate destinations? Something like that could be a deathknell. Maybe the two should do a Molotov-Ribbentrop and see if they can't endorse one and the same project?

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Wheylous replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 9:27 PM

see if they can't endorse one and the same project?

You mean like LibertyHQ?

:D

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Neodoxy replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 9:35 PM

1. I agree wholly with all the positive stuff said about these forums. I don't know what it was about this place but by and large the quality of discussion here was absolutely OUT OF THIS WORLD.

2. Well we're going to see the effect of a breakup of an effective monopoly and the advent of competition. What'll it be folks? Wheylous' site, the voluntaryism forums, or Austrian forums? You've gotta make up your minds. VR and its boards are also in the mix in a way.

3. I myself will be doing everything that I can to make the Austrian Forums as good as they possibly can be. I heavily encourage all of you to join me there. I think that it's good software, I quite like the chat, it will hopefully have the old material here, and it will be linked from mises.org (presumably)

4. I'm extremely glad that VR got off the ground before this happened. I think that will be the most lasting thing to come out of the forums as they are now.

5. To John James: Please try to find a way to back up your materials lists. Those are important.

At last those coming came and they never looked back With blinding stars in their eyes but all they saw was black...
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abskebabs replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 9:45 PM

I think we need to create a de novo community. The name is poor, as pointed out.

AJ and Clayton have given me an idea. Why not start a new forum called "Misesforum" or something like that. That way though you won't have the network effect from being linked to this site but at least with the word association could be SEO ranked well enough to draw in interested new users just via the word association (hopefully). Secondly, there is no such forum, so you could use whatever seems best and not be stuck with opportunity costs distorted by past, inherited infrastructure. Finally, a few of us who are dedicated to this community could start this.

 

I say this though I do realise I am comparatively infrequent in my posting here to many of you guys...

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gotlucky replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 10:03 PM

Neodoxy:

1. I agree wholly with all the positive stuff said about these forums. I don't know what it was about this place but by and large the quality of discussion here was absolutely OUT OF THIS WORLD.

Agreed!

Neodoxy:

2. Well we're going to see the effect of a breakup of an effective monopoly and the advent of competition. What'll it be folks? Wheylous' site, the voluntaryism forums, or Austrian forums? You've gotta make up your minds. VR and its boards are also in the mix in a way.

3. I myself will be doing everything that I can to make the Austrian Forums as good as they possibly can be. I heavily encourage all of you to join me there. I think that it's good software, I quite like the chat, it will hopefully have the old material here, and it will be linked from mises.org (presumably)

I'm going to try and participate in as many of them as possible. Not only do I enjoy talking with many of the well established members here, but there will be newbies at all of these sites, and I don't think we should cut ourselves off from them just for the sake of having one "home".

Neodoxy:

4. I'm extremely glad that VR got off the ground before this happened. I think that will be the most lasting thing to come out of the forums as they are now.

VR is awesome. Period.

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Well i hope we dont lose anyone..

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Wheylous replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 10:28 PM

Dammit guys, I thought we had made sure Kelvin couldn't see this thread.

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HabbaBabba replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 10:37 PM

Related?

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Clayton replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 10:52 PM

Yes. View Lew's video on the Mises front page. 

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Clayton replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 11:28 PM

OK, after getting some info from a helpful person, I will tone down my view on austrianforums. Fortunately, this move will preserve the threads as they exist on mises.org.

Here's my recommendation to folks:

1) Everyone, just create an account on Austrianforums. If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. But you won't know if you like it if you never try it.

2) I recommend the Voluntaryism forums to all those interested in the VR blog - we really want to create a "buzz" center based on Voluntaryism + AE-centric ideas

3) I also recommend the LibertyHQ forums to your attention. Wheylous is a promising upstart (spoken lovingly), and I foresee a great future for LibertyHQ, I think it hits a real niche between the Econ-nerd mises.org and the drab capital-L libertarian establishment (Cato types). Keep up the work, Wheylous!

By using the same username/password, you can have access to all three forums with no additional effort. If one turns out to be your favorite, why post there, and lurk on the others. Or whatever.

The Internet is a big place and there's room for all!

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*Nielsio's V for Voluntary I think also deserves an honorable mention here... he's really developed thriving reddits and his forums have their own dedicated followers

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DanielMuff replied on Wed, Dec 12 2012 11:34 PM

I hope that the new CTO builds an API for the content on mises.org. You may ask, "why?" Overall, the API would serve content in order to help distribute the content hosted on mises.org. But that question is for developers to answer by building products that use the API. (No, RSS is not good enough.)

P.S. Please, please, please, add the Circle Bastiat to list of content that can be emailed to my emailed account. I have stopped reading the blog because I now have how to remember to go to the web address. I just eant it sent to my email inbox.

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AJ replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 8:57 AM
Well now that I've had a few more beers, I'm feeling optimistic: maybe we'll get enough new users that all three forums will be overflowing and they'll have to specialize. Now to the matter of how to pull this off...

Perhaps the forum admins and posters will compete to create the best communities with the most usable interfaces and highest quality of argument, best signal-to-noise ratio, most welcoming to newbies and opponents, most all-round pleasure to debate in, greatest learning experience, etc. Perhaps through competition we can create an even better product, even as we individually simply strive to make ourselves understood in the most effective manner possible.

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