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This Forum Is Closing, Austrianforum.com Is Back Open

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Conza88 replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 9:11 AM

John James:
Conza I thought you of all people would be happy with the new forum...or at least the structure...

Well it subsequently became the structure when I pointed that out. What I also just mentioned; "I think starting out, apparently it is best to keep the number of forums at a minimum - then branch out as things increase. Folks only come here to specifically discuss economic, or political philosophy - not so much the 'other' forums/issues.. Something to be mindful of perhaps?"

The other is the name. Forums are either "austrian forum" or "voluntaryism" specific... they openly neglect a sphere of thought. Something "Austro-Libertarian"... or along those lines encapsulates both.

Marketing wise needs to address a sense of community, plus a general unifying theme. Some reference to Mises/Libertarianism of old perhaps.
 

Margit von Mises, Friedrich von Hayek, Ludwig von Mises

  • Between 1960 and 1964, the Thursday seminar was held at Room 32, Gallatin House, 6 Washington Square North, a building with two white lions at the entrance. The course continued until 1969. After each session, Mises and many of the students gathered at a nearby Childs’ restaurant for refreshments and further discussion.

    Mises made many observations during his lectures. For example: “You say the secret is selling something above cost. But the situation is really very different. The problem is to produce something for which consumers are willing to pay above cost…Prices are like the snows of last winter. They come, but at the moment we catch them, they are already something of the past…Education can only hand down what was present in the old generation. The innovator cannot be educated. There is no school for the inventor…Saints don’t usually serve in the offices of foreign exchange controls.”

    Among those who attended year after year: Murray N. Rothbard, Israel Kirzner, Bettina Bien Greaves, Percy L. Greaves Jr., Ralph Raico, and George Reisman.


etc. *shrugs*, or some other historical occassion that can kind of be tied into as as being relevent / similar to this forum in todays world. Ultimately, why this forum, and not some other? is what needs to be pondered.. *another shrug*.

John James:
True, but it could be much worse.  Thank Blake for largely single-handedly keeping a Mises Community online at all.

Fair enough indeed.
 

Ron Paul is for self-government when compared to the Constitution. He's an anarcho-capitalist. Proof.
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Wheylous replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 9:23 AM

Perhaps the forum admins and posters will compete to create the best communities with the most usable interfaces and highest quality of argument, best signal-to-noise ratio, most welcoming to newbies and opponents, most all-round pleasure to debate in, greatest learning experience, etc. Perhaps through competition we can create an even better product, even as we individually simply strive to make ourselves understood in the most effective manner possible.

LOL YOU WIT YOU'RE FREE MARKET MAGIC

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Marko replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 1:25 PM

Well now that I've had a few more beers, I'm feeling optimistic: maybe we'll get enough new users that all three forums will be overflowing and they'll have to specialize. Now to the matter of how to pull this off...


Yea I'll translate that: Well now that I've worked up a buzz and I can't think straight, I'm feeling optimistic...  It tells you all you need to know.

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Marko replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 1:30 PM

2. Well we're going to see the effect of a breakup of an effective monopoly and the advent of competition. What'll it be folks? Wheylous' site, the voluntaryism forums, or Austrian forums? You've gotta make up your minds.


It's a competition, but it's not exactly as if everyone was taking off from the same starting line. It's in effect more like LvMI doing a fair bit to try to pick out the winner, by giving extra privilege to one of the would-be successors. Only one of the forums gets a shot at importing the old posts.

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Marko replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 1:39 PM

Perhaps the forum admins and posters will compete to create the best communities with the most usable interfaces and highest quality of argument, best signal-to-noise ratio, most welcoming to newbies and opponents, most all-round pleasure to debate in, greatest learning experience, etc. Perhaps through competition we can create an even better product, even as we individually simply strive to make ourselves understood in the most effective manner possible.


Perhaps only one person gets a shot at importing all the content and user accounts from the present forum, and if just the one person fails we'll be starting from a much more miserable position than we are in now, and will in the short and medium term have a much worse forum experience. Or else this person succeeds and then his community is all but certain to prevail over the others, regardless of his signal-to-noise, pleasure, usable inerface and what have you.

If the powers that be are inclined to dump us then there is nothing we can do, but if they also claim to be sincerely interested in seeing a good successor forum to rise for us, then why not export this content and offer it up to everyone out there to try to integrate with their forums, not just Blake? Just upload it somewhere and let the forum with the most tech-savy admin win?

I mean if they're dumping us why try to determine who adopts us? This isn't how abandonment works.

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Autolykos replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 7:33 PM

I love how there still hasn't been any timetable given...

The keyboard is mightier than the gun.

Non parit potestas ipsius auctoritatem.

Voluntaryism Forum

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Bert replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 7:35 PM

I still don't know what's going on or where to go.

I had always been impressed by the fact that there are a surprising number of individuals who never use their minds if they can avoid it, and an equal number who do use their minds, but in an amazingly stupid way. - Carl Jung, Man and His Symbols
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Neodoxy replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 7:58 PM

"I love how there still hasn't been any timetable given..."

They can't even CLOSE these forums properly...

At last those coming came and they never looked back With blinding stars in their eyes but all they saw was black...
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Well gentlemen,

If I don't make it to the other side - it's been an honor

"As in a kaleidoscope, the constellation of forces operating in the system as a whole is ever changing." - Ludwig Lachmann

"When A Man Dies A World Goes Out of Existence"  - GLS Shackle

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gotlucky replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 10:09 PM

Vive, I hope you can join at least one of the forums. I hope things go well whatever may happen.

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Neodoxy replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 10:54 PM

"Well gentlemen,

If I don't make it to the other side - it's been an honor"

God this whole thing is so sad.

Anyway Vive, it has been an honor indeed, although I do sincerely hope that you do make it to the other side.

At last those coming came and they never looked back With blinding stars in their eyes but all they saw was black...
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AJ replied on Thu, Dec 13 2012 11:29 PM
Marko:

Well now that I've had a few more beers, I'm feeling optimistic: maybe we'll get enough new users that all three forums will be overflowing and they'll have to specialize. Now to the matter of how to pull this off...


Yea I'll translate that: Well now that I've worked up a buzz and I can't think straight, I'm feeling optimistic...  It tells you all you need to know.

Hey man, I pontificate better after a few drinks.
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Just upload it somewhere and let the forum with the most tech-savy admin win?

The whole database could be screenscraped, were not the forum so flaky under load. Besides, that may be seen as a DOS attack.

The Voluntaryist Reader - read, comment, post your own.
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Merlin replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 3:14 AM

vive la insurrection:

Well gentlemen,

If I don't make it to the other side - it's been an honor

 

Same here. What a ride it has been!

The Regression theorem is a memetic equivalent of the Theory of Evolution. To say that the former precludes the free emergence of fiat currencies makes no more sense that to hold that the latter precludes the natural emergence of multicellular organisms.
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Lady Saiga replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 12:01 PM

I do think it'd be nice if some specialization emerged with these newer fora.  I think it's natural for that to happen, a bit.  And I think in the end, it'll be better to diversify and have options. 

I've joined Voluntaryism and LibertyHQ as of now, but honestly not sure how many different places I'll be going all in a day of web surfing...

Not, so far, all that tempted to join the Austrian Forum.  Not just because I'm only slightly interested in economics, but also because I strongly suspect that the trolls will be attracted to the main line of march, the one attached to the Mises name.  I anticipate Autolykos at least as being relatively hard on trolling, which I like.  Though I begin to think we finally lost our Canadian friend?

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h.k. replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 12:11 PM

Wow this is a really stupid idea, why can't this place just stay open? The forum is what separates mises.org from other Austrian Libertarian websites.

 

I think this is a terrible move, I hope some successor comes out on top soon. This whole fiasco is annoying

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I don't think I'd last five minutes under the totalitarian rule of Autolykos. This whole shebang is turning out like post-1917 Russia, with one or more factions doomed to be purged by whomever manages to maneuver themselves into the position of General Secretary. sad 

And don't think any of you Austrians are safe either; it'll be an icepick through the ear for John James in a Mexico City brothel, and 70 years breaking rocks for Smiling Dave on the Siberian tundra.

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Lady Saiga replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 12:26 PM
That's not a fair gripe imo. No maneuvering needed when you own the forum.
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That's not a fair gripe imo. No maneuvering needed when you own the forum.

'Owning', huh? Sounds like Kulak talk to me. Just watch your back is all I'm saying. The ears have walls... or something like that.

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Lady Saiga replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 12:49 PM

I just think that's a funny complaint coming from a libertarian.  These are voluntary communities.  You don't like the way they're shaping up?  Don't complain!  Don't join.  Start your own.  "Cranks and Odd Numbers for Liberty" or something.  "Vitriol is the spice of political philosophy" can be your motto.  I'd probably join.  Sounds fun.

It's just you seem to be accusing these guys of having no ability to be fair administrators before they've tried, and condemning them for not setting up the environment you'd potentially enjoy.  They didn't ask permission, and they didn't take anything away from anybody.

 

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Jeeez, it was a joke. Get a grip.

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I'm staying right here. They'll have to drag me out.

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It's easy to refute an argument if you first misrepresent it. William Keizer

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"Jeeez, it was a joke. Get a grip."

I got it.

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Cortes replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 2:22 PM

I really liked the idea behind this forum software, but too much of the features didn't really work all that well. 

I welcome the change to the new boards.

 

If you can't eventually merge all the posts, make an effort to save the archives. There is too much good stuff here to lose.

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hashem replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 2:34 PM

h.k.:
Wow this is a really stupid idea, why can't this place just stay open? The forum is what separates mises.org from other Austrian Libertarian websites. I think this is a terrible move

In defense of Mises.org, forums are bleeding edge, state of the art technology, hardly accessible to all but the most advanced, well funded organizations. Mises.org just started a few months ago, so they're just beginning to get the hang of this new "internet" thing and they probably have no resources to speak of. We should thank the gods Mises.org even managed to stumble upon the rare and luxurious concept of web forums and manage to implement one for as long as they did. Let's give them a break here, really.

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect. —Mark Twain
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gotlucky replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 2:47 PM

Please, hashem, tell us how you really feel...

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hashem replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 2:51 PM

I feel like this should be an episode of History's Greatest Blunders. There isn't a word to describe the staggering incompetence of whomever called the shot to end these forums. In all seriousness, a high schooler can fund and manage a forum. High schoolers DO, that's how the first intellectual forum I ever used worked. This is perfectly outrageous.

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect. —Mark Twain
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Cortes replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 3:32 PM

Maybe one of the reasons they're abandoning this is because this software itself is abandonware.

I've never seen any other message boards with this kind of framework. It seems complex and overly costly to support and doesn't even apparently function as intended. Basically it seems over-engineered when there are more streamlined forum types like ipboard who have better support and are easier to code for.

 

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Student replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 3:45 PM

Gentleman, it's been an honor playing with you.

Ambition is a dream with a V8 engine - Elvis Presley

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Clayton replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 3:54 PM

+1 Cortes nailed it. Abandonware... new vocab word, thanks!!

Clayton -

http://voluntaryistreader.wordpress.com
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cporter replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 5:12 PM

Cortes:
Maybe one of the reasons they're abandoning this is because this software itself is abandonware.

I've never seen any other message boards with this kind of framework. It seems complex and overly costly to support and doesn't even apparently function as intended. Basically it seems over-engineered when there are more streamlined forum types like ipboard who have better support and are easier to code for.

I think they basically just don't have their shit together enough to create solutions.

A while ago, at what seemed to be the height of the Institute's interest in fixing these forums, I joined their dev group and offered to fix the forum problem (I'm a marketer who owns/operates a multitude of websites for a living, including a couple forums). My offer was completely ignored - not even a "no thanks" reply. They don't seem able to utilize the free resources available to them (i.e. us) in any effective way, so they've

I believe closing these forums is a serious mistake and I am sad to see them go. They are a great resource for liberty.

Blake, if you're still reading this thread I would love to get a dump of the DB from these forums. I have no plans on starting a forum of my own, but it would be a great shame if the information here were to be lost forever. A second, independent copy out and about can only be a good thing imo.

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I recall the old Austrian forum with some fondness. This site isn't very user-friendly from an admin POV and hopefully the transition will see a technical improvement.

 

Freedom of markets is positively correlated with the degree of evolution in any society...

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Clayton:
+1 Cortes nailed it. Abandonware... new vocab word, thanks!!

Wikipedia is still open...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware

wink

 

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Agree with hashem. I cannot comprehend the reason for closing these forums. Yeah, the software is a bit clunky, but it isn't THAT bad. It didn't drive me away. This is the forum I visit the most! Is it costing them too much money or something?

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h.k. replied on Fri, Dec 14 2012 11:04 PM

cporter:

Cortes:
Maybe one of the reasons they're abandoning this is because this software itself is abandonware.

I've never seen any other message boards with this kind of framework. It seems complex and overly costly to support and doesn't even apparently function as intended. Basically it seems over-engineered when there are more streamlined forum types like ipboard who have better support and are easier to code for.

I think they basically just don't have their shit together enough to create solutions.

A while ago, at what seemed to be the height of the Institute's interest in fixing these forums, I joined their dev group and offered to fix the forum problem (I'm a marketer who owns/operates a multitude of websites for a living, including a couple forums). My offer was completely ignored - not even a "no thanks" reply. They don't seem able to utilize the free resources available to them (i.e. us) in any effective way, so they've

I believe closing these forums is a serious mistake and I am sad to see them go. They are a great resource for liberty.

Blake, if you're still reading this thread I would love to get a dump of the DB from these forums. I have no plans on starting a forum of my own, but it would be a great shame if the information here were to be lost forever. A second, independent copy out and about can only be a good thing imo.

 

 

Yes that is my conclusion as well. Mises.org doesn't understand or seem to care to be honest. Unless it is quite expensive to run this forum, there's really no excuse.

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Thanks for the kind words,

I'll probably be around in some way or another but in probably a more limited setting.  It would be tough to just not associate with this forum when I get into a social science / politics kick. From the sound of it, I'll probably be on the Austrianforum.org or whatever it's called. - maybe autoloykos's site if I feel the need to join more than 1 forum.

either way, it's good to have the few threads out here to let us know where we are all planning to go

"As in a kaleidoscope, the constellation of forces operating in the system as a whole is ever changing." - Ludwig Lachmann

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This forum software is not that bad. Its nice and simple

Kelvin Silva:

The quote function isnt so bad

“Since people are concerned that ‘X’ will not be provided, ‘X’ will naturally be provided by those who are concerned by its absence."
"The sweetest of minds can harbor the harshest of men.”

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Fephisto replied on Sat, Dec 15 2012 8:34 AM

I was hoping when I made another forum that it would push mises.org a little bit more/act as a catalyst for other alternatives, not force them to completely give up...either way, in those post-apocalyptic times (maybe this is what the Mayans meant?), I'd like to give this one more shot:

https://mises.org/community/forums/p/32470/507226.aspx#507226

Conza, you said something about building more community, right?  Well, here's your chance.  Only, I'll be organizing it over here:

http://voluntaryism.freeforums.org/post378.html#p378

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I don't post here as much as I probably should, but for what it is worth, this Forum and community had a huge influence on me becoming an An-cap. This is such a great resource for Liberty, too bad it's going down...

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jmorris84 replied on Thu, Dec 20 2012 9:11 PM

I've thought about it and I think I'll just stay here until the very end. I've gotten used to manually writing in the quote blocks whenever I want to reply to someone. :)

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