Was George Bush CIA Director during the JFK Presidency or wasn't he?
If yes, is there any hard proof showing this?
No, he was CIA director under President Ford.
CIA director under Kennedy and LBJ (until 1965) was John McCone.
he was not DCI until 1976 i think.
you can probably look at any biography of him. he was only the DCI for like two years, I think. he was in Congress and the ambassador for China for a while.
He was a CIA asset during JFKs presidency in virtue of his oil company, Zapata. The Bay of Pigs was operationally known as "Operation Zapata"
"He was a CIA asset during JFKs presidency in virtue of his oil company, Zapata. The Bay of Pigs was operationally known as "Operation Zapata""
Is there any hard proof to support that he was a CIA asset during JFK presidency?
Egh, CIA doesn't declassify everything, but there is no doubt about it.
here are some allegations of people who might have known: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zapata_Corporation#Allegations_by_former_CIA_staff
http://whowhatwhy.com/2007/01/07/cia-bush-senior-oil-venture/
depends on what you mean by "hard proof." I wasnt aware that anyone had suggested that he wasnt, as herman walker bush's cia career is basically considered fact.
The Bay of Pigs invasion was actually the brainchild of Allen Dulles and was one of the reasons JFK forced him to resign just months after taking office.
The other is because, plainly put, JFK was fixated with the Israeli nuclear program and wanted someone from the Atomic Energy Commission in the CIA to back him up in forcing Israel to accept US inspections (JFK was smart enough to understand calling the UN into cause would have meant having France stonewall the whole operation since the French and the Israeli had extremely close ties in that period). That man was McCone.
McCone resigned in 1965, apparently disgusted by both JFK and LBJ. Kennedy had authorized the 1963 coup against Diem against McCone's advice and LBJ had decided to look the other way regarding the Israel issue.
Bush appointment by Ford was curious to say the least. Not only he was apparently unpopular in Washington, but he had been the head of the National Republican Committee but he was well known for being a diehard Nixon supporter and was considered "too partisan" to be a CIA Director. Apparently Bush attempted to "soften up" President-Elect Carter to remain in this position but Carter opted for Stansfield Turner, one of his classmates from the Naval Academy.
Hower if you dig deeper, you'll find one Bush's early business partners (a Thomas Devine) was a fully blown CIA agent who had recieved "leave" to go into private business. In short he was assigned to an investment banking firm which managed various CIA financial activities.
Kakugo, what is your opinion as to the involvement of lyndon johnson in the murder of jack kennedy?
The CIA itself was a brainchild of Allen Dulles.
Bush appointment by Ford was curious to say the least. Not only he was apparently unpopular in Washington, but he had been the head of the National Republican Committee but he was well known for being a diehard Nixon supporter and was considered "too partisan" to be a CIA Director.
"Rubbers Bush"? Naaahhhh, he wasn't partisan. (sarcasm). he was simply 'liked' by the Establishment. Zapata was used to launder CIA drug and gun money into the US economy (some goes to the ESF, but some also goes to private banks) and as private CIA palnts simliar to the MI6-BP relationship in Iran in the early 50s. The drugs were distributed by lbj and bobbi baker's business partners at hotels, 'brothels', and casinos in NV, TX, LA, AL, and FL. And I don't think Ford was really calling any of the shots; i doubt it was up to him to select Bush for CIA.
From what I can tell, I know you didn't ask me Malachi, JFK was done in by the Cuban dissidents that were being handled by the CIA. I think thing after the Bay of Pigs those members of the Cuban Student Directorate (DRE group) took the CIA resources they had access to through George Joaniddes (the chief PSYOP officer of Miami who also handled the DRE; he was giving them 50 thousand dollars per month in 1962) and setup LHO (since they knew him, fought him, and debated him on TV). This was covered up by all of the US security Establishment since investigations into the CIA relationship with them would have exposed Baker, Johnson, Bush, Dulles, and Nixon (who oversaw the CIA assassination program OP40 in congress). However, I doubt that they planned it altogether. I think the DRE was getting revenge on JFK for the losses they sustained during the Bay of Pigs and the leaders of the CIA allowed them to do it.
Dulles had to step down from the CIA, but he stayed a director of the CFR after that.
JFK had a list of enemies a mile long, from the CIA (because of the Diem affair they didn't approve of) to the Israeli (because of JFK's fixation with their nuclear program). Pick whoever you want: they all had valid motivations.
One thing you probably already know is Gerald Ford was a key member of the Warren Commission. Ford personally altered the final report in a subtle but decisive fashion by changing the sentence on the place where the bullet had entered President Kennedy's body. Ford's minor alteration convinced the commission a single bullet had killed JFK and severly wounded Governor John Connally, effectively proclaiming Lee Harvey Oswald as the sole shooter.
And there's another thing. Everybody knows Lee Harvey Oswald arrived in the USSR in 1959 and asked political asylum the next day. Oswald was of enormous interest to the KGB, so much they devoted huge resources to keep him under 24 hours a day surveillance. A very thick dossier (six volumes) surfaced in the '90s and parts of it were published in the Izvetzia newspaper. The dossier concluded Oswald was of "no interest whatsoever" to the KGB.
Workers at the Gorizont Radio Factory where Oswald worked for two years told KGB agents Oswald, despite not being a particularly productive worker, was given a 40% "productivity bonus" mere weeks after starting working there, followed by an 800 rubles a month prize as "living example of the socialist way of life". He was also given an apartment just two months after applying for it while average waiting time was about two years.
The KGB agents who compiled the dossier seemed at loss to explain why Oswald was granted such privileges: surely the order had not come from them but "somebody" had taken the American's case to heart. They were even more at loss to explain another detail (in light of later events): Oswald had joined a local hunting club and bought himself a shotgun. His hunting partners were carefully "debriefed" after each expedition and they all agreed on one thing: Oswald was "a very poor shot" barely able to hit any target with his shotgun.
Final detail: despite his relatively high wage (by Soviet standards) and living like a hobo, Oswald had no money to buy himself and his family tickets for the US when he decided to leave the USSR. His mother wrote him (and the KGB dutifully copied this letter) she could not afford to send him any money. Who gave him the money to come back? Curiously enough the highly detailed KGB dossier is silent on this point.
The KGB reopened the dossier after the Kennedy Assassination and some memos affixed to it say the KGB could not believe a man like Oswald was capable of planning and executing the Kennedy assassination.
The Soviet connection has an intriguing conclusion. Eight weeks before the Kennedy assassination, Oswald travelled to the Soviet Embassy in Mexico City to ask permission to return to the USSR. The CIA had a surveillance team which was tasked with snapping pictures of all those who entered the embassy and sending them back to Langley for identification. And when Oswald made his visit, this team was "off duty"...
"depends on what you mean by "hard proof." I wasnt aware that anyone had suggested that he wasnt, as herman walker bush's cia career is basically considered fact."
There is a difference in "Bush had a CIA career" and Bush was in the CIA when JFK was president.
Just because we might have hard proof that Bush was in the CIA, doesn't mean we have hard proof that he was in the CIA when JFK was president.
It might be "a fact" that Bush was in the CIA. But that doesn't specificy a time period.
limitgov, do you know how to do research yourself? you ask questions that aren't particularly hard to verify, then combat the answers that are given...
"limitgov, do you know how to do research yourself? you ask questions that aren't particularly hard to verify, then combat the answers that are given..."
I do apologize if I come off that way. I've gotten down to this question...."was bush a cia asset during jfk presidency"?
i've googled and cannot find a solid answer to this question. not a reliable source, anyway. wiki is not a good enough source for this.
you won't find the evidence that you are looking for. Follow the references on wiki...that is the best you're gonna do. Or you could scower the Center for Intelligence Studies on the cia website? You might find their scholoars have mentioned it?
http://tomflocco.com/fs/FbiMemoPhotoLinkBushJfk.htm
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/11/16/was-george-h-w-bush-involved-in-the-assassination-of-jfk/
nice links malachi....
what say the rest of you to that? the photo is sort of distorted and some could say that might not be him....but a memo that says George Bush was a CIA person from that time period is pretty hard to dispute.
the picture is certainly NOT substantial "proof" that (a) it is even GHWB and, further, (b) that GHWB had personally anything to do with it. Like I said many times, ghwB was, at least, a private sector CIA business asset.
"the picture is certainly NOT substantial "proof" that (a) it is even GHWB and, further, (b) that GHWB had personally anything to do with it. Like I said many times, ghwB was, at least, a private sector CIA business asset."
i agree,,,the picture isn't proof....its too blurry....but the memo....if its real....that is a smoking gun.
a smoking gun for what!?!?!? What do you think you can prove, other than he was related to CIA, with that?
"a smoking gun for what!"
A smoking gun that he was in the CIA when JFK was president.
After the war he studied economics at Yale University. In 1951 he establishedBush-Overby Oil Development, an oil-drilling business in Texas. Later he joined forces with Thomas J. Devine, a former CIA officer, to create Zapata Oil. Other major investors included Prescott Bush and Bill Liedtke. In 1954, Zapata Off-Shore Company was formed as a subsidiary of Zapata Oil, with George H. W. Bush as president of the new company. According to Bush's autobiography, Eugene Meyer, the publisher of the Washington Post, and his son-in-law, Philip Graham, were major investors in the new company. Zapata Corporation split in 1959 into independent companies Zapata Petroleum and Zapata Off-Shore, headed by Bush, who moved his offices from Midland to Houston. In 1960, Bush created a new company, Perforaciones Marinas del Golfo (Permargo) with Edwin Pauley of Pan American Petroleum. Pauley is alleged to have had close ties to Allen Dulles. During the Second World War Pauley aided the Dulles brothers former clients in shifting Nazi assets out of Europe. In 1963, Zapata Petroleum merged with South Penn Oil and other companies to become Pennzoil. In his book Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty (2009) Russ Baker argues: "For Devine, who would have been about twenty-seven years old at the time, to resign at such a young age, so soon after the CIA had spent a great deal of time and money training him, was, at minimum, highly unusual. It would turn out, however, that Devine had a special relationship allowing him to come and go from the agency, enabling him to do other things without really leaving its employ." Thomas J. Devine later rejoined the CIA under non-official cover (NOC) status on 12th June 1963, as a covert commercial asset for Project WUBRINY/LPDICTUM. Joan Mellen points out that: "This CIA document reveals that Thomas Devine had informed George Bush of a CIA project with the cryptonym WUBRINY/LPDICTUM. It involved CIA proprietary commercial operations in foreign countries." Mellen goes onto argue that this links George Bush to George de Mohrenschildt and Lee Harvey Oswald. "WUBRINY involved Haitian operations, in which, the documents reveal, a participant was George de Mohrenschildt, the Dallas CIA handler of – Lee Oswald." Russ Baker interviewed Devine in 2008 and he refused to say whether he was involved with WUBRINY. However, another CIA officer, Gale Allen, confirmed in another interview that Devine did take part in the project. There is strong evidence that Bush was working for the CIA during this period. Bush also provided information to the Federal Bureau of Investigation on a proposed assassination attempt by James Parrott ofJohn F. Kennedy. On 29th November, 1963, Bush informed J. Edgar Hoover about a conspiracy involving a group of pro-Castro Cubans in Miami.
In 1954, Zapata Off-Shore Company was formed as a subsidiary of Zapata Oil, with George H. W. Bush as president of the new company. According to Bush's autobiography, Eugene Meyer, the publisher of the Washington Post, and his son-in-law, Philip Graham, were major investors in the new company.
Zapata Corporation split in 1959 into independent companies Zapata Petroleum and Zapata Off-Shore, headed by Bush, who moved his offices from Midland to Houston. In 1960, Bush created a new company, Perforaciones Marinas del Golfo (Permargo) with Edwin Pauley of Pan American Petroleum. Pauley is alleged to have had close ties to Allen Dulles. During the Second World War Pauley aided the Dulles brothers former clients in shifting Nazi assets out of Europe.
In 1963, Zapata Petroleum merged with South Penn Oil and other companies to become Pennzoil. In his book Family of Secrets: The Bush Dynasty (2009) Russ Baker argues: "For Devine, who would have been about twenty-seven years old at the time, to resign at such a young age, so soon after the CIA had spent a great deal of time and money training him, was, at minimum, highly unusual. It would turn out, however, that Devine had a special relationship allowing him to come and go from the agency, enabling him to do other things without really leaving its employ."
Thomas J. Devine later rejoined the CIA under non-official cover (NOC) status on 12th June 1963, as a covert commercial asset for Project WUBRINY/LPDICTUM. Joan Mellen points out that: "This CIA document reveals that Thomas Devine had informed George Bush of a CIA project with the cryptonym WUBRINY/LPDICTUM. It involved CIA proprietary commercial operations in foreign countries."
Mellen goes onto argue that this links George Bush to George de Mohrenschildt and Lee Harvey Oswald. "WUBRINY involved Haitian operations, in which, the documents reveal, a participant was George de Mohrenschildt, the Dallas CIA handler of – Lee Oswald." Russ Baker interviewed Devine in 2008 and he refused to say whether he was involved with WUBRINY. However, another CIA officer, Gale Allen, confirmed in another interview that Devine did take part in the project.
There is strong evidence that Bush was working for the CIA during this period. Bush also provided information to the Federal Bureau of Investigation on a proposed assassination attempt by James Parrott ofJohn F. Kennedy. On 29th November, 1963, Bush informed J. Edgar Hoover about a conspiracy involving a group of pro-Castro Cubans in Miami.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbushG.htm
post pending moderation, click hea
Thomas J. Devine later rejoined the CIA under non-official cover (NOC) status on 12th June 1963, as a covert commercial asset for Project WUBRINY/LPDICTUM. Joan Mellen points out that: "This CIA document reveals that Thomas Devine had informed George Bush of a CIA project with the cryptonym WUBRINY/LPDICTUM. It involved CIA proprietary commercial operations in foreign countries." Mellen goes onto argue that this links George Bush to George de Mohrenschildt and Lee Harvey Oswald. "WUBRINY involved Haitian operations, in which, the documents reveal, a participant was George de Mohrenschildt, the Dallas CIA handler of – Lee Oswald." Russ Baker interviewed Devine in 2008 and he refused to say whether he was involved with WUBRINY. However, another CIA officer, Gale Allen, confirmed in another interview that Devine did take part in the project. There is strong evidence that Bush was working for the CIA during this period. Bush also provided information to the Federal Bureau of Investigation on a proposed assassination attempt by James Parrott of John F. Kennedy. On 29th November, 1963, Bush informed J. Edgar Hoover about a conspiracy involving a group of pro-Castro Cubans in Miami.
There is strong evidence that Bush was working for the CIA during this period. Bush also provided information to the Federal Bureau of Investigation on a proposed assassination attempt by James Parrott of John F. Kennedy. On 29th November, 1963, Bush informed J. Edgar Hoover about a conspiracy involving a group of pro-Castro Cubans in Miami.
highly suspect. I doubt this is real information. I found nothing on that "CIA project."
Have you guys seen "Barry and the boys from Dallas"?
in any case, zapata petroleum provides an indisputable link. and once you start working for the cia you can never be trusted again.
Pretty much. If his "tip" to the police was true....then he is pointing to another CIA operation (The anti-castro cuban exiles- the DRE group). One that was headed by G. Joannides, the chief psyop officer in Miami at the time. I don't buy anything in that article, but that really trips me up.