Malachi, if those said statements are representive of a vast majority of people, such as the various Twitter posts on the Public Shaming Tumblr, would it not be a snapshot of the culture we live in? They are not the only ones who say/agree with those statements, a lot of people do.
whats wrong with recognizing the damage that will be done by the "justice" system? how is that a rape culture? what were they supposed to say about the victim?
Where is my word about the victim? Honestly I have none, her world was destroyed and she was only 16.
so what were the pundits supposed to say? if you couldnt think of anything to say then its hypocritical of you to look askance at the pundits for not having words for the victim.
Though I'll sympathize with the victim, not the rapists. But because we cannot form in words how we feel about the victim we have to boast the rapists?
its not a dichotomy. when did it become boastful to recognize the destructive power of incarceration? hopefully we can agree that, since there was no restitution to satisfy the victim, justice wasnt even served. I think its a good thing that people arent exactly satisfied with rhe outcome. this is an education opportunity.
Also, in what line of thinking am I putting forth anything collective. I'm sure a majority of us here can agree we do not agree/support/endorse racism or sexism (I can only hope not), yet wouldn't that be "collective"? Here's a problem of our time: rape culture. Now I'm a collectivist to be against it?
the collectivism is inherent in your characterization of the problem, not only your opposition. the problem isnt predators. the problem isnt socialized security. the problem is a culture where its ok to do bad things, meaning the problem is a hazy mess of people who dont think the way you do.
This case is a sample of rape culture, for example, the commentary of the news speakers, the court room scene, various Twitter posts sympathetic towards the boys, and blaming the girl.
lots of people dont believe the victim. I addressed the news pundits above. obviously the courtroom scene was about the perpetrators and the state, the victim was just a piece of evidence to the agents of the state. so its really about the lack of a suitable criminal justice system, isnt it?
Clearly, people think rape is not a big deal, and it's to be mad a mockery of. Do you think if these boys didn't get caught they'd feel guilty? Probably not, seeing how they took pictures and text jokes to their friends about it.
from what I hear this wasnt even the first time something like this happened in steubenville. but somehow I think they "know" that "rape" is "wrong" but did it anyway.
http://fox8.com/2013/03/17/victims-mother-this-does-not-define-my-daughter/
the most bizarre part of this thread is that it (the thread) happened here and no one has pointed out that all the villains in the case are state-sponsored, and the most heroic role was played by a bunch of hackers calling themselves "anonymous"
After further (basic) investigation I've come to the conclusion that rape culture has to do with the legal as much as the "cultural" aspects of rape which I have been discussing. Just as with a lot of feminism, what is perhaps a legitimate concern is blown out of proportion. I agree that there may be social norms and attitudes which cast sympathy onto rapists, but I think the idea that there's any legal acceptance of rape is just foolish, as is the idea that police cover-ups are any more common than other things.
Insofar as we're defining rape culture as a legal thing, Bert hasn't added any evidence to prove the existence of this in the United States. If we are talking about rape culture as acceptance of rape and undermining the act's seriousness, I think that Bert has a good point and has provided some evidence as to its existence.
Where? If anyone provided any evidence of rape culture whatsoever, it was Clayton here.
Anecdotal evidence is about as good as one is going to get in proving the attitude of society. If I say that American culture generally looks down on child murder (of American children, just to remove any militaristic garbage from the table), how would I substantiate that claim? Would anecdotal evidence of what individuals, byproducts and "parts" of that culture be a bad way to determine what much of the culture "generally" believes?
If you want to get a general idea of cultural attitudes, you should examine a population's laws, customs, and norms. It's probably best to examine its laws first, as law is tied to violence in a way that regular norms and customs are not. So you can see that while some people may look down upon poor etiquette, for example, very few people react to poor etiquette with violence, and those that do end up receiving violent reactions for their actions (I'm sure that could have been worded better but I think you know what I'm saying). In the case of rape, obviously some people are okay with it (ahem, rapists, ahem). But rape in general is illegal (let's forget state sanctioned rape for the moment). So you can see that rape is looked down upon. However, just because something is illegal doesn't mean that everyone or even most people consider it wrong, especially in a statist system, as it's very possible for the state's laws to be contrary to the general population's morality.
Norms are also very helpful for determining the general cultural attitudes, because it is another way as to how people resolve their disputes. Anecdotes do not help us with understanding general cultural attitudes as they are a case by case basis, but since we can determine laws and norms, we can learn how the people in a community or society get along and their general attitudes.
That was a little rambly, but I think it still makes sense.
@GL: And, while we're at it, let's not forget the rape culture of the police themselves... just read Grigg for innumerable examples of officers soliciting sexual favors in exchange for not ticketing (sexual favors obtained through coercion and intimidation are rape), committing roadside rape, raping victims they are responding to assist, and so on.
As has already been mentioned, rape in the military is frequent and it is well-established that reporting is extremely hazardous, often backfiring onto the victim. This should come as no surprise since reporting crimes - especially those committed by superiors - is a kind of whistle-blowing... and we know the USG's attitude about that.
It is true that the State is not the sole purveyor of sex crimes. It is also true that the State is not the only entity that behaves like a mafia and covers for its own. That is, groups of private citizens engage in this kind of behavior, as well; either turning a blind eye to sex crimes they did not participate in, or even egging them on because they were committed by one or more of "the boys". No doubt, such enclaves of criminality are morally reprehensible, even if the members of such cliques maintain the appearance of decency in every other respect.
It is also true that how we speak about human relationships can and does taint our thinking about what norms are appropriate or inappropriate. Examples of such euphemisms are "taxation" "detainee" "search warrant" "cavity search" and many more. The State is not the only entity that uses such euphemisms, nor does all euphemistic language whitewash abuse at the hands of officials only. But since we're opening this topic, let us press it to its fullest extent and let us not stop short lest we be guilty of selective condemnation or diverting attention from greater crimes in the prosecution of lesser ones.
Clayton -
@Clayton
If we talk about rape culture, it really only makes sense to talk about it in terms of rapists and rape apologists, which is exactly what you are doing. Groups of citizens that turn a blind eye are examples of apologists. When people start using rape culture to include sexual objectification, "sexist" jokes, patriarchal culture, or use it to exclude rapes of males as the feminists do, the phrase is meaningless. It offers no useful distinctions that we can use to help understand culture.
@GL: Well, let's take sexist jokes, for example. I can grant that there is room for cultural criticism and moral commentary on the demoralizing effects of telling jokes that minimize the trauma and gravity of rape, for example. Such cultural criticism is completely within bounds. But, of course, as libertarians, we distinguish between peaceful cultural criticism which employs mere words, versus legal activism and social engineering which resort to coercive means in the attempt to bring about desired ends. At this point, we're talking about something different, which is, what are the valid justifications for the use of coercion (threats and use of violence)? And the rape-culture feminists - like all other progressives and moral activists - obscure this distinction.
The only jokes I have ever heard about rape are the ones about Bubba raping some criminal in jail, either from not cooperating with the police or just because someone thought it was funny. I have never heard a blonde joke, or any joke about women, be about the subject of rape. Now, maybe this is because I live in Boston and apparently we all draw the line at telling jokes about raping women, but rape jokes seem to be only about men. Nevertheless, this feminist rape culture nonsense seems to equate blonde jokes or whatever with rape jokes. They live in a fantasy world.
Just to make sure you have at least one data point, here's one:
"I'm doing this audition for some part in some show or some shit, I don't even remember, and there's this cute girl there. We get talking and she offers me a ride, since I don't have one of my own. We get into her car and she goes 'What's your name, anyways?' I tell her my name, 'Jim Jeffries' and she says 'Hang on a sec.' She pulls out her cell phone, makes a call and goes 'Mum, I'm giving this cute guy a ride home from the studio but if something happens, his name is Jim Jeffries.' and when she hangs up I look at her and say 'Wow, you just made this rape really awkward.'" -Jim Jeffries.
The version he tells on his "Alcoholocaust" DVD is considerably longer and can be found on youtube.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would appear that the joke is that he had no intention of raping her, yet she went ahead and treated him as if he were a potential rapist.
Somehow I don't see that as, "Hey man, this blonde chick walks into a bar, and I went home with her and raped her. Isn't rape funny, man?"
The longer version of the joke has a slightly different twist at the end that might fit your description a little more closely but I'll let you make up your own mind.
Starts here @ 8:28 (couldnt figure out how to get the embeded version to start at that mark though):
Finishes at the beginning of here:
P.S. I nearly pissed myself laughing the first time I heard it so I'm probably a rape enabler.
Neo, his failure to substantiate his major claims. His definition of rape culture is mushy and unproven as existing in the US. He hasn't cited anything of substance to support his case. No numbers, nothing in the legal system, no theoretical distinctions which would prove the existance of a significant rape culture. It's typical feminist unfalsifiable bullshit.
NonAntiAnarchist, I don't believe you understand by what one means by "culture" - it has nothing to do with numbers or systems, what definition ever of cultural worldviews had to do with statistics? Culture exists in the US, so why wouldn't worldviews surrounding a certain act also exist?
Neodoxy, so far I think you're the only one who gets it when I talk of rape culture, because I'm not talking about numbers, statistics, or legal codes or any other thing; I'm talking about the worldview elements of a culture that make rape tolerated or at least projected into something comical (rape jokes, or joking about rape/raping someone) - and the topics of patriarchy, sexism, sexual objectification are areas of concern, because understanding those areas can help one understand rape culture.
If someone says the victim deserved it because she's a "drunk loose slut" or how the people at the party are making remarks about how she "looks dead" when she's drunk and unconcsious, the right thing to do would to make sure she's safe - but that was not done. She's was ridiculed in the process and ridiculed after while taken advantage of.
The following is from this article So You're Tired of Hearing About "Rape Culture" it's not the full piece, but this is generally what people mean and are gearing towards when discussing rape culture.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and though there are dozens of witnesses, no one says, “Stop.” Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and though there are dozens of witnesses, they can’t get anyone to come forward. Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and adults are informed of it, but no consequences are doled out because the boys “said nothing happened.” Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and we later find out that their coaches were “joking about it” and “took care of it.” Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and even though there is documentation of the coaching staff sweeping it under the rug, they get to keep their jobs. Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and one of the coaches involved in the cover-up threatens a reporter - saying, “You’re going to get yours. And if you don’t get yours, somebody close to you will.” – but the town is more worried about keeping their coaching talent than his integrity. Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, take pictures of the process, and it becomes a source of ridicule along social networks, whitewashing the crime with hashtags. Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and then joke about it on video – saying, ““She is so raped,” “They raped her quicker than Mike Tyson!”, “They raped her more than the Duke lacrosse team!”, and she was “deader than Trayvon Martin.” – while everyone else laughs. Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and the town is more concerned with preserving their football program than the fact that their children are attacking others without remorse. Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and the mainstream media laments the fact that their “promising futures” have been dashed by their crimes – as though THEY are the victims.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and though there are dozens of witnesses, no one says, “Stop.”
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and though there are dozens of witnesses, they can’t get anyone to come forward.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and adults are informed of it, but no consequences are doled out because the boys “said nothing happened.”
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and we later find out that their coaches were “joking about it” and “took care of it.”
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and even though there is documentation of the coaching staff sweeping it under the rug, they get to keep their jobs.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and one of the coaches involved in the cover-up threatens a reporter - saying, “You’re going to get yours. And if you don’t get yours, somebody close to you will.” – but the town is more worried about keeping their coaching talent than his integrity.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, take pictures of the process, and it becomes a source of ridicule along social networks, whitewashing the crime with hashtags.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and then joke about it on video – saying, ““She is so raped,” “They raped her quicker than Mike Tyson!”, “They raped her more than the Duke lacrosse team!”, and she was “deader than Trayvon Martin.” – while everyone else laughs.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and the town is more concerned with preserving their football program than the fact that their children are attacking others without remorse.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and the mainstream media laments the fact that their “promising futures” have been dashed by their crimes – as though THEY are the victims.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and even though she’s been through enough, the 16 year old victim’s name is shared on national television. Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, but because it happens at a party where both sexes were drinking, complete strangers on the internet argue ferociously that she is to blame for being attacked. Click to zoom. Warning: it will make you sick. Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and members of the community issue death threats against the victim. Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and it is documented across social media channels, and the media informs us that the takeaway is to be more careful about what we post to social media. Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and when a cover-up is exposed by a group of hackers, we call them “terrorists” and the culpable “victims.” Yeah, I’m talking about Steubenville. Tired of hearing about it? Ok, let’s talk about something else. Rape culture is when the Steubenville is far from the first instance of athletic clubs covering up sexual violence allegations. See: Sandusky, Michigan State 2010, Arizona State 2008, University of Colarado 2006, University of Iowa 2008, Lincoln High School 2012, University of Montana 2012, Marquette 2011, plus this research (and there’s more to find if you dig) Rape culture is when universities across the country do not report rape to the police, but handle the matter via “honor boards” - ultimately shielding perpetrators from criminal consequences. Rape culture is when universities threaten to expel a student for speaking out about her rape (without ever identifying her attacker) because it’s harassment to talk about her suffering. Rape culture is when a comedian has a long history of making jokes about rape and sexual assault, is defended from backlash by the comic community, and doesn’t lose his fan base.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and even though she’s been through enough, the 16 year old victim’s name is shared on national television.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, but because it happens at a party where both sexes were drinking, complete strangers on the internet argue ferociously that she is to blame for being attacked.
Click to zoom. Warning: it will make you sick.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and members of the community issue death threats against the victim.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and it is documented across social media channels, and the media informs us that the takeaway is to be more careful about what we post to social media.
Rape culture is when a group of athletes rape a young girl, and when a cover-up is exposed by a group of hackers, we call them “terrorists” and the culpable “victims.”
Yeah, I’m talking about Steubenville. Tired of hearing about it? Ok, let’s talk about something else.
Rape culture is when the Steubenville is far from the first instance of athletic clubs covering up sexual violence allegations. See: Sandusky, Michigan State 2010, Arizona State 2008, University of Colarado 2006, University of Iowa 2008, Lincoln High School 2012, University of Montana 2012, Marquette 2011, plus this research (and there’s more to find if you dig)
Rape culture is when universities across the country do not report rape to the police, but handle the matter via “honor boards” - ultimately shielding perpetrators from criminal consequences.
Rape culture is when universities threaten to expel a student for speaking out about her rape (without ever identifying her attacker) because it’s harassment to talk about her suffering.
Rape culture is when a comedian has a long history of making jokes about rape and sexual assault, is defended from backlash by the comic community, and doesn’t lose his fan base.
As well as If You Need More Evidence of Rape Culture, We've Got A Good One For You.
Stork: Hey Payback, how do you stop five black dudes from raping a white chick? Payback: Fuck you, Stork. Stork: Throw them a basketball.
Payback: Fuck you, Stork.
Stork: Throw them a basketball.
the quote is from full metal jacket but I think the joke is older than that.
lol, again the butt of the joke isn't the woman but someone else...in this case black men.
http://www.joke-pages.com/jokes/Dirty_Jokes/2381_Voodoo-Penis/
This working man is going away for a business trip for about 2-3 weeks. He realizes his wife, who is really horny, will need something to keep her occupied when she feels "Horny." So the day before he leaves he goes to a sex toy shop to find her something. He goes through everything and looks throughly but just can't find the right thing he's looking for. So he goes up to the manager and says "Listen, I need the best thing you got, for a very horny women." The manager looks to the right and left very suspiciously and says "I got just the thing for you. Follow me." The manager walks down to the end of the counter and reaches under the counter and pulls out a long wooden narrow box. The manager tells the man this "This is a voodoo dildo. All your wife has to do is open the box and says "voodoo penis my pussy." As soon as she says that it will pleasure her as long as she wants. All she has to do to make it stop is say "Voodoo Penis Box." Then it will go right back to its box. The manager tells the man these instructions are important and he has to tell his wife these. So the man pays a pretty penny for the dildo and leaves the store. The next day before he leaves he gives his wife the box and tells her the instructions. She seems not too excited about it, but she takes it anyway. He kisses her goodbye and leaves on his trip. About a week or so later his wife is all alone at home and she's starting to feel very horny. So she puts on something sexy, and grabs the phone. She starts looking through her little black book for names of men to pleasure her, but as she is doing that, she spots the box. She remembers about the dildo and decides to give it a shot. She brings the box on over to the bed and opens it up. The dildo glows and her eyes get huge. She says "Voodoo penis my pussy." So the voodoo penis jumps from the box and starts pleasuring her. Not too hard, not too soft. After a little while, the women is pleasured. But she can't figure out how to make it stop. She tries "Stop" and "Quit" but nothing is working. So she struggles and gets some clothes on and decides to drive to the Hospital. She gets in her car and just speeds and rushes to get there. As soon as she's almost there, she is pulled over by an officer. He comes to the window and says "Miss, why are you driving so fast?" She struggles to talk but she spits this out "Voodoo..penis.....in...my pussy." The officer just laughs at that and smiles and says "Yeah right, voodoo penis my ass."
I made a post (yesterday) and the moderators need to approve it.
I am sympathetic to portions of both Bert's and Clayton's posts on the first page.
This brings back the idea of what I call the "bitch-mind" (otherwise called the 'bootlicker mentality') which is the ethical mindset symptomatic of patriarchy/macho culture/kyriarchy. The bitch-mind is expressed through sadism and schadenfreude, egotism, exultation of violence, militarism, lack of empathy and social skills, narcissism, an extreme form of the 'work ethic', hatred for those seen as 'weak', and obedience to the higher, stronger superior, leading to a kind of servile masochism as well.
It arises in its most blatant forms in the prison system (gangs and the Drug War) and military, but also manifests itself in places like the TSA and in many colleges. Its most inconspicious variety arguably is in the educational system, especially college, where the fraternity caste system weeds out the future members of the upper levels of society and the elite.
The bitch-mind believes in hierarchy and might makes right above all. Of course, might makes right is a myth (those at the top of the ladder rarely battle with one another), but a useful one the elites use. It needs defined, controllable castes in society and needs expendable servants (bitches) to sustain itself so the elites can play. These are mainly gathered from the lower classes, where macho culture is exploited easily, whether it be the army, the police force, or the prison system and gangs that sustain the Drug War. This occurs mainly through the militarization of society, civic and civil.
Rape culture is just one facet of the bitch-mind.
Bert's post is now up.
The atoms tell the atoms so, for I never was or will but atoms forevermore be.
Yours sincerely,
Physiocrat
Well I'm glad you let his post through, but to be honest, I'm not surprised he didn't bother addressing any criticisms that we've made.
The bitch-mind believes in hierarchy and might makes right above all. Of course, might makes right is a myth (the top of the ladder rarely battle with one another), but a useful one the elites use. It needs defined, controllable castes in society and needs expendable servants (bitches) to sustain itself so the elites can play. These are mainly gathered from the lower classes, where macho culture is exploited easily, whether it be the army, the police force, or the prison system and gangs that sustain the Drug War. This occurs mainly through the militarization of society, civic and civil. Rape culture is just one facet of the bitch-mind.
LOL. So you come up with something negative and immediately think to give it the name of specifically the female in species of dog and many other species of animals? How very sensitive of you. What is more you actually do this as you critique machismo (exaggarated, posturing maleness)? Residual misognysm much? Unwashed, unintelligent lower class males are bitches? How ironic in someone upholding the idea of a "rape culture". Maybe you need to think this over a little. Or what's next? You're gonna give us your mind on Spic-manners and Yid-schemes?
+++++++++1 Cortes
I like what Cortes has to say. "Rape culture" is probably just a symptom of how shitty people are in general nowadays, which I especially see in the younger generation ( because I'm in my low 20s, not because other age groups aren't just as shitty).
Marko, I think you misunderstood me.
It refers to the idiom 'bitch' that has more or less become widely accepted in US (maybe other Western Anglo countries) popular culture to mean 'unter'/'inferior'/'subordinate'. This is much in the same way 'slut' or 'whore' have become catch-all terms for women with active sex lives, although that word is far older of course. It's along the same lines as 'slut-shaming'.
Hope I got the point across.
The only jokes I have ever heard about rape are the ones about Bubba raping some criminal in jail, either from not cooperating with the police or just because someone thought it was funny. I have never heard a blonde joke, or any joke about women, be about the subject of rape.
It refers to the idiom 'bitch' that has more or less become widely accepted in US (maybe other Western Anglo countries) popular culture to mean 'unter'/'inferior'/'subordinate'.
I'm not sure what your point is. What do you mean?
He's obviously saying that the term "bitch" should be used strictly in referring to female dogs and should not be used outside circles on animal breeding and dog training. To use it in any other manner is inaccurate, offensive, and crude.
So setting the crime itself aside, what fundamentally is the difference between what happened here and what happened in the video from Steubenville?
Ok, but I still don't understand his first response.
Does he think my term 'bitch-mind', referring to the use of 'bitch' is offensive? That wasn't the intention here.
My point was that I chose that term specifically because it has become so widespread in contemporary language, and there's a lot of interesting psychology behind its current use.
People who use the term 'slut-shaming' aren't using it in a derogatory manner towards the woman called a slut. People who call themselves 'genderqueer' aren't hating themselves by using 'queer' as a descriptive term. A person who quotes 'nigger' in Huckleberry Finn isn't being a racist. The Ralph Bakshi animated movie Coonskin wasn't being racist by using that title.
I'm not sure what the problem is.
Cracked.com and it's rape culture.
Then, clearly, you have not spent enough time in Room 101, Cortes. Remember, two and two make five if they say it does.
People who use the term 'slut-shaming' aren't using it in a derogatory manner towards the woman called a slut.
And I am against the increasing trend of institutionalized sociopathy, where people are taught either through peers or from higher-ups to refer to their perceived inferiors as their 'bitch'.
Your general reaction is still giving me a big question mark. I have no idea why you're writing any of that.
The prototype for the above subordination? Being a kid in the presence of adults (especially parents).
The news report I saw on Steubenville confuses me for a number of reasons:
1. I don't think of it as "rape" unless the aggressor is employing their genitals. Who is pushing for more general definitions for this word?
2. Apparently the law says touching someone who is "impaired" is rape. What if they have 1 beer? Or what if they have the sniffles? Isn't that "impaired"?
3. If two people are impaired, say drunk, and are touching each other, are they each committing rape on one another? This seems to be absurd.
I think impaired people can make bad decisions, like getting behind a wheel of a car. When they make other bad decisions like consenting, they have to face the consequences. I also think (based on witnessing parties where people try to draw on each other with magic marker pens) that a concious person can be extremely impaired and still audibly protest and be combative. Of course, a truly unconcious person can't give consent. The distinction between concious and unconcious is sharp.
In short, I'd have an easier time understanding the story if people used a more traditional definition for "rape" and if the law and the reporters focused on conciousness, rather than "impairment".
I also wonder if people refrained from aiding the victim because they were worried about legal problems affecting them, like "minors in possession of alcohol" or something.
I have to say all my information about the case comes from the wikipedia timeline section, so it can be highly biased.
Translating all the typical pseudo-neutral bullshit, here's what I got from it:
1. A high school girl got really drunk with a bunch of high school boys.
2. Group sexual activities ensued.
3. Pictures were taken and published.
4. She woke up naked with a bunch of guys and lacking any memory of the previous night.
If no other substantial fact is missing, there can be hardly any criminal case here. Underage drinking perhaps, and probably the whole thing of posting photos online could be considered substance for a law suit, but not rape.
There is a large difference between waking up with a headache in an unfamiliar bedroom/basement, and being found barely conscious in a dumpster, with all sorts of bruises and broken ribs and internal bleedings and overflowing multiple kinds of semen, some of things people picture when they hear the word "gang rape".
If she cannot remember being forced or abused, and there are no signs of violence in her body, and there were no witnesses to the abuse, the boys must be presumed innocent (of rape at least).
What seems to be happening is the whole idea that whenever there's a rape accusation, everyone involved is presumed guilty from the onset and must prove their innocence, and not the other way around.
Perhaps because it's easier to throw a few teenage boys in juvenille hall without proof than to accept that teenage girls could actually behave like that.
That's the real "rape culture".
Like in 2006 with that Lacrosse team from Duke University.
They got their names published and were crucified by the media for a long time, and then they discovered the prosecutor had forged evidence, but at this time their reputations were already destroyed.
Again, there might be other facts I'm ignoring here. I hope so.