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Sucessionist movement possible in the US?

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al gore the idiot Posted: Fri, Oct 3 2008 6:12 PM

If the economy ends up being Great Depression II, do you think we will have another attempt at sucession in the US, just like during the Civil War? I can imagine citizens wanting out of the ever oppresive government.

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No.   Most people are sheep.  They will continue voting for the charlatans long after they have destroyed the money and crippled the economy.

No, next year, the new President will launch a new war, with a draft, and it will be imperialism as usual.

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In the near future, I think a new party will gain major support in this country. Unfortunately, I think this new party would probably be communistic or fascist.

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You mean these two:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GOP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States)

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

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vertesi replied on Sat, Oct 4 2008 2:13 AM

lol

 

What about this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_(independence_movement)

There's a lot of talk about this stuff in Canada too - the Western provinces are pretty alienated from their Eastern government.  So for instance, in the Vancouver Sun they have sections for International, National, Local, and CASCADIA.  Cascadia meaning anything west of Alberta, and north of about San Francisco.  Politically, I know that BC and Alberta just signed an independent free trade agreement, and they're looking for the same with Washington and Oregon.

Hey, I'd be for it.  Even knowing that Cascadia would have a domestically very interventionist government, at least it wouldn't be pulling this imperialist BS.  Plus, with the founding of a new country you get all sorts of opportunity for big change... like using a backed currency. *hope*

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Well there's the FSP but that's not a secessionist movement.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

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banned replied on Sat, Oct 4 2008 6:11 AM

Parts of it are.

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I don't know much about it I just remembered hearing they were using the political means.

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"

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That Cascadia stuff is interesting, but as someone who has lived East and West, BC and Alberta, it's always been my impression that the West uses stuff like this to blackmail Ontario, just like Quebec does.

I'm fully for independent states, Canada is far too large a federal body for her population and landmass.  But I wouldn't count on it happening.  There is nothing independent about Canada, it is just a subsidiary of the United States and England.

The thing about secession talk is that if a person is not ready to secede personally, if they aren't ready to resist themselves, then the grander idea of millions deciding to secede is just a dream.

Btw, does anyone really believe the most resource rich and beautiful part of Canada will split off without bloodshed?  lol

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Sage replied on Sat, Oct 4 2008 10:55 AM

Hoppe thinks that secession is the best strategy. He says that secession at the county level is more promising than the state level, so he's not that big on the FSP.

Check out this great article.

AnalyticalAnarchism.net - The Positive Political Economy of Anarchism

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Sage:

Hoppe thinks that secession is the best strategy. He says that secession at the county level is more promising than the state level, so he's not that big on the FSP.

Check out this great article.

Hoppe's opposition to the FSP seems counter-intuitive, as increasing the population of libertarians, whom certainly take the idea of succession seriously, in a given state, would increase the chances of being able to execute said succession of a single county, rather than without any FSP at all.

I think the county with the most radical members of the FSP (I forget which county...) would be a possible candidate for succession, specifically if it is nearby or on the coast.

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MacFall replied on Sun, Oct 5 2008 8:59 PM

Nitro - I believe you are thinking of Manchester county, especially the Keene area.

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Well I think a Bourbon succession is far-fetched, but a Habsburg succession might be possible.

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Kakugo replied on Mon, Oct 6 2008 10:55 AM

I may not share some of his views but I personally believe Gore Vidal to be an extremely intelligent person. When the NeoCons and Israelis were aggressively pushing for a war against Iran he clearly told ina radio interview that the Persian people had nothing to fear from the US. When asked why, he clearly said something along the lines of "the country is broke; we simply have no money to wage another war". Of course he told this in a much better way but you get the idea.

Skip to another very intelligent man and gifted writer, T.S. Elliot. His celebrated poem The Hollow Men ends with this famous line: This is the way the world ends/Not with a bang, but a whimper.

Why am I quoting these two authors? Simple: because they are both telling the truth. There will be no need for secession simply because the Nation-State as we know it is chocking itself to death and will fall to pieces like a gigantic corpse. The US, spending itself into oblivion and Europe, consuming its own vital energy at an accelerating pace, make two very fine examples. The Roman Empire is also another fine example, mainly because it did not fall to pieces because of external pressure, as we are often told, but from the inside through increased sepnding, inflation, destruction of civil rights etc. It has often been said that when the Franks marched into Roman Gallia the cities threw open their gates and the clergy elevated many praises to God for delivering the people from the rotting Roman Empire. Even the half-naked, heretical Franks were better than the greedy and morally bankrupt Roman rulers. Need I say more? Learn history, it is every bit as useful as economics.

Together we go unsung... together we go down with our people
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The corpse of the Roman empire fed the Byzantine empire for a long time.  Nation States may fall, but despots are always in great supply.

"When you're young you worry about people stealing your ideas, when you're old you worry that they won't." - David Friedman
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Natalie replied on Tue, Oct 7 2008 2:54 PM

There's no point if the revolutionaries will still want to form a government after they succede as Americans did.

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

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asusenior:

If the economy ends up being Great Depression II, do you think we will have another attempt at sucession in the US, just like during the Civil War? I can imagine citizens wanting out of the ever oppresive government.

 

If Great Depression 2.0 is at hand, then you can bet the majority of Americans will be calling for New Deal 2.0. President McBama is sure to oblidge.

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nameless replied on Tue, Oct 7 2008 11:52 PM

Agreed.  New Deal made about as much sense as catching the flu to "cure" a cold.

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Natalie replied on Mon, Oct 13 2008 2:11 PM

nameless:

Agreed.  New Deal made about as much sense as catching the flu to "cure" a cold.

Yes, but unfortunately many people think differently.

If I hear not allowed much oftener; said Sam, I'm going to get angry.

J.R.R.Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings

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katja328 replied on Mon, Oct 13 2008 2:26 PM

I wish Texas would seced. It seems that I am not the only one thinking, wishing, hoping for it and even saying it out loud.

Sometimes "majority" simply means that all the fools are on the same side

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